Dumb newbie question
- Thread starter circa81
- Start date
I suspect the question arises from hearing that some auto-loading pistols won't function with low power loads, like .22 Short in a pistol designed for .22 Long Rifle. They will fire OK, but the power of the cartridge is not enough to operate the self-loading mechanism so the pistol has to be operated manually to fire the next round.
Jim
Jim
Single action shooting is for slow, careful, aimed shots. Double action shooting is for rapid fire shots that just go in the general direction of where you want to hit. (As a rule; There are some who can shoot accurately using double action, although it is generally more difficult than single action.)
This is true. Most shooters of revolvers only practice shooting single action on a SA/DA revolvers. Too me this is a waste of a revolver. Until a person masters both single action and double action, a person would be better off buying just single action revolvers.
Regards,
Howard
circa81 said:
Nope. After you take a shot, the revolver mechanism is effectively at "safe, rest" position, each and every time. The hammer is down, the trigger is forward. This is the carry condition. It doesn't matter if you take one shot or 5; if the hammer is down, the mechanism is not cocked and is safe.
Luckily, a Double action mechanism is also always at ready. For a quick, need-it-now shot, if you squeeze the trigger, a DA revolver will cock and fire.
Basically, forget applying what you know from semi-automatics to revolvers. The operating principles DO NOT apply. By your statement above, you're thinking the revolver operates the same as a Sig, Beretta, CZ, HK or similar DA/SA auto, where the slide cycling cocks the action and sets you into the single action mode.
And yes, most people shoot revolvers single-action, by it a single action or a double action design. This is a large part of the common adage "revolvers are more accurate than semi-autos" in most shooters hands. (Ignoring mechnical accuracy, where revolvers general ARE more accurate.) If you were to force the average shooter to shoot a DA revolver double action, a Glock would magically become more accurate for them than the revolver.
Kreyzhorse
New member
+1.
"Their might be some confusion here. When I day double action, I mean a revolver that is double action/single action, not DAO. If the trigger always moves forward, why do you need to decock double action/single action revolvers?"
You're getting your terminology confused. The hammer not the trigger is what you de-cock if you are shooting S/A. When you pull the trigger during D/A the hammer won't lock back. If you have to cease fire while in D/A mode you have to manually stop the hammer and gently lower it back to rest while having the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. If your thumb slips off the hammer while de-cocking the gun, it can go boom.
If you're planning on owning a revolver, I'd strongly suggest that you practice dry firing it a lot in both conditions before you put a single round through it. Become one with the gun.
Hobie
You're getting your terminology confused. The hammer not the trigger is what you de-cock if you are shooting S/A. When you pull the trigger during D/A the hammer won't lock back. If you have to cease fire while in D/A mode you have to manually stop the hammer and gently lower it back to rest while having the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. If your thumb slips off the hammer while de-cocking the gun, it can go boom.
If you're planning on owning a revolver, I'd strongly suggest that you practice dry firing it a lot in both conditions before you put a single round through it. Become one with the gun.
Hobie
When shooting the revolver in double action the hammer moves as you pull the triger back and the hammer falls when you reach the end of the triger pull. once the hammer falls it stays in the down position untill you pull the triger once again. In single action the hammer is pulled back with your thumb and locks in the up position untill the triger is pulled (this time with much less force than in double action). Once the triger is pulled in single action the hammer falls and once again has to be reset with your thumb to get it to stay locked in the up position. In no way will a revolvers hammer in single or double action be reset just by shooting the gun as it would in an auto pistol. the hammer is always in the down position untill either the triger is pulled allowing the hammer to move with the triger pull or the hammer is manually set in the up/locked position. like someone else has said. If the hammer is locked in the up position and you do not want to shoot, you have to hold your thumb on it and slowly bring the hammer back down so it does not strike the firing pin hard and fire the round.
A double action pistol, be it a revolver or autoloader, will fire the gun regardless of condition with a pull of the trigger.
A single action pistion, be it revolver or autoloader, requires the operator to manually "cock" the action, before a pull of the trigger will result in a discharge.
In a DA autoloader, if you load a mag and rack the slide, it has already been "cocked" from DA to SA. So now every pull of the trigger will result in a discharge, the slide goes rearward and recocks the pistol. However, most DAs are equipped with a de-cocker, which puts the hammer down safely. In this condition it would be truly a double action trigger pull, as you pull the trigger the hammer will move rearward, as you reach the trigger stop the hammer falls, discharges the round, slide goes rearward, upon re-entry to battery the hammer remains back and trigger in a single action state for the next round.
