"Domestic violence, restraining orders" and "gun rights"

Status
Not open for further replies.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/ipvfacts.htm

CDC states that men are the abuses 5 out of 8 times; the flip side is that women are the abusers 3 out of 8 times. Yet we're all led to believe that women are abused by men most of the time. Just because the man is generally bigger and stronger, there are other less obvious types of abuse.

Yet who has more to lose. Since men generally are the gun owners, it's men, and ultimately free society, with more to lose than women.

I suspect that most of this antigun legislation was pushed through by leftists and women.
 
For the record, I believe that yelling at someone or hitting a wall or throwing a remote control or whatever is NOT violence. It’s a healthy way to express human and animal emotions without harming any person. Yet it’s viewed by the law as violence. The law is unrealistic that people are going to behave civilly in any and all circumstances. I tend to think that yelling can be a healthy venting. Of course, not all the time, but in an extreme circumstance. So if some of you perfect people disagree, so be it.

I don’t believe that yelling, punching a wall, pointing, etc. should ever warrant losing your gun rights any more than is should warrant your losing your rights to be in the presence of anything else that can be used as a weapon. Further, if you’re a free man/woman, then you should be able to own guns. IF you’re too violent for that, then you should be locked up.

Some of you may wonder why this issue is so important to me personally. I will share a brief story with you to bring this in context.

Some time ago I served on a the condominium board of homeowners where I live. I have a female neighbor that I had known on a neighborly basis for several years, but never had any intimate relationship with her. She and I are about the same age. In the years I lived there, I had a few serious girlfriends, but my neighbor often asked me out on dates and I rejected her. I have always believed my neighbor to be vindictive, ruthless, and just not stable or sane so I’ve kept my distance as best possible. She was also often unemployed and delinquent on her monthly dues for many years and owned about $6000 in past dues, which she never intended on paying. As a board member, I was responsible for voting to place a lien on her home and foreclosing over time.

Around the time that we threatened foreclosure, my neighbor started harassing me by calling, knocking over my trashcans, calling animal control on my dog, flattening my tires, glaring, etc. One time I made the mistake of going to her home to confront her about this (I generally don’t like getting the law involved and wasting their time on minor incidents, but in hindsight should have). She assaulted and battered me by slapping me in the face (which completely took me by surprise) screaming at me, pointing in my face, and raising her fist toward me. I left and called the police. The asked if we were intimate, and we both said the truth, “No.” They took my report and took her report and issued her a ticket (but would have been required to make an arrest if there was evidence that we were intimate). At the time, my neighbor said that we were not intimate and she also never said anything about her being assaulted.

Fast forward 40 days later: I was served with a temporary restraining order alleging an intimate relationship, assault against her, and domestic violence! If convicted of any of these I would lose my job, my legal license, my gun rights, and likely face prison time! These allegations didn’t cost my neighbor a penny. Meanwhile, pursuant to the order, I could not be within 100 yards of the “victim” and could not possess a gun! I had to immediately vacate my home and move in with a friend across town initially 10 days and then another month because the case was continued. I also had to immediately have a friend come and collect ALL, every last one, of my guns and bullets and any other deadly weapons (knives, swords, etc.) for fear of violating the order. Rather embarrassingly, I had to air the dirty laundry of this whole allegation to my employer (lest I be arrested and have to explain for a restraining order “violation”), my friends who would act as character witnesses, etc. I later learned that this woman was involved in several other restraining orders against other men and a business (animal shelter) once took one out against her for trespassing and threating the employees on a regular basis.

The penalties I was facing were severe. Serious jail time and serious contempt fines.

Imagine this scenario for a moment. I don’t know for certain her reasons, and likely never will, but I believe it’s a combination of being romantically rejected, having a lien and foreclosure placed on her home, and my having filed a police report against her. She snapped and it was very very very bad for me.

The Outcome:
Despite severe criminal penalties, I had no right to a jury trial. The judge was a woman sympathetic to the causes of women as victims and her courtroom was the family law court. The evidence rules are relaxed and hearsay is admissible. I had to hire a lawyer for $5,000. It was the most stressful time in my life and it consumed me. I ate, slept, drank, and thought about this case and the ruin it would cause in my life.

The trial went remarkably well. The woman’s case was a clear sham. Her own witnesses told the truth and refused to lie for her and it worked in my favor. Some things that saved me were 1) I filed the first report 2) This court was familiar with her regular restraining order appearances 3) She was her own lawyer and did a bad job and didn't have any witnesses who were willing to lie -- all 6 of her witnesses were actually damaging to her case -- which is a mistake that she would not have made if she had a lawyer, 4) I had a very expensive and very good lawyer. The real thing that saved me was that I didn't do what she alleged and she badly failed to support her allegations. I didn’t have to present a single piece of evidence and the case was a directed verdict in my favor and the DV case never materialized.

HOWEVER, if this woman would have hired a lawyer to avoid some pitfalls that made her case so awful, or if she had a friend or two willing to lie, of if she would have done a few things differently, I could easily be in prison and/or have no gun rights, be unemployed, lost my law license which is invaluable, etc.

It was literally as close of a brush with being a criminal that I would ever want to have.

The case cost me a lot money and wasted time and energy which is lost forever. It was monumentally stressful.

It cost her nothing but a few lies.

It brought to my attention the seriousness of this issue on a local and national level for any and all pro gun activists. Be careful in your steps and look into your own state laws and contact the legislature if you think these laws are too easily abused.

It’s estimated that the majority of DV and restraining orders are abusive by the system, and this makes the legitimate cases appear illegitimate.

No one is advocating true violence or abuse. However, what I am advocating is that each case be scrutinized to make sure that there is true violence or abuse and it’s not just a convenience or mandatory action.

