Double Barrel SxS

Denster,
Let's say you're correct and stipulate:
  • Time and effort spent regulating SxS guns may not have been a wise investments except for very specific applications. And,
  • The resultant vector from the swinging gun's inertia and the eccentric recoil due to the SxS's geometry generally negate any correction by regulation.
Doesn't this serve to reinforce my supposition that the SxS is inherently the least accurate of the common shotgun configurations?
 
Well, I haven't met you personally Zippy, I didn't say people don't do it. I come from a economically depressed region so people can't afford to shoot that much, not to mention the lack of competitions.

I'm sure people who are quite into competition shooting will shoot that much, and people who can afford it (or spend their money on shooting versus other hobbies), but I have way to many expensive hobbies to ever go through that quantity of shells financially.
 
Zippy

You are correct. Regarding how we generally define accuracy the single barrel ie: pumps, autos, etc. are the most accurate followed by the O/U and the SxS bringing up the tail.
That said all are accurate enough and the important thing is the skill of the man behind the gun.
 
The man was just looking for a 'cheap' SXS; all this debate and techno speak may have scared him off ;)I learned alot though:D
 
Try your local gun shop, there are some out there you can trust, and telling them your NEW to the gunny world and they won't try to screw you.
If you get this good vibe, you can get a good used o/u or s/s for your price.
They'll be old but they shoot well and you'll be on your way, to a new higher grade gun. Don't waste your money on a Bentley when a Jeep will get you where you need to go.
 
Concerning the discussion about the need (or not the need) for regulating barrels on SXS doubles, I found the following quotation from Charles Askins in his book Modern Shotguns and Loads interesting, if, perhaps, a "bit" dated: "...Double barrels are of course forged in separate tubes, which are then smoothed down to correct shape and put together by soldering. It requires a clever workman to fasten a pair of barrels together so that they will shoot to an exact center, and in fact so adjusting shotgun barrels is a trade of its own. Occasionally at that, a pair of barrels will have to be taken apart and readjusted. Bore sighting is of considerable help in correctly placing two barrels together, and the man who has a suspicion that his two barrels are not shooting to center can test that out by putting up a six inch bull at thirty yards, fixing his tubes in a rest and sighting through them..."
 
Actually regulation of sxs double shotguns is a much overstated thing. The idea that SxS shotguns whoever makes them are regulated to shoot both barrels to the same point of aim at some predetermined distance is a fallacy.
Click to expand...

Incorrect, at least on top tier quality guns. On bottom rung cheap guns from Russia and Turkey, you'll be lucky if they shoot in the same time zone.

Ask the folks at Purdey or H&H about regulating barrels
 
Actually it is correct and the folks at Purdy and H&H would tell you that shotguns are layed up not regulated. Double rifles are regulated.
Stop and think about it for a bit how useful would a shotgun that was limited to one load only be.

Also the so called cheap guns from Russia and Turkey shoot very well actually. The formulas for laying up SxS shotguns regarding barrel length, weight, convergance vs range of charges for the guage are pretty well known.

Interesting that a few months ago the History channel had an hour long program at Holland and Holland on constructing a "bespoken" SxS shotgun that went into detail showing the construction and laying up of the barrels, the machining and hand fitting of the action and stocking the gun. They did not regulate it and a "bespoken" gun is about as high tier as you can get.
 
Last edited:
Regarding the quote from Charles Askins. He was a colorful character. However the quotation shows he had a profound misunderstanding of that aspect of shotgunning. Particularly the part about putting a target up at 30yds and sighting through the bores. That is just so much bologny. It is not important where the muzzles are pointing when the trigger is pulled but where they are pointing when the charge leaves the barrel.
 
Hawk, I'm guessing "pretty danged accurate" is more than okay for cowboy competition and game getting, but wouldn't be at home at an ATA 27-yard event nor a Saturday night pot shoot where single barrel guns rule.
 
Can't resist saying that a 32" barrel full choke trap gun would be kind of out of place at a cowboy shoot, or a rabbit thicket or quail covey. Each tool to it's best purpose.
 
denster said:
Each tool to it's best purpose.
Click to expand...
Yep, you know that and so do I. How do we get the first time shotgun buyer to realize there isn't a cheap do everything shotgun available? All gun acquisitions involve some degree of compromise. The best gun for a specific application is the one with the least amount of compromise.
 