In a SA autoloader, when you load a mag and rack the slide, the hammer is cocked and trigger is back and hammer is on the sear. When the trigger is pulled, round is discharged, slide goes rearward, cocking the hammer again. With an SA autoloader, if you load the mag and rack the slide, and then let the hammer down, in this type of pistol the hammer must be cocked for the trigger to pull and fire the round.
In a Double Action revolver, once you load the cylinder with 6(or capacity, or however you feel like loading) you close the cylinder. Right now the pistol is safe, trigger is forward, and hammer is down. You can pull the trigger and as you pull the trigger the hammer will go back, the cylinder will spin, and once past the sear the hammer will fall and round will discharge. Hammer remains down and trigger goes back forward once you release it. Upon another trigger pull the hammer goes rearward, the cylinder rotates, once past the sear the hammer falls and discharges a round. Now the trigger is again forward and the hammer down. At this point you could fire it "single action" by pulling the hammer back, the cylinder will turn, and the hammer will lock and rest against the sear. The trigger will now be back, more like a SA trigger. Once you pull the trigger, the hammer will fall and the round will discharge. The trigger will still go forward, and the hammer will remain down.
In a single action revolver, once you have it loaded, the trigger will be forward and the hammer will be down. If you try to pull the trigger in this condition the trigger will not operate the action. You have to manually pull the hammer back, the trigger will move rearward, the cylinder will rotate, and the hammer will rest on the sear. Once you pull the trigger the hammer will fall, the round will discharge and once you release the trigger it will again move forward. At this point again the only way to operate the action is to pull the hammer back, this continues until you have fired all 6 rounds.
I apologize if this is hard to read or offends anyone. It just seems you are mixing a couple ideas. Basically a DA you can pull the trigger and fire, a SA you have to cock to fire. I hope this helps
A single action pistion, be it revolver or autoloader, requires the operator to manually "cock" the action, before a pull of the trigger will result in a discharge.
In a DA autoloader, if you load a mag and rack the slide, it has already been "cocked" from DA to SA. So now every pull of the trigger will result in a discharge, the slide goes rearward and recocks the pistol. However, most DAs are equipped with a de-cocker, which puts the hammer down safely. In this condition it would be truly a double action trigger pull, as you pull the trigger the hammer will move rearward, as you reach the trigger stop the hammer falls, discharges the round, slide goes rearward, upon re-entry to battery the hammer remains back and trigger in a single action state for the next round.
In a SA autoloader, when you load a mag and rack the slide, the hammer is cocked and trigger is back and hammer is on the sear. When the trigger is pulled, round is discharged, slide goes rearward, cocking the hammer again. With an SA autoloader, if you load the mag and rack the slide, and then let the hammer down, in this type of pistol the hammer must be cocked for the trigger to pull and fire the round.
In a Double Action revolver, once you load the cylinder with 6(or capacity, or however you feel like loading) you close the cylinder. Right now the pistol is safe, trigger is forward, and hammer is down. You can pull the trigger and as you pull the trigger the hammer will go back, the cylinder will spin, and once past the sear the hammer will fall and round will discharge. Hammer remains down and trigger goes back forward once you release it. Upon another trigger pull the hammer goes rearward, the cylinder rotates, once past the sear the hammer falls and discharges a round. Now the trigger is again forward and the hammer down. At this point you could fire it "single action" by pulling the hammer back, the cylinder will turn, and the hammer will lock and rest against the sear. The trigger will now be back, more like a SA trigger. Once you pull the trigger, the hammer will fall and the round will discharge. The trigger will still go forward, and the hammer will remain down.
In a single action revolver, once you have it loaded, the trigger will be forward and the hammer will be down. If you try to pull the trigger in this condition the trigger will not operate the action. You have to manually pull the hammer back, the trigger will move rearward, the cylinder will rotate, and the hammer will rest on the sear. Once you pull the trigger the hammer will fall, the round will discharge and once you release the trigger it will again move forward. At this point again the only way to operate the action is to pull the hammer back, this continues until you have fired all 6 rounds.
I apologize if this is hard to read or offends anyone. It just seems you are mixing a couple ideas. Basically a DA you can pull the trigger and fire, a SA you have to cock to fire. I hope this helps
A double action revolver ...is not a double action only gun...it can be fired as a single action gun too.
