Double Action, no decocker?

I thought it was obvious I was referring to Nightcrawler's worries about how "unsafe" it is to decock a DA/SA auto without a decocker. If he can't see doing it as safe, he should either get one with a decocker or carry it C&L and act like it is a SA a la a BHP, so he doesn't ever have to decock it. :rolleyes:

Personal opinion: I don't see why the heck anyone would WANT to decock a CZ-75B. What do you gain from doing that... a worse trigger pull for your first shot? Or is having the hammer back just scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaary? :confused:
 
Castle.

I took the term, "people" as meaning your reply was meant for
more than one person? How many people is "Nightcrawler" anyway?:D

I agree with you..if it makes him apprehensive. But, you should
not become dependant on them, by any means. Decockers are nice..but sometimes they wear and become less dependable.
I believe that everyone should be able to drop the hammer on their weapon. For numerous reasons...all very simple.

I carry hammer down, because its the common element in my draw that remains the same with all of the guns I carry!!!!!!!!
I have a snubbie 357 and a DAO 9mm I carry on top of my CZ's

I am more than willing to devote the time and energy required to
learn how to carry cond 1. I need a volunteer to teach me how to
carry my 357 and DAO this way....comeone! I need a good laugh!
:eek:
Shoot well
 
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Well with all the dangerous lowering of hammer talk...

Years ago I remember seeing magazine article describing a custom model 60 that had the hammer spur completey removed. The author stated the single action notch was left in so that you could start the hammer back with the trigger and get the face of the hammer with your thumb to cock it for single action "If you were suddenly faced with a precision shot".

Always wondered how he intended to uncock the gun after this:confused: Now that I don't read gun magazines I find myself less confused most of the time.
 
Handy, the IDPA rule book states that "Selective DA/SA pistols MUST begin hammer down" in SSP division(that means you use the decocker to put the weapon in double action mode). If you choose to shoot your CZ in ESP division, than you can start it with the hammer back, like a 1911. You still are never allowed to manually lower the hammer with your thumb. You may, however, after drawing the weapon and having a safe muzzle direction, elect to thumb cock the hammer for a single action first shot.
For you info Handy, I have been running IDPA matches since early 1997. If you ever decide to shoot an IDPA match. and attempt to use your thumb to manually decock your CZ, the Range Officer will instruct you to use the decocker. If you refuse, then you will not be allowed to participate.
 
I gave the link to the IDPA rule book for a reason. Read it. The CZ-75 and 85 models are specifically listed in the SSP section. You can't start cocked and locked in SSP. You can also shoot that pistol in ESP in condition 1, but it's listed under the DA/SA Safe Action SSP section, so I still don't know what you're talking about.

Actually, you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. I've shot IDPA for ONLY 2 years with a variety of pistols. Lately I've been using an HK P9S. Consider this: to decock that one you must hold the cocking lever down and pull the trigger. Heavens! I think I'll shoot IDPA with that weapon tonight, if they continue to let me shoot at the club!
 
for those not computer gifted:

"...STOCK SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION requirements and is NOT meant to be a definitive list of approved pistols.)


Astra A-75, A-100, Beretta 92FS, 92 Elite, 96, Cougar, Browning, BDA, CZ 75, 85, 100, Daewoo DP-51, DH-40, Desert Eagle Baby Eagle, EAA Witness, FEG PJK-9HP, Glock 19, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 34, 35, H&K USP, Kahr K9, K40, Para-Ordnance LDA, Ruger, Ruger P89, KP89, KP90, KP93, KP94, P95, P97, Sig, Sig 220, 225, 226, 228 & 229, Smith and Wesson 908, 909, 910, 1006, 3913, 3953, 4506, 4516, 4566, 4586, 6904, 6906, 6946, 4013, 4053, 4046, 410, 4006, 4043, 5903, 5904, 5906, 5946 & Sigma, Smith & Wesson Performance Center Shorty 9, 40 & 45, model 5906 Tactical, Taurus PT92, PT908, PT99, PT100, PT940, PT101, PT945, PT911, Walther P88, P-99

NOTE: Selective DA/SA pistols MUST begin hammer down."

I count 8 models listed in this non-inclusive IDPA rulebook list that are or were available with a DA/SA trigger and no decocker. When this rule was written, the CZ pistols were not yet available with a decocker. The note at the bottom is the most telling item.

There is nothing in the rules about proper decocking technique.

