DWM Luger Failure to eject / chamber - Help please.
- Thread starter erob3
- Start date
get a second opinion?
The 9mm Luger was developed by opening up the neck of the .30 Luger. As far as I know (and I'm not a Luger expert), there is no difference in the 9mm & .30 magazines. I don't recall ever seeing .30 Luger magazines listed anywhere, but I have to admit I was never really looking for them...
But, one would expect the lady on the phone to know their products, right?
If you can, borrow a 9mm Luger magazine, and test it. Or find someone who has both .30 and 9mm Lugers and ask them. Both mine are 9mm.
I can tell you that the Stoeger Luger 9mm (stainless steel) will not take original German P.08 mags. The mag catch is just enough "off" that they won't lock in.
Eric, I did get your PM on this and replied but I'm not sure it went through. My reply is not in my sent box anyway. So I'll try again here.
First, I've never fired a .30Luger so don't have firsthand experience but I am almost certain the 9mm and 30Luger magazines function with either caliber. In fact, after two World Wars the Allies and many other temporary owners routinely separated magazines and pistols to the point where it's unusual to see a Luger now with its original magazine. Going further, there was no serious attempt to segregate 9mm and 30Luger mags so any combination could turn up when pistols and mags were married back down the road.
So I think the lady at Mec-Gar was misinformed or just being extra careful. Anyway a little googling should clear up this issue.
I think Mec-Gar makes the best P08/Luger magazine today (and this is true for many other pistols) but there are other brands too. I also think a good magazine will solve a lot of Luger functioning issues. Besides, it makes sense to have at least one new magazine if only to narrow down possible problems.
This is an interesting issue so please update the thread if you do get the problem solved!
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OK, the failure to feed problem. Can you provide more details on how and when it happens?
Does it happen when the Mag is full? Does it happen if you put only 2 rounds in the mag? What about 3 rounds? What sort of bullet does your ammo have? Round nose, flat point, or hollow point?
When the stoppage happens, what position is the cartridge in? Is the bullet already in the chamber? Is the cartridge body still under the Mag lips? Do you see anything stopping the cartridge from going into the chamber?
-TL
TL- I have loaded everything from 1-5 rounds in the mag and none work. I am shooting Fiocchi 93gr round nose FMJ ammo. When it does not feed it is in a "stove pipe" position. At times the empty casing is actually stove piped so the next round does not have the opportunity to load. I see nothing that would stop the round from properly chambering so maybe the magazine is the issue. After disassembling the pistol I completely removed the firing pin housing from the upper frame, I put a round in the firing pin housing to see if the ejector had enough strength to hold the round in place, it works fine so the ejector spring is not the issue. As I mentioned earlier I completely disassembled the pistol, cleaned it thoroughly, lubed it and put it back together. I did not fire it before cleaning and to my knowledge my Dad had never fired it.
Quentin@ - Thanks for the input - I did get your PM.
Quentin@ - Thanks for the input - I did get your PM.
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Jim Watson
New member
While Lugers do not need "hot" loads to function - original 9mm was a 123 at either 1040 or 1090 fps, power factor 134; and .30 is specified at a 93 at 1250 fps, power factor 116 - they do need full power ammo.
I have READ that modern Fiocchi is considerably underloaded and the "seasonal production" Winchester nearly as much. The only route to full power seems to be handloading.
A stovepipe on the empty is likely due to low velocity. Nose up failures to feed are likely the magazine but may also be affected by short recoil that barely got the breechblock back far enough to pick up the top round in the magazine.
I have READ that modern Fiocchi is considerably underloaded and the "seasonal production" Winchester nearly as much. The only route to full power seems to be handloading.
A stovepipe on the empty is likely due to low velocity. Nose up failures to feed are likely the magazine but may also be affected by short recoil that barely got the breechblock back far enough to pick up the top round in the magazine.
I can confirm this based on personal experience. I have an old Star 9mm that doesn't cycle correctly when using U.S. manufactured ammunition. That's why I keep a few boxes of the older "Made in Italy" 123 grain 9mm FMJ ammo around. You want the maroon colored box of Fiocchi, if you can find it.
