"Domestic violence, restraining orders" and "gun rights"

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Well stated Rob, especially the part about the accuser having to essentially prove his innocence and the lack of a need for a permanent restraining order. And, the advice of "cut and run" is what the laws have provoked. Instead of staying in a difficult sitaution and working through tough times, many men leave and that's probably not bad advice given the laws.

Based on the legal analysis wildalaska has given in this scenario and on other boards, I'm curious to know exactly what his legal experience is. And, if he was sooooo good at it why is he an FFL dealer now?
 
its been my experience that those who are prone to outbursts of anger and rage do such to intimidate rather than vent their frustration. road rage is a good example.

true, the system has its deficiencies, and it is abused. reason #8350 why i choose to stay out of relationships in the first place. cant be accused of domestic violence if i'm not in any domestic relationships, can i?
 
Road rage is based almost entirely on frustration! People are frustrated because some Ahole just cut them off without using a blinker or is driving too slow in the passing lane and refuses to get out of the way. Where is the intimidation at flipping someone the bird or honking at them for their innane behavior???

I suppose that flipping someone the bird or honking is "violence" and should result in denial of gun rights?

Staying out of relationships isn't the answer. Any vindictive person that is upset with you can ALLEGE to the court and police and you could find yourself in deep trouble for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Ironically, my situation resulted from NOT having a relationship with my crazy neighbor, and she was probably scorned from that and the fact that I was on the board that decided to commence a lien and foreclosure and also I filed a police report against her for assault and this was her way of retaliating.

This area of the law is incredibly sexist against men and is free, open, and encouraged for women. I temporarily dated a woman that volunteered at a battered womens' shelter. As soon as I learned this about her I quietly left the relationship. She told me that they have a handbook on basically how to frivously ruin a mans life using the law (my words, not hers) -- ways to drain him financially, keep him away from her or their kids, keep him away from his friends, keep him away from certain addresses, make him lose his job, make him not be able to consume alcohol ever, make it difficult for him to date other women, make him forfeit his home and property, and take away his rights to gun and other weapons like knives.
 
I suppose that flipping someone the bird or honking is "violence" and should result in denial of gun rights?
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it appears that you have a very limited perception of what road rage is, as well as 'violent behavior'. what i'm talking about is trying to run someone off the road, following them for miles, chasing them, swerving towards their vehicle. maybe they dont want to kill me or injure me, but they do wish to intimidate me. and by doing such they are putting myself and others at risk.

in that light, road rage and wallpunchers are similar.



based on what i've read so far in this thread, i'm just waiting for someone to reminice about the 'good ol days' when you could just flat out beat your wife or your kids. :barf:
 
She told me that they have a handbook on basically how to frivously ruin a mans life using the law (my words, not hers) -- ways to drain him financially, keep him away from her or their kids, keep him away from his friends, keep him away from certain addresses, make him lose his job, make him not be able to consume alcohol ever, make it difficult for him to date other women, make him forfeit his home and property, and take away his rights to gun and other weapons like knives.
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:).

Difficult to date other women? I mean, there are so many women who just want to get with a guy in order to get him in trouble, it should be easier to find a date with a history of violence, because then you're an easier target for false police reports, right?

I don't think domestic violence suspects should get any extra due process that other criminal defendants don't get. It's a low down crime, and just like for a lot of low down crimes, I think much of the outcry is because people actually believe the "I didn't do anything!" half-baked stories.

Not that injustice never happens...I just don't think it's that much more than in any other area of petty criminal law.
 
Quite honestly, this thread is giving me second thoughts about whether ANYONE should be able to own a gun. Yeah, the ban them all thoughts.

Right now I think that I should be the only one to have guns. Why, because I've been one of the only ones to be me on the boards, know myself, and doesn't judge others and believes in what the 2nd states, not what I want it to state.

You beat your wife/husband, you go to jail. If you get out and do it again, the gallows. If you can't be trusted then you shouldn't be in society.

You have a human born anger problem, get it fixed or work on it. It does help to work on it, believe me.

I can't really explain my position, so many will of course discount it. It's a hard line to follow, being one that believes in Rights, and one that believes in CONSTITUTIONAL rule of law, but having a hard time just going to one corner or the other when it tramples all that I believe.

And TRO's are abused. I have a TRO against me right now by someone that has seemed to take a hatered to me (and he is from the boards) but luckly, the TRO is only effective in his state (on the east coast) and isn't in mine.

If I goto PA, I guess that I would be in trouble, but here on the west coast, they just spent their $50 for the TRO just to make a point (and he thought that it would disarm me here, silly "smart" idiot).

Oh, to add to the story, they sent my name and number (They brought up old threads to get it) to the March of Dimes on the Jail and Bail thing that they do :(. Not only did it hurt the charity when I expressed that I couldn't do it, it also showed how low people will go (and yes, they do give the name if asked for it.... and I have that name and number in case they are on here lurking).

Wayne
 
true, the system has its deficiencies, and it is abused. reason #8350 why i choose to stay out of relationships in the first place. cant be accused of domestic violence if i'm not in any domestic relationships, can i?
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Want to bet on that? Read Leadcounsels posts again, he experienced just such an accusation, and was very lucky to retain his 2nd ammendment rights. I have known people who are quite capable of deception in order to destroy someone's life in revenge for a perceived insult - most of us have known someone like that at some time.

And that, is the problem here. That we can lose our 2nd ammendment rights without ever having the opportunity to face a jury of our peers and attempt to get justice.