When you fire double action ...the hammer does not lock back. In double action the hammer moves back - but drops when you keep pulling the trigger.
The trick on shooting double action revolvers well ...is to keep pulling the trigger smoothly - and at a constant rate ...emphasis on smooth.
You might be seeing some guys on the internet - staging a trigger - in double action. Where they pull it part way - then stop --- then they pull it until it breaks /neither of which is recommended by most revolver shooters.
When you thumb cock the hammer on a double action gun - it locks the hammer...then you pull the trigger and the gun fires. The gun fires with way less pressure on the trigger in single action.
That's why we say in a double action revolver ...like a S&W model 27 as an example ....in double action you might have a 9lb trigger pull. In single action, when you lock the hammer back, the trigger pull is about 2-3 lbs...
Both double action ...and single action ...have their place in shooting double action revolvers. Shooting tactically ....coming out of a holster ...I shoot almost 100% double action. If I were using a gun to hunt...bringing the gun up ....and cocking the hammer ...will give me a more precise and accurate shot. But if I'm double tapping a target ...I'll always shoot double action.
Some semi-autos are double action / single action ...and you fire the first shot double action ...and each subsequent shot single action. But that works because the recoil of the slide ..cocks the hammer on each shot after the first.
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Then there a single action only revolvers....like the Colt single action army...where you have no option to pull the trigger without first cocking the hammer. The gun will not fire --- if the hammer is down ..and you pull on the trigger.
In a double action revolver ...pulling the trigger is part of the action that moves the hammer back .../ or you can cock the hammer with your hand - and then fire it in single action.
Practice it both ways....each has their uses.
When you fire double action ...the hammer does not lock back. In double action the hammer moves back - but drops when you keep pulling the trigger.
The trick on shooting double action revolvers well ...is to keep pulling the trigger smoothly - and at a constant rate ...emphasis on smooth.
You might be seeing some guys on the internet - staging a trigger - in double action. Where they pull it part way - then stop --- then they pull it until it breaks /neither of which is recommended by most revolver shooters.
When you thumb cock the hammer on a double action gun - it locks the hammer...then you pull the trigger and the gun fires. The gun fires with way less pressure on the trigger in single action.
That's why we say in a double action revolver ...like a S&W model 27 as an example ....in double action you might have a 9lb trigger pull. In single action, when you lock the hammer back, the trigger pull is about 2-3 lbs...
Both double action ...and single action ...have their place in shooting double action revolvers. Shooting tactically ....coming out of a holster ...I shoot almost 100% double action. If I were using a gun to hunt...bringing the gun up ....and cocking the hammer ...will give me a more precise and accurate shot. But if I'm double tapping a target ...I'll always shoot double action.
Some semi-autos are double action / single action ...and you fire the first shot double action ...and each subsequent shot single action. But that works because the recoil of the slide ..cocks the hammer on each shot after the first.
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Then there a single action only revolvers....like the Colt single action army...where you have no option to pull the trigger without first cocking the hammer. The gun will not fire --- if the hammer is down ..and you pull on the trigger.
In a double action revolver ...pulling the trigger is part of the action that moves the hammer back .../ or you can cock the hammer with your hand - and then fire it in single action.
Practice it both ways....each has their uses.
'Pvt. Pyle'
"In a Double Action revolver, once you load the cylinder with 6(or capacity, or however you feel like loading) you close the cylinder. Right now the pistol is safe, trigger is forward, and hammer is down. You can pull the trigger and as you pull the trigger the hammer will go back, the cylinder will spin, and once past the sear the hammer will fall and round will discharge. Hammer remains down and trigger goes back forward once you release it. "
when you say once you release it, does that man if you if you don't release it all the way forward, you can release it to a shorter reset position, then pull back and the revolver fires with a shorter and lighter trigger?
"In a Double Action revolver, once you load the cylinder with 6(or capacity, or however you feel like loading) you close the cylinder. Right now the pistol is safe, trigger is forward, and hammer is down. You can pull the trigger and as you pull the trigger the hammer will go back, the cylinder will spin, and once past the sear the hammer will fall and round will discharge. Hammer remains down and trigger goes back forward once you release it. "
when you say once you release it, does that man if you if you don't release it all the way forward, you can release it to a shorter reset position, then pull back and the revolver fires with a shorter and lighter trigger?