Dust Monkey
New member
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...d-beating.html
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/...ng/#cnnSTCText
http://www.ktla.com/news/local/ktla-...,7041275.story
End of Chase
“There is a reason you separate military and police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.” (Borrowed a quote from a line in BSG, I believe it is apt to this discussion)
We all remember the video of the El Monte Police officer kicking a compliant suspect in the head at gunpoint. We had a discussion about it that was locked down due to personal attacks by some members, including me. This will not happen in this thread. If it does, I will assure you that a MOD will shut it down post haste and deal with the people who can't discuss a topic without attacking the poster. (emphasis added by Antipitas)
I am ex military police/investigations and served in a civilian police department in Texas. Total LE experience just shy of 14 years.
The El Monte incident was not the only incident in recent news to attract my attention. There were 5 Alabama Officers fired after a video surfaced showing them beating an unconscious suspect after a chase. By some reports this video is over a year old and was viewed by several LE supervisors, several in the LE community and Prosecuting Attorneys. Yet not one of them thought something was wrong until the trial. During the trial, the Prosecuting Attorney did not have his edited copy so he asked the defense to borrow their copy. The current Prosecuting Attorney had not seen the entire tape, it was a surprise. Think about that. 5 officers beating the hell out of an unconscious suspect, not a threat to anyone, maybe in need of medical attention at the time himself, not one person thought that this might be wrong. Our Constitution either means something or it does not. If one persons rights are abused, criminals included, we all suffer for it. Those abuses that begin on criminals, end up on the law abiding citizen.
Higher ups in several departments involved saw this video, and no one scratched their head and said, um, wait a minute. It took a year to surface. That folks is sad and alarming at the same time.
These officers were fired, and I believe they need to be charged and prosecuted for several crimes that IMO they are guilty of under color of law. Same with the El Monte Officer, another report has yet another El Monte officer striking the same suspect, but video did not capture it. That kick he gave to the suspect on the ground did not serve any LE purpose. None at all. In the past few days I have had the time to speak with some old friends, some retired LE some current, and all of them agree on what a “distraction blow” is. And they all agree that you never should deliver one, alone, and holding a suspect at gunpoint. Now I believe both of these instances are a result of 2 things. End of chase syndrome and the growing militant behavior/training of today’s peace officers.
The militant attitude that is all consuming in today’s LE is scary. Police should not act like soldiers. Soldiers are trained to kill, period. They are trained to seek out an enemy and kill. They have that mindset instilled during basic training and advanced training. In police schools across the country, that same mindset is being taught. And this is where the two jobs, military and police, clash. A police officers job is not to kill an enemy. It is to prevent crime and arrest those who are a danger to the populace, and to do that while respecting established laws and the civil rights of the population, that also includes the civil rights of the suspect/criminal.
Police are not soldiers in a war. There is not a war going on in any state where the police need to be militant. If there were, you would here about multiple officers being killed by criminals nightly on every news network. So I don’t want to hear any BS about “it’s a war out there”. I was a cop when the war on drugs was started, and it was BS then, and its BS now.
End of chase syndrome is defined as: police beatings like this have no logical explanation why they happen, some cops have described a feeling of excitement during a high speed pursuit. This feeling now has a name. It is called High-Speed Pursuit Syndrome. High-Speed Syndrome is described as a mix between fear, excitement, and adrenaline. This syndrome cause the officer to vent all these emotions on the suspect at the end of the pursuit
It is my opinion that the militant attitudes and training only aggravate this syndrome to the nth degree.
Some folks can’t handle being in LE. I now work in a dangerous industry, Oil and Gas exploration. I know what whenever I step on a location I could be killed. H2S gas, well kick, explosion are among but a few dangers. Some stuff on an Oil rig will hurt you, most will KILL you. My point, don’t try to excuse actions that are wrong by saying that the suspect was the reason you chased them. Or the suspect shot at me. I have worn a badge. You wanted to do the job as a police officer, you knew the risks that come with the job, so do it. There is no excuse for actions as seen in these 2 incidents. No excuse.
More training in civil rights is needed in today’s LE schools. Rights that everybody has, suspects included. Police officers should know that the rights of the populace come first. They should be educated more on End of Chase Syndrome and how to realize the signs just like a fighter pilot receives g-force training and hopefully can see a black out before it happens.