9X45, have you ACTUALLY been to an IDPA match? You really need to read the rules if you want to compete safely.
 
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Nightcrawler,

I hope your question is answered. The dissenters have been strangly quiet since their points have been answered. In summary:

1) Decocking with the trigger by controlling the hammer is a practice that requires care, but so does all gun handling. This method has to be used in many autos and all but DAO revolvers and was intended by the manufactorers.

2) You can lower the hammer this way in competition, notably IDPA.

3) This method is best used in a low stress situation. Just following some sort of "action" with your CZ, it would be better to apply the safety then try to lower the hammer with shaking hands.

4) As a method of carry, a DA first shot is often a safer and more immediate carry mode. The 1911 people would say that cocked and locked is a faster ACCURATE first shot, but when do you need that sort of accuracy when defending yourself at close range? A DA first shot eliminates fumbling and a gun that won't fire.

Don't be lured into only practicing SA shooting at the range. Give yourself that DA first shot fairly often to master it. It will also give you practice safely lowering the hammer.
 
Edit: 9x45... holy (#$*&%!!!

Handy: funny, I thought that getting the fastest accurate shot on target was the whole POINT. :rolleyes:

Oh, yeah, the reason second strike matters is that it is a common requirement of military pistol trials. CZ-75B was designed as a service pistol.
 
9x45

Well, you certainly seem worked up about this. I still think you should consult at the relevent section of the rule book on this matter.

I don't think we actually shoot at the same club. Many of the members shoot CZ's or Witness pistols hammer down in SSP. If you were a range officer there you'd probably have stopped them by now.

I like using the pasting gun. It's fun.

Are you really making enough money off me at only $5 a match? :D


Castlebravo,
I should have been clearer: since Nightcrawler isn't on a SWAT team, he'll be carrying on a CCW. Since you're rarely in the right shooting beyond 5 feet, DA is just as accurate for that sort of work.
 
9x45....Did someone hit a nerve? Take a deep breath or valium.
You voiced an opinion that made very little sense to alot of this board. We called you on it. You took a cheap shot at Handy...
and proved what? Where the hell did that come from.......you can say anything you want about me....wanna know why?. I DONT CARE!. Shoot well...
 
Ok guys, all sarcastic remarks aside. Handy, you have a serious safety issue if the RO's at your club let you lower the hammer on a CZ using your thumb to do so. Let me know what club you shoot at, and I will call Bill Wilson first thing on Monday morning, and he can let the area co-ordinator clear this up with the club RO's.
 
That would be great if Bill could clear this up! You could let him know that the rulebook he wrote is screwed up (CZ-75's listed in the SSP division) and the two of you can fix those fools at the Norfolk County Rifle Club. Here's their site for contact info: www.ncrr.net


By all means, let us know what the experts have to say. It should go something like this:

You: "Can a CZ-75 be shot in the SSP division?"

Bill: "Sure, it's even listed there."

You: "Cocked and locked?"

Bill: "Of course not, that would be ESP division rules. Hammers must start in the down position for SSP. Are you familiar with our rulebook?"

You: "But if a CZ-75 has no decocker, how can the shooter lower the hammer to shoot in SSP?"

Bill: "Well..."
 
AIN'T THIS FUN

I want nothing to do with anything labeled 'decocker'.

I don't care for hammer-down carry on a C&L gun. I lower my hammer safely IF REQUIRED.

I like wheels, too.

Accidents = zero, shots fired = lots.
 
I learned to shoot with single action revolvers without that pesky transfer bar safety. I own autos both with and without a decocker (including a pre-B CZ75). If it has one, I use it and if it doesn't, I'm just careful. To this day the only time I've ever had a firearm discharge when I didn't want it to was with a free pistol (50 gram trigger or so).

There is absolutely no reason that you cannot safely decock a firearm without using a decocker. If the gun has one, by all means use it. If the gun does not have a decocker, why worry about it?
 
Why has so much bandwidth been wasted on this? Either you are capable of handling a double action revolver of DA Semi-auto or you're not.

The CZ came from an era when a handgun was built to be accurate and easy to shoot accurately. If you have only grown up with weapons whose design is specified by lawyers or you don't want to learn how to be proficient with this setup get out of the way of those of us who are or who are willing to learn.

The DA revolver and DA Semi with no decocker are not for everyone. If they aren't for you, it does not make you less of a marksman. It means you know your limitations.
 
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