Double Action, no decocker?

N

Nightcrawler

New member
The standard CZ-75 pistol, apparently, is double action, yet has no decocker. (The CZ-75 BD Police does have a decocker, though)

Um, what's the point of that? You have to manually lower the hammer on a loaded chamber? That's dangerous. If your thumb slips, POW! Not a pleasant thought.

Is there something I'm missing here?
 
I think the point you are missing is "d/a" pistols..both semi and wheel guns have been made like this since the dawn of time.
The 75 can be carried cocked and locked or hammer down...it
has a firing pin block that allows safe carry, either way. The d"
cant be carried c and l. Only hammer down.

Decocking a gun with no decocker isnt a big deal if learned slowly
and done carefully from that point forward....

shootwell
 
As Eric noted, the CZ-75B is both DA and SA, allowing "cocked and locked" carry.

A gun that can start from SA generally doesn't have a decocker. (Several H&K models are exceptions.)

I've had a CZ-75B. I now have CZ-85 Combat. Love the guns.

If you've got to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber, you just do it carefully. With the 75B, the firing pin block (the "B" in the model designation) should keep you from an accidental discharge. [Pull back the hammer, hold it, pull the trigger to the rear, start to lower the hammer, and release the trigger.] With the trigger forward, the hammer will still go forward, but the firing pin can't be engaged.

With 85 Combat, no firing pin block, you've just got to be more Careful.
 
I suppose I could learn to live with that. Problem is, only the CZ-85 has ambidextrious controls, and if I'm going to carry locked and cocked I need to be albe to reach the saftey without fumbling.

The CZ-85 Combat fills most of my requirements for a 9mm pistol. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the firing pin saftey. I suppose I could just carry it locked and cocked like a high-power, or learn to be very careful, like with a revolver.
 
Take a look at CZ USA's website. Low and behold there is a CZ85B, the combat model with the firing pin safety. Could the decision finally be made for Nightcrawler?:) Even if you would have to order this gun, it will be well worth it.
 
The CZ-85 does have a lot of features I like. Plus, it's not a Beretta, so I'll have something different than my buddy. It's also not as bulky as the Beretta, either.

Hmm. I just might order that puppy. I wonder how long it'll take to arrive if I do?

But...according to the website, the CZ-85B and CZ-85 combat are two different models. The 85 combat has adjustable sights and the drop free magazine, but the standard 85B has the firing pin block saftey.

Hmm, it'd be down to one or the other. I could live without the firing pin block saftey (like they said, you just have to be careful, or carry locked and cocked, either of which is fine). I would really prefer drop-free magazines, too.

We'll see.
 
Nightcrawler,
The combat has alot of competition based features. A few people
have gotten the b" model and added the goodies they want then.
If you want the sight or even a race gun trigger and sear, its just
a phone call away. CZUSA has alot of stuff the 75/85 series.
The drop free mag brake issue, is easily fixed. Straighten the spring or replace it with a new one. Combat or "b", either way....they are both nice guns. Shoot well
 
You NEVER lower the hammer on a loaded chamber, NEVER! The correct way to make any semi-auto safe, including a D/A only weapon, is to pull out the mag, crank the slide to eject the one in the chamber, visually check the chamber, and then pull the trigger on the empty chamber.
 
Then what was the DA trigger for in all the guns that have it without a decocker? Or were they mis-designed?
 
Why never? Not being arguementative..just curious. I think my dads grandfather did it that way and we have all done it that way since. I see no problem with it, especially with all of the safety features available today...firing pin blocks..ect. I see know
logic or reason to your statement! Many gun manufacturers give instructions on how to do this, in the gun manuals and recommend it!
shoot well
 
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I was just thinking, 9X45 has created an impossible situation. If you cock a loaded Ruger Single Action, there is no way of unloading it without lowering the hammer-the cylinder won't rotate.

What are you talking about?!
 
The correct way to make any semi-auto safe, including a D/A only weapon, is to pull out the mag, crank the slide to eject the one in the chamber, visually check the chamber, and then pull the trigger on the empty chamber.
Click to expand...
Guess you don't have a DAO auto, do you?
 
Handy, I am talking about semi-autos, not single action revolvers.

Eric, no semi-auto manufacturer recommends lowering the hammer manually on a loaded chamber, and you would never be allowed to do this at a competitive event anyway. That is what the decocker is for.

Blackhack, having participated in competitive action pistol forums for over 30 years, I have shot every make of semi-auto made, and have owned several double action only guns over the years.