Lets discuss this, nicely and with an attempt to see if there is a solution.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/...ng/#cnnSTCText
http://www.ktla.com/news/local/ktla-...,7041275.story
End of Chase
“There is a reason you separate military and police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.” (Borrowed a quote from a line in BSG, I believe it is apt to this discussion)
We all remember the video of the El Monte Police officer kicking a compliant suspect in the head at gunpoint. We had a discussion about it that was locked down due to personal attacks by some members, including me. This will not happen in this thread. If it does, I will assure you that a MOD will shut it down post haste and deal with the people who can't discuss a topic without attacking the poster. (emphasis added by Antipitas)
I am ex military police/investigations and served in a civilian police department in Texas. Total LE experience just shy of 14 years.
The El Monte incident was not the only incident in recent news to attract my attention. There were 5 Alabama Officers fired after a video surfaced showing them beating an unconscious suspect after a chase. By some reports this video is over a year old and was viewed by several LE supervisors, several in the LE community and Prosecuting Attorneys. Yet not one of them thought something was wrong until the trial. During the trial, the Prosecuting Attorney did not have his edited copy so he asked the defense to borrow their copy. The current Prosecuting Attorney had not seen the entire tape, it was a surprise. Think about that. 5 officers beating the hell out of an unconscious suspect, not a threat to anyone, maybe in need of medical attention at the time himself, not one person thought that this might be wrong. Our Constitution either means something or it does not. If one persons rights are abused, criminals included, we all suffer for it. Those abuses that begin on criminals, end up on the law abiding citizen.
Higher ups in several departments involved saw this video, and no one scratched their head and said, um, wait a minute. It took a year to surface. That folks is sad and alarming at the same time.
These officers were fired, and I believe they need to be charged and prosecuted for several crimes that IMO they are guilty of under color of law. Same with the El Monte Officer, another report has yet another El Monte officer striking the same suspect, but video did not capture it. That kick he gave to the suspect on the ground did not serve any LE purpose. None at all. In the past few days I have had the time to speak with some old friends, some retired LE some current, and all of them agree on what a “distraction blow” is. And they all agree that you never should deliver one, alone, and holding a suspect at gunpoint. Now I believe both of these instances are a result of 2 things. End of chase syndrome and the growing militant behavior/training of today’s peace officers.
The militant attitude that is all consuming in today’s LE is scary. Police should not act like soldiers. Soldiers are trained to kill, period. They are trained to seek out an enemy and kill. They have that mindset instilled during basic training and advanced training. In police schools across the country, that same mindset is being taught. And this is where the two jobs, military and police, clash. A police officers job is not to kill an enemy. It is to prevent crime and arrest those who are a danger to the populace, and to do that while respecting established laws and the civil rights of the population, that also includes the civil rights of the suspect/criminal.
Police are not soldiers in a war. There is not a war going on in any state where the police need to be militant. If there were, you would here about multiple officers being killed by criminals nightly on every news network. So I don’t want to hear any BS about “it’s a war out there”. I was a cop when the war on drugs was started, and it was BS then, and its BS now.
End of chase syndrome is defined as: police beatings like this have no logical explanation why they happen, some cops have described a feeling of excitement during a high speed pursuit. This feeling now has a name. It is called High-Speed Pursuit Syndrome. High-Speed Syndrome is described as a mix between fear, excitement, and adrenaline. This syndrome cause the officer to vent all these emotions on the suspect at the end of the pursuit
It is my opinion that the militant attitudes and training only aggravate this syndrome to the nth degree.
Some folks can’t handle being in LE. I now work in a dangerous industry, Oil and Gas exploration. I know what whenever I step on a location I could be killed. H2S gas, well kick, explosion are among but a few dangers. Some stuff on an Oil rig will hurt you, most will KILL you. My point, don’t try to excuse actions that are wrong by saying that the suspect was the reason you chased them. Or the suspect shot at me. I have worn a badge. You wanted to do the job as a police officer, you knew the risks that come with the job, so do it. There is no excuse for actions as seen in these 2 incidents. No excuse.
More training in civil rights is needed in today’s LE schools. Rights that everybody has, suspects included. Police officers should know that the rights of the populace come first. They should be educated more on End of Chase Syndrome and how to realize the signs just like a fighter pilot receives g-force training and hopefully can see a black out before it happens.
Lets discuss this, nicely and with an attempt to see if there is a solution.
Last edited by a moderator:
