Effectiveness of the .45 caliber. And some of the Myths.

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It would be the same fantasy if it were said about the 10MM
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Now, now, let's not say things we don't mean in haste :p

Honestly, I'll give as much creedence to a self-appointed expert on the television as I would to one on the internet. Is the .45 ACP an effective self-defense load? Yes, if I do my part.

Will it send a man into orbit if he's struck in the elbow by one? Statistically unlikely.
 
Sport45 you are correct
I checked again the video, they have a slide showing the 8 liters
not sure what to make of this.
In 11 minute about 8 litters of blood is lost in the case mentioned on the video (from a .357 magnum chest gun shot wound (which also did not exit wound)
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That's a lot of blood loss considering the average adult has less than 6 liters to start with.
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That's a lot of blood loss considering the average adult has less than 6 liters to start with.
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Hey! Common man. He got hit by a 45! Man, if you don't think that will squeeze a couple extra liters out of you...
 
Somewhere out in video land there's a video of a cop who is attacked and he shoots the perp with his 45. It had almost no effect !! You hear the cop saying 'I thought the 45 was much better than that ' !
Of course his real problem was that he gut shot the perp .

ONLY GOOD hits count !:p

Stopping power involves the nervous system not loss of blood. 45 can do that.
 
I like the 45 and it is a good cartridge but the effectiveness of all the service cartridges are over rated and none more than the 45. That is not knocking the cartridge. That is knocking the fools with diarrhea of the mouth.
 
I'm still a believer in knockdown power. Boxers have it and bullets have it. I don't mean it the way you necessarily believe it but if it didn't exist, people would never hit the ground unless they tripped over something. It definately doesn't exist like you see it in the movies, but to say it doesn't exist is to say being shot will have no effect on you. On the other hand, maybe you've never been knocked down.

Curiously, one of the statements made by Sykes and Fairbairn in their book was that the only guaranteed reaction to a gun shot was to double up in pain if shot in the abdomen and here I read that it had no effect on someone. So maybe there are no guarantees at all.

My father, by the way, who was an infantry combat veteran and should have known better, said a .45 would knock you down if it hit you in your little finger. But come to think of it, I've known more than one person who was missing fingers!
 
I'll just be glad when they come out with a device that stops a perp's actions without killing and does it much more reliably. The Taser was promising but doesn't always work.
 
As the old adage goes, 9's may expand but .45's don't shrink. My mother is an ER nurse and she talks about a lot about patients with gun shot wounds. I'm pretty sure these gang members and the like put much thought into bullet type but she did state that 3-4 pints of blood is normal for total loss. Lol one time I tried to explain bullet types, expansion, wound channels, etc. She finally just said," hun all I know is they come in looking like hell. We get gallons of blood at a time". I carry the .45ACP in the cooler months in 1911 form. If I had any doubt of its effectiveness' I wouldn't carry it.
 
A video showing some of the rubbish from so called experts regards the .45 caliber round.
I have no doubt the .45 is a effective round but the video shows some of the rubbish that is talked about it.
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you mean gun mag writers really don't speak the truth? WOW who would've thunk it:D
 
people would never hit the ground unless they tripped over something.
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People hit the ground after being shot due to:
1. Massive damage to the central nervous system. The brain or spinal cord eliminating muscle control.

2. Intense physical pain, and shock.

3. Psychological shock of realizing they have been shot resulting in fainting.

But bullets don't "knock them down". Period!!!
Simple physics explained by that Newton dude with his equal and opposite thing.
 
We differ on what being "knocked down" means. They go down because they were shot. One can be literally knocked down, by which I do not mean knocked off your feet or blown backwards a few feet. Ask a friend to hit you on your head with a baseball bat. Chances are, you will go down. That's knock down power. Otherwise, it's like saying "I knew what pain was. I just didn't know it hurt."

There is some controversy over whether it is possible to be knocked down backwards, as sometimes shown in the movies. The consensus is that it isn't possible but at least one very dramatic photo from the Spanish Civil War shows a soldier when hit clearly going over backwards. But I don't think it adds much to the discussion, really.

However, it's also worth mentioning that being knocked down, going down, collapsing or merely tripping over your shoelaces does not mean you will stay down. That's true of game animals, too.

There was a long article on this very subject in the 1962 Gun Digest, the title of which was "Knock down nothing," if I remember correctly.

To say they are not knocked down suggests that the bullet had nothing to do with it and as you know, that's only true with a .45, for which an actual hit is not required.

Or so I am led to believe.
 
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We differ on what being "knocked down" means.
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Generally on this and other forums the term knock down power is understood that the person using it believes in the Hollywood description with the victim flying through the air. Or at least being caused ti fall back, and down strictly by the kinetic energy of the bullet. which you agree is total BS.
But of course you are free to use the term as you like.:D
I even heard a guy with no business behind the gun counter at a local BPS tell a customer he should buy a 45 rather than a 9MM because it has better knock down power, and "With the 45 you can knock somebody down even if you just hit them in the finger" I didn't say a word, just make sure if I'm looking to buy from them he isn't working the counter!
 
Oh, no! Don't tell me a .45 is no better than a 9mm?