Thanks for the feedback CowTowner - I looked into the maroon box Fiocchi ammo and it runs $50 a box. I think I will try a reduced power main spring before dropping that kind of money on bullets. If I can get the main spring where it works with current production Fiocchi it's all the same in the end. As long as the pistol cycles properly I'm good. But I appreciate you letting me know about the difference and there must be some truth to it, I must have the under powered ammo because my boxes are black which is the current and most available version.
Rick - I just checked Greg Cote website and they are sold out of the Luger mags. When I called Mec-Gar yesterday they said it would be May or June before they have some back in stock. Thank you for the info.
Rick - I just checked Greg Cote website and they are sold out of the Luger mags. When I called Mec-Gar yesterday they said it would be May or June before they have some back in stock. Thank you for the info.
Jim Watson
New member
It is an interesting project.
I am not much subject to novelty calibers, I eliminated two from my collection and cut another down to where an occasional box of factory loads will be enough shooting to not have to tool up to handload it. Another will be down to the occasional box when I have loaded and shot what brass I have on hand.
That said, I could be tempted by a .30 Luger for some obscure reason. In a Luger or one of the other, less common guns made for it. Only thing that would interest me in a Browning, for example.
I am not much subject to novelty calibers, I eliminated two from my collection and cut another down to where an occasional box of factory loads will be enough shooting to not have to tool up to handload it. Another will be down to the occasional box when I have loaded and shot what brass I have on hand.
That said, I could be tempted by a .30 Luger for some obscure reason. In a Luger or one of the other, less common guns made for it. Only thing that would interest me in a Browning, for example.
This is indicative of short cycling. The bolt doesn't bring the empty to the rear enough for the ejector to kick it out. I wouldn't want to modify the main spring just for that as it is only a minor factor of the equation. The major factor is the mass of the mechanism, the barrel, the toggle link, the bolt etc. It requires adequate bullet momentum to complete cycling. It is more so especially for .30 cal as the barrel has thicker wall. A weaker spring may fix the empty stove piping, but I think the failure to feed will remain. It simply needs more energy to do the work. The correct way is the right kind of ammunition. Or you just do single shots.
Failure to lock back on last shot could be due to short cycling or the improper engagement between the latch and the bolt. Trying manually cycling the pistol as forcefully as you can with the magazine all the way up. If it locks back every time, it is likely short cycling.
When the failure to feed happens, has the tip of the bullet made its way into the chamber? Is the cartridge's body still held under the lips? Magazine tends to develop burrs at the wrong places after prolong use, which may catch the cartridge when being fed into the chamber.
-TL
Tango- The nose of the unfired round actually passes by the barrel entry and sticks up out of the pistol just like a stove pipe. After reading and getting feedback from everyone I'm simply starting to believe it is an ammo issue. When I pull the toggle back manually it takes a good amount of pull so I just think the Black Box Fiocchi is not hot enough to properly cycle the toggle. Wolff springs has a reduced power main spring; 36lbs. They state the 38lb spring is factory, I can't imagine a 2lb difference would be a large enough reduction in power to not properly chamber the next round after firing one. Then again, that's what I am asking everyone here on TFL.... so I can learn. I'm about to think it would be worth the $10 to get one and find out.
I GENTLY squeezed the lips of the mag together the last time out at the range in an effort to tune it some, but I can't swear that the mag is not worn out.
It's no wonder the Germans lost the war!!
I GENTLY squeezed the lips of the mag together the last time out at the range in an effort to tune it some, but I can't swear that the mag is not worn out.
It's no wonder the Germans lost the war!!
I can't believe the lady at MecGar told you that 9mm mags wouldn't work for7.65. They are one and the same magazine--no differences of any kind.
https://delta3outfitters.com/store/products/MEC%2dGAR-MAG-LUGER-P%2d08-9MM-8RD-BL.html $34.06.
https://delta3outfitters.com/store/products/MEC%2dGAR-MAG-LUGER-P%2d08-9MM-8RD-BL.html $34.06.
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