Effectiveness of the .45 caliber. And some of the Myths.

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"I'd say the impact of the bullet is going to do something."

It is going to do something.

It's going to disrupt and displace flesh over the path of the bullet's penetration.
 
IMHO, the only problem with the .45ACP is its many (though not all) fans who believe that the .45ACP is the ONLY effective round......
 
There is a difference between being lethal and stopping the threat. A shot with a 22 may kill someone in a week or so if they do not seek medical aid, but it may not stop them from harming you or yours.

I strongly agree that bullet placement trumps all. The bullet itself is really a small part of the equation, but we seemed obsessed with it. It is also the platform. The 45 is very dependent on a 5" barrel, as its low velocity only gets worse with shorter barrels.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html

I have carried full size 1911's and the shorter 1911's with anywhere from 6-8 shots on board. I now carry a baby Glock with 14 shots of 357 Sig on board. I shoot it just as well as my 1911's, it carries quite a punch and lots of them.

http://www.underwoodammo.com/357sig125graingolddotjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx

You are not going to stop an adversary with one shot. I say that with the utmost confidence because if you train that way, shoot once and assess you will in all likelihood lose the fight.

I have been ridiculed already because I do not worship the 45 ACP, darn. :eek:
 
The 45 is very dependent on a 5" barrel, as its low velocity only gets worse with shorter barrels.
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This is true of pretty much all pistol cartridges ..... I was disconcerted by the lower velocity of my EMP ......
 
In other words, a .45 ACP works best when fired from a .45 automatic.

While perhaps you can't count on stopping someone with one shot, you also can't guarantee hitting your adversary with all shots fired, either. So both the absolute and relative effectiveness of the bulllet is important. There's more.

While some may believe the .45 ACP is anemic, the problem of more powerful cartridges, including all the magnums, the 10mm, the .40, and perhaps the .357 Sig, is both shootability and controlability, and that also applies to the .45 ACP fired from small and lightweight handguns. They can all be a handful to shoot, even more so the lighter the gun is, and the blast from some of them can be something else. That all translates to slower follow-up shots, unless you think that isn't important, although it remains true. Naturally, all that varies from individual to individual. Some will think a 45-ounce .44 magnum revolver is a nice all-round handgun, also suitable for concealed carry. But that person may expect to jump a bear or lion on the way to the outhouse. Others may have other concerns that weigh heavier.
 
In other words, a .45 ACP works best when fired from a .45 automatic.
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It works as designed when fired from a 5" 1911 ..... slightly better from longer barrelled carbines ..... but only slightly...... although 600+ round a minute out of the Thompson would be a plus....
 
No argument that the 357 Sig is a powerful round, but saying the 45 ACP is anemic as compared to some of today's rounds is just plain not true. As shown in the following ballistic tables from the amunition manufacturer you posted a link to. Where muzzle energy isn't a be all, end all, this data shows they are very similar in the two rounds, In fact the "anemic" 45ACP has 8 foot pounds more energy

Caliber: 357 Sig
Bullet Weight: 125 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass
Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps
Muzzle Energy: 584 ft. lbs.
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Technical Information

Caliber: 45 ACP
Bullet Weight: 185 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 592 ft. lbs.
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More 45 myth. The 45 was from a 5" barrel. That same 357 load claims 1525 from a 4.5" barrel. That brings the muzzle energy up to 645 ft lbs from a barrel that is still .5" shorter than the one used for the 45. Also, that is not even the highest energy load that company offers in 357 Sig. That particular load claims 1612 fps from a 4.5" barrel resulting in 663 ft lbs. Again that is still from a barrel .5" shorter than the one used for the 45 numbers.
 
If we look at more typical numbers for the two cartridges, for example Speer Gold Dot, the 45 still comes out behind on energy figures.

357 Sig from a 4" barrel

125 grains
1350 fps
506 ft lbs


45 Auto from a 5" barrel "(again, the 45 is given the advantage of a longer barrel)

230 grains
890 fps
404 ft lbs

185 grains
1050 fps
453 ft lbs

If we look at Speer's short barrel specific load from a 4" barrel, we get

230 grains
820 fps
343 ft lbs
 
The strength of the 45 is not that it produces a lot of energy because it doesn't. The strength of the 45 is that it throws a large bullet that already starts at 45 caliber.
 
The strength of the 45 is not that it produces a lot of energy because it doesn't. The strength of the 45 is that it throws a large bullet that already starts at 45 caliber.
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Which is important when using non expanding bullets. A 45 is also great if you NEED to suppress it.
 
I still don't see the proof that the 45 ACP is anemic as was stated.
You seem to have gotten away from the whole thought of the OP.
I have no doubt the .45 is a effective round but the video shows some of the rubbish that is talked about it.
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That rubbish being the whole "knock down" power thing that doesn't exist. Even in your 357 Sig, or the 357 Magnum, 10MM, or any other round for that matter.

There are certainly good choices for SD available, but with a muzzle energy of between 340 and nearly 600 ft.lbs, the 100 year old 45 ACP is one of them.

This ballistic gel comparison shows very similar performance with several good calibers. Including the 357 Sig, and the 45 ACP.
http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af223/Wolfborne/handgun_gel_comparison.jpg
 
Anemic? No

Overrated? Absolutely

I am not at all getting away from the OP's point. That point is that while the 45 is a good tool for self defense, it is often highly overrated. That is not bashing the 45 at all, that is just being real. There are a lot of 45 fan boys out there whose foolishness or ignorance constantly spews forth from their mouths and keyboards. It is a shame too. The 45 can stand just fine on it's own merits.
 
Again, I remind you that this is the statement that I totally disagree with:
I like the 45 as much as the next guy, however, it is quite anemic by today's standards.
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Not that there are many who think that the 45 ACP is the be all, end all cartridge. There are more powerful rounds, there are platforms for equally powerful, or more powerful rounds that have higher capacity. But to call the 45 ACP as it is loaded today anemic is just plain nonsense!
BTW, just so you know, while I do own several guns chambered in 45 ACP including a compact sized 1911, the guns I carry most often are chambered in 40 S&W, 9MM, and 380 ACP depending on weather, and the need for deep concealment.
 
Nonsense? No that is your opinion vs my opinion.

I do not NEED to prove an opinion gained over 3 decades of LE experience. The 45 has kinetic energy and is great for knocking over steel plates and bowling pins. That hardly means it is as effective on the street as a gun that holds almost twice as much ammo in a package that is significantly smaller and lighter.

I will not dispute that a 45 ACP HST @850 FPS makes a BIG hole, but so does a 357 Sig GD @ 1450 FPS. I love that jello shot that keeps showing up, if you are going to use that data you should at least use current data, that picture must be 10 years old.

I too grew up with the myth of the mighty 45, carried one for years. If you are happy and it makes you have sweet dreams, by all means carry what you will.
 
I do not NEED to prove an opinion gained over 3 decades of LE experience. The 45 has kinetic energy and is great for knocking over steel plates and bowling pins. That hardly means it is as effective on the street as a gun that holds almost twice as much ammo in a package that is significantly smaller and lighter.
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What does the size and capacity of the gun have to do with whether the round is anemic or not.

A gun the size of a G19 could be made to hold a whole bunch of .22lr. That wouldn't make the 9mm more anemic than .22lr.

Are we talking about the round or the platform it's fired from?
 
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I have 2 45acp's and thats all I carry. I dont really care if there are better calibers or not. I prefer my 45's. Overrated, underrated blah,blah, blah. Who cares what internet and guncounter commando's think.
 
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