This whole discussion of what is and what isn't violence is irrelevant to the problem that was initially brought up (in which I too participated breifly). Leadcounsel is trying to alert us all to a real problem. I for one am grateful to that heads up alert, and it is worth discussing, without all of the keyboard violence.:eek:
 
That we can lose our 2nd ammendment rights without ever having the opportunity to face a jury of our peers and attempt to get justice.
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Ummmm......I might just be a poor recovering lawyer, but in most jurisdictions you are entitled to a jury trial for a misdemeanor and the civil aspects of 18 USC sec 922 are rather strictly construed, but hey, its far more fun just to advance ones agenda with rhetoric ne cest pas?

WildbutheywhyletthelawstandinthewayofinternetchestthumpinAlaska
 
Another point that our legal system reinforces which we should revisit:

One of the tantamount covenants of our judicial system that gets lost is that it is better that a guilty man goes free than to convict an innocent man.

Let's keep that in mind too.
 
Wild,

Then why was it that this person was able to get and maintain a TRO against me, with a judge in PA and I'm here in OR, for about 2 months now?

I wasn't served, I didn't even know anything about it until I got the TRO in the mail saying that I was to stay 1000 (I can't remember feet or yards) from this person and no contact, including the board?

I know what the US Code states, but then you have states rights, as in the state judge issues the TRO and that is why even though he thought that I would be disarmed, the feds won't enforce the order, as neither will my state.

I'm just trying to show that TRO's are abused, that because one is issued on one's say so, shouldn't ban them their rights from gun ownership.

I find it strange that you haven't PM'd me your name (full) and address so I can prove that I can get a TRO against you and maybe ruin your business. I always say, put your money where your month is, if I can't get a TRO, you're fine, if I can, may cause some hardship.

If anyone doesn't think that these systems aren't abused and can take an innocent man's/women's livehood from them, then think again. And it happens every day.

Wayne
 
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If some wench gets a guy all riled up, and storms out of the room, and he wheels around (in the opposite direction of which way she went) and whales the t.v. remote control at the far wall... That's violence?!

WildAlaska replies:

And yeah, thats violence. Thats a childrish iimature temper tantrum and if some "wench" gets ya worked up so bad ya got to toss things like a screaming uncontrollble 5 year old you shouldnt own guns
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WA, you know that there is a significant percentage of people who do have childish and immature temper trantrums, people that toss things and scream. You have categroically stated that you believe that they should not own guns.

You sell guns IIRC, and since you sell guns to people without knowing spcecifically which ones are the tantrum throwers, then you knowingly sell guns to people who should not, in your opinion, be allowed to have them. You just don't know specifically which ones they are out of the daily group. So, your stated beliefs are suspened in situations where you can make a profit. Or else your stated beliefs are not true. One or the other. Talk about your internet chest thumper....

Or have you come up with a really good rationalization to protect your beliefs from the reality of your actions?

in most jurisdictions you are entitled to a jury trial for a misdemeanor and the civil aspects of 18 USC sec 922 are rather strictly construed, but hey, its far more fun just to advance ones agenda with rhetoric ne cest pas?
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From Post 16
These laws are not related to domestic violence and are too easy to pass and are way too heavy handed. Further, many of these are "civil law" violations with civil law burdens of proof and no right to a jury trial, yet carry significant criminal penalties. Can someone tell me how these are related and why you should lose your gun rights for violating a civil law (relating to restraining orders).
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OK, so which is correct, WA or Leadcounsel on this?
 
Then why was it that this person was able to get and maintain a TRO against me, with a judge in PA and I'm here in OR, for about 2 months now?
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TROs are like lawsuits, anyone can start one.

I wasn't served, I didn't even know anything about it until I got the TRO in the mail saying that I was to stay 1000 (I can't remember feet or yards) from this person and no contact, including the board?
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Its a meaningless order.

even though he thought that I would be disarmed, the feds won't enforce the order, as neither will my state.
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Read the statute that would anwer your questions.

I find it strange that you haven't PM'd me your name (full) and address so I can prove that I can get a TRO against you and maybe ruin your business. I always say, put your money where your month is, if I can't get a TRO, you're fine, if I can, may cause some hardship.
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I can see why someone already has a TRO against you. Go for it dude, find me and perjure yourself....

WildhopefullythemodswillbounceyoufromthisBoardtooAlaska
 
You sell guns IIRC, and since you sell guns to people without knowing spcecifically which ones are the tantrum throwers, then you knowingly sell guns to people who should not, in your opinion, be allowed to have them. You just don't know specifically which ones they are out of the daily group. So, your stated beliefs are suspened in situations where you can make a profit. Or else your stated beliefs are not true. One or the other. Talk about your internet chest thumper....
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Dude if I had the power to chose who gets a gun and who doesnt, only me and spiff would own them and Im not sure about me.

WildpsstudyuponposthocergopropterhocstatementsAlaska
 
WA, you know that there is a significant percentage of people who do have childish and immature temper trantrums, people that toss things and scream.
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PPS...not in my social or cultural mileau there arent, and I doubt that among my customers there arent either

WilddifferentcirclesigatherAlaska
 
PPS...not in my social or cultural mileau there arent, and I doubt that among my customers there arent either
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Doesn't wash. Besides, you sell on the internet as well. That's not even a good rationalization.
 
I can see why someone already has a TRO against you.
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You in secret love with me also? I can't handle two bo's at the same time there Wild :D.

I am using this argument to express a point on how they, court orders, can be abused, but I'm really interested in what you "see" so maybe I can either adapt or change my life. For this one, you can PM me without a name or address :).

Wayne
 
Doesn't wash. Besides, you sell on the internet as well. That's not even a good rationalization.
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Nor is post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning.

I will note...in over 8,000 transfers since 1992 we have had 6 "traces"...4 of them from guns sold to another dealer....

WildwhatthatsworthidontknowbutlooksgoodAlaska
 
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