On a more serious note, Fairbairn & Sikes discussed this in their book. He said that the more he learned about the subject (stopping power, or whatever he called it), the less certain he was about it, which is certainly refreshingly honest. Others seem to be just the opposite and are positively dogmatic about it, or at least they are in what they write. Unfortunately, some of them have something to sell in the meantime.

Nobody ever mentions how small a target a finger is, either.
 
If one talks about "ball" or FMJ ammo, then the .45 is one of the better rounds simply because it opens a larger hole for blood loss (despite the round nose FMJ being a poor design for such).

When it comes to modern JHP ammo which expands as designed, the .45 does have a slight edge because the total volume of disrupted tissue is still a bit larger than smaller rounds. But this assumes identical bullet placement in identical targets which is seldom the case. To get an idea of the kind of damage and trauma a .45 JHP can cause, watch either this video (Federal HST) or this one (Speer Gold Dot).


Only the combination of penetration and placement to hit the very few and rather small vital organs -- is what makes the injury immediately fatal (brain steam, aorta, and I assume, heart).
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You omitted the central nervous system (CNS). Any round that can reach and damage the spine stands a very good chance of shutting down your opponent if you can hit that rather narrow target. Making a head shot isn't a guaranteed stoppage, but usually works.

When it comes to COM shots, a retired Coroner told me that most of the "instant" fatalities he'd seen (that didn't involve a CNS hit) involved a solid hit in the top 3-4 inches of the sternum. Specifically, the region of the aortic arch (above the heart). Medical diagrams show that the esophagus, trachea and aortic arch are all crammed in this area so a miss of the heart's main output artery can still impact the main ventilation system or the ability to swallow, which can make breathing very difficult. Many times all three of these major are damaged by a bullet or bone fragments. In those cases, the subject almost immediately stops being aggressive and concentrates on trying to stay alive. Damaging the aortic arch is kind of like ripping out the all the oil and fuel lines at the same time. Blood pressure drops in seconds.

Other hit points flank the spine between the neck and groin. The main arteries that move blood through the body are on the back wall of the body. If you disrupt these, blood loss is rapid and dramatic.
 
The power of the .45...heavens knows I wouldn't want to get hit with ANY bullet let alone a .45 but does anybody remember this video where the guy shot himself in the leg with a .45...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

Not as famous as DEA agent 'Fortay'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

but both managed to carry on without being instantly incapacitated despite being shot with a .45 and a .40 respectively.

Cheapshooter:
"With the 45 you can knock somebody down even if you just hit them in the finger" I didn't say a word, just make sure if I'm looking to buy from them he isn't working the counter!
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Don't be too hasty - he might be the one to sell you that Colt Python revolver for $200 because 'revolvers are old fashioned and everybody knows semi-autos are better.'
 
Don't be too hasty - he might be the one to sell you that Colt Python revolver for $200 because 'revolvers are old fashioned and everybody knows semi-autos are better.'
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Actually I haven't seen him there in some time....Gee, wonder why???:eek:
 
I believe the 45acp is a very effective round and possible better then the other pistol calibers at ranges of twenty yards and under, ( current bullet designs offer very good performance in all calibers.) Many Police Depts are switching over to 45acp for good reasons. But I keep thinking about the Officer who was off duty with his girlfriend when an active shooter entered the mall they were in, (Western US somewhere.) He was carrying a seven or eight shot 1911 (Kimber I believe.) When interviewed later on he kept saying that only having seven or eight shots played a huge factor in his decision making and he didn't bring the fight to the assailant. He did back up a local Sergeant who responded. SWAT ended up taking out the assailant when they made entry. There is something to be said for round count.
 
Me again. There are more myths about the .45 auto than its effectiveness and the first one that comes to mind is that it's difficult to shoot.

Anyone here think it's actually difficult to shoot? Now, I will admit that the lightweight Colt Officer's ACP was something of a handful to shoot, meaning you really had to hang onto the thing when you shot it and there weren't going to be any double-taps, either, not with me doing the tapping. However, I wouldn't call it unpleasant as in .357 unpleasant magnum. I don't think I've fired a 9mm in a pistol that small but a garden variety PPK in .380, as well as a Makarov, which is worse, are not really all that pleasant to shoot just for fun. But if you go up a notch to a Colt lightweight Commander, it becomes quite manageable. After using my own practice handloads for 9mm, using factory 9mm was always surprising in comparison. Overall, however, I'd rate the .45 auto easy to shoot, rather than what you sometimes hear.

Accuracy? Provided you aren't using something manufactured before I was born, which they still were when I was in the army, all the .45 autos I ever owned were equal to or better than any 9mm or .38 Super pistol. Unfortunately, I have to admit that most (but not all) of my .38/.357 revolvers were marginally easier to shoot but that was with target loads. But frankly, you really don't hear complaints about the accuracy of a .45 ACP that you can take seriously.

Reliability? More related to the pistol itself, I suppose, but after 100 years, most of the bugs should have been worked out, wouldn't you say?

So, why don't I have one? I've got a nice stash of ammo somewhere or other.
 
1911 myths...Bluetrain...don't forget the one about the weight of a 1911. I remember one writer many years ago saying it was the only handgun that could double as a small boat anchor.
 
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