There are really only 2 kinds of semi-auto actions, the 1911 variant, cocked and locked, and every thing else is just a either a convetional double action, or double action only.
 
Straight from the CZ 75 Bible"

9x45...gotta disagree again. If you have been doing this for way longer than I have, which I respect, I dont understand your point of view. My cz compact has a firing pin block..along with other sundries that make is very safe to carry cond 1, just like your
1911 or hammer down. The following is from page 6 of the CZ 75 manual.
"The version equipped with a decocking device is not covered in this section!
Push the safety up to the Safety-On position (Fig. 4) until the red warning dot is covered. The safety in this position blocks the trigger mechanism and slide, thus preventing the pulling of the trigger and operating the slide. The safety can be engaged only when the hammer is cocked, and for this reason it is applied especially in the case of a short-term interruption of shooting.
Besides the method previously described it is possible to put the pistol into a safety mode and still be ready to fire immediately:
Load the pistol. Grasp the grip, POINT IN A SAFE DIRECTION. With thumb and index finger of the other hand hold the hammer firmly (Fig. 5), pull the trigger and release the hammer slowly and gradually until it rests on the firing pin stop. Release the trigger. Apply extreme caution when lowering the hammer to avoid an accidental discharge! We strongly recommend to practice this operation beforehand with the pistol unloaded.
In this state the pistol is safe for all normal handling and at the same time ready for immediate use. The design of this handgun incorporates the feature that the manual safety can not be applied when the hammer is not cocked in order not to reduce the readiness of the pistol for use by accidental engaging of the manual safety.
Please remember that the safest way to secure a pistol is to unload it and store it in a safe place!
Decocking
The version equipped with a manual safety is not covered in this section!
MAKE SURE THE PISTOL IS POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION and thumb down the decocking control lever (Fig. 6).
Pressing down the decocking control lever actuates the lowering of the hammer from the cocked position to the hammer safety notch position, without any need to pull the trigger. Even if there is a cartridge in the chamber the pistol is (hammer decocked) safe for all normal handling in this state, and ready for immediate use in a Double Action mode of fire."

You can download it from CZUSA if you want. I have seen it in other manuals. I wont agree with you on this one. I dont think
I ever mentioned competition...thats not really the issue. So, we will just have to agree to disagree. Maybe we can agree on something else later....shoot well and merry xmas
 
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What the hell is the difference between lowering a hammer on a revolver and lowering it on an auto? It poses the exact same mechanical problem! SA revolver, DA revolver, auto, if it's got a cockable hammer and no decocker, there is only one way of lowering the hammer. I'll bet most DA revolvers won't let you open the cylinder with a cocked hammer either.

Further, you CAN lower the hammer in competition-it's called IDPA and many shoot CZ derivatives in the SSP division-hammer down. It's specifically listed in their rulebook under the SSP division. http://www.idpa.com/rulebook5-2-01/rulebook_new.htm

9X45, when you make blanket statements like those you're just setting yourself up to be proved wrong and look foolish. If you have something thougtful to add, make your point with a paragraph that explains rather than a sentence that demands or dismisses.
 
"There are really only 2 kinds of semi-auto actions, the 1911 variant, cocked and locked, and every thing else is just a either a convetional double action, or double action only."
9x45......
I am sure you just named 3 types...all very different and independent from each other in the matter of mechanics and function.
My d/a snubbie .357 is identical in carrying hammer down in relation to my semi auto's...same process get me there and
same safeties keep me there.
shoot well
 
This is very simple, people.

CZ-75B & relatives... treat it like a Browning High-Power with second-strike capability. That's the only reason the DA feature is there. Carry C&L and quit worrying.

OR... get the CZ-75BD and have a decocker and quit worrying.

Or, if you are really greedy for features, get a USP and have a combination cocked and locked AND de-cocking capability in one safety lever. Costs twice as much as the CZ, but oh well.

Cheers. :D
 
CZ-75B & relatives... treat it like a Browning High-Power with second-strike capability. That's the only reason the DA feature is there.
Click to expand...

huh? I seriously doubt that. Lots of people carry DA/SA pistol without a decocker hammer down, like me. Does anyone use a second-strike capability? I think is overrated. I rather eject the round then try to strike it the second time.
 
Castle,
Who said anything about being worried? I like carrying hammer down, simple. I also like the features you mention on the 3 way
safety. Like the USP, my Taurus pt 940 had it..and I loved it.
And it wasnt twice as much as my CZ...USP nice gun.
Shoot well
 
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