I hope everyone will forgive me for bringing up a thread from 2 years ago, but this thread is how I found The Firing Line and my desire to thank Denster for his posts on SXS shotguns is one of the reasons I finally decided to join.

My interest in a SXS shotgun started in 1963 when my dad borrowed a Winchester .410 sxs from our neighbor and I carried it on my first squirrel hunt. I managed to get a squirrel, and I begged my dad to buy that gun for me. The neighbor wanted $40 for it, and Dad said that was too much. I think it would be worth about $3K now, but times were hard. I wound up getting a Winchester Model 37 20 gauge as my first gun.

When I got a little older, I wanted a repeater, and an uncle sold me a beautiful Spanish-made SXS 12 gauge. I was able to have my first success in wing-shooting doves and quail with that gun, but it turned out that its beauty was strictly on the outside. After a couple of years of use, it would no longer fire and I never did find a gunsmith who could fix it. I got an 1100 and it became the only shotgun I used for many years. I always wanted another SXS, but never had the funds to buy one that appealed to me.

Although we hunted most everything in our area of AL, my great passion has always been turkey hunting. As I have gotten older, I searched for the perfect turkey gun. I wound up buying a Benelli Super Black Eagle in 2003 and found it to be a great shotgun. Then I found out about a new kind of shot, called Tungsten Super Shot (tss). This shot is super dense, running around 18g/cc, while lead is only 11g/cc. The density allows one to use smaller shot and obtain super dense patterns. I've been hunting primarily with #8 shot the last 5 seasons, but many people are using 9s.

I developed a 3.5" 2oz load for the SBE, and it works great. Actually, is too great and is serious overkill. I know of several folks now hunting with .410s using tss and making clean kills beyond 40 yards. So I started thinking about a new turkey gun last summer, and decided I would like to get the SXS I'd always wanted. A 20 gauge seemed like the perfect choice.

I soon discovered nobody makes a SXS like I wanted. I wanted 24" barrels and as little weight as possible. It also had to have enough metal on the receiver to mount a Burris FF sight; I just can't see well enough to get by without a sight of some kind now. I eventually settled on a Yildiz.

My first concern was whether or not both barrels would shoot to the same POA; I tested it with field loads and it did. So I sent it off to my gunsmith who cut and rethreaded the barrels, lengthened the forcing cones, and devised a way to mount the sight. When I got it back, I found it shot great patterns, but the barrels would not shoot my heavy tss loads to the same POA. With 7/8 and 1 oz loads, it centered them just fine. With my 1.75 oz loads, the right barrel shot 7" to the right and the left barrel shot 10" to the left.

I did a lot of searching and found this thread and began to understand the problem. Those Turks did a good job of making the little gun shoot field loads to the same spot; they never thought of a redneck from AL doing such things to their pretty little gun and shooting an unimaginable 1.75 oz load out of a 20 gauge.

I did find the gun would center ok with certain 1.25 oz loads, but I wasn't satisfied with that, so off the barrels went to Brileys to make eccentric chokes. They assured me their formula would work, but I think its a formula based on shooting lead and it didn't work for my loads. I made new targets and sent it back again, and the 2nd try wasn't a lot better. I did finally mix and match the chokes enough to get the gun to shoot both barrels to the same point, though that point is well to the right. The little dot on the FF sight took care of that, so I now have a 5 lb 2 oz turkey killer and killed a turkey with it Thursday. The open barrel has a nice wide pattern at 25 yds, but is still dense enough to kill one out to 40 yds. The tight barrel with an eccentric choke isn't as tight as I would like, but it is a solid 50 yd gun, and I wouldn't shoot one past that anyway. The whole idea of a SXS turkey gun is to have 2 chokes; one for close range and another for longer range. The little gun does that for me.

So I write all this mainly just to say thanks to Denster for helping me understand that a SXS cannot shoot both barrels to the same POA with every load. Mine doesn't need to; just needs to shoot this one load the same, and it finally does that. It is only 40" long, and comes close to being the perfect turkey gun. It would need double triggers to earn that declaration, and nobody makes one configured that way that would work for my purpose. I'll send it off to be camo-dipped before next season. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread; it really helped me understand my problem.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top