Also, unless there is a specific threat with a gun, anti-gun laws have no business in this type of action.

Hope this has been informative. I’ve enjoyed the discussion and alerting others about these unfair anti gun laws.
 
Per the bureau of justice statistics:
73% of family violence victims were females
84% of victims of spousal violence were female
75% of family violence offenders were male
80% of family violence murders were commited by males
 
For the record, I believe that yelling at someone or hitting a wall or throwing a remote control or whatever is NOT violence. It’s a healthy way to express human and animal emotions without harming any person.

Im not an animal. Violent behavior isnt healthy. Go for a run if ya get all worked up.

WildsomeoneelsecandealwiththisAlaska
 
73% of family violence victims were females
84% of victims of spousal violence were female
75% of family violence offenders were male
80% of family violence murders were commited by males

Easy answer to this problem:

BAN MALES

Wayne

*Oh, before you start to think that I'm in favor of wife beaters (or husband beaters), I'm not.

I just think that a law which doesn't give you due process is wrong. Make the law Constitutional and then I will agree with it.
 
The Lautenberg Amendment, especially the ex-post-facto aspects, IMHO is not right -- at the least it needs re-working to put more safeguards in.

Domestic Violence is REALLY not right -- in any way, shape, or form.

The misogyny exhibited by many of the posters on this thread is REALLY REALLY not right, and should stop right now.:mad:
 
As a society we have a disproportional number of african americans, FOR INSTANCE, in prison.

To argue by analogy, is it truly men who are more abusive, or is it a system that is preconditioned to view the women as victims and the men as perpetrators? Additionally, the figures aren't representative because less men report abuse than women.

Would it surprise you that there are TAX FUNDED women only shelters and women only domestic violence advocacy centers, but no such male only shelters and centers, and men are not allowed? Why is this? Fair?

Go for a run...

Yeah, right.... that's always realistic.
 
I suspect that most of this antigun legislation was pushed through by leftists and women.
I suspect that most of the mass-murderering dictators who have ever pushed their way into power were male -- and right-wing by their own country's standards.

pax

A great many people mistake opinions for thoughts. -- Herbert V. Prochnow
 
If yelling is violent, and not yelling is non-violent - what decibel level determines when violence is being committed? Stating that yelling is violence sounds good rhetorically, but has no meaning without an objective standard of measurement.

If hitting a wall is violent - who is the victim? Inanimate ojects are not victims.

If my Constitutional right to own firearms can be revoked without a criminal conviction by a jury of my peers, then my Constitutional right has been violated. Change the scenario to right to worship and you will see it. For instance, if the law said that if I was accused of DV that I could no longer worship in any Church?

Confiscating my guns on the basis that I might committ a crime is wrong on more levels than I have the patience to enumerate. Thought crime anyone?
 
Last edited:
I suspect women gave birth to those dictators and raised many of them... :D

Kidding aside, point taken Pax. This isn't intended as a sexist forum. The POINT of this is to raise awareness of legislation that could easily and unfairly strip a gun owner forever of his gun rights without Constitutional protections such as the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 14th, and, of course the 2nd Amendment.

This should concern ALL Americans, men, women, gun owners and non gun owners alike.
 
Then raise the issue with your legislators, both state and federal. They are the ones making laws. Get a grass roots lobby going. Find a case that has merit and standing and support the defendent with your money so that he might have a better chance at overturning current law.
 
sendec said:
"My little brother cannot work in any establishment which handles kids in NC where he lives, because his ex-wife reported that he molested her kids. Nevermind there was no conviction charges filed, an arrest or that he was even detained. "

But was the abuse substantiated? Plenty of cases of child abuse are substantiated, but no charges are filed for a number of reasons such as the child's inability to testify or lack of evidence. Lack of charges does not automatically prove innocence.


Sendec, you claim to be a cop.
Whether you are or are not a cop is really irrelevant:
Your avowed attitude regarding presumption of innocence -- a GUARANTEED RIGHT OF AMERICANS -- is SICKENING.

Based on this statement, it seems you are perfectly okay with people having their rights infringed, with people being treated as though they've been convicted, even though they have never been charged.

We KNOW that lack of charges does not automatically prove innocence. What we also know -- and you disgracefully do not seem to -- is that people cannot be punished if they have not been convicted.

And that's exactly what being stripped of your right to keep and bear arms based on someone's fear of you (whether justified or not) amounts to. It's punishment for a crime for which you have been neither charged nor convicted.

A cop who doesn't know that the accused have rights, and that innocence is maintained until a court makes a finding of guilty, should turn in his tarnished badge.


-blackmind
 
wildalaska said:
And yeah, thats violence. Thats a childrish iimature temper tantrum and if some "wench" gets ya worked up so bad ya got to toss things like a screaming uncontrollble 5 year old you shouldnt own guns


Don't go assuming I'm talking about me.


If you believe that yelling, and possibly throwing inanimate things at other inanimate things that are one's own property is "violence," then you're not living in reality. That's absurd.


Leadcounsel has it right 100% when he says this:
For the record, I believe that yelling at someone or hitting a wall or throwing a remote control or whatever is NOT violence. It’s a healthy way to express human and animal emotions without harming any person. Yet it’s viewed by the law as violence. The law is unrealistic that people are going to behave civilly in any and all circumstances. I tend to think that yelling can be a healthy venting. Of course, not all the time, but in an extreme circumstance. So if some of you perfect people disagree, so be it.

I don’t believe that yelling, punching a wall, pointing, etc. should ever warrant losing your gun rights any more than is should warrant your losing your rights to be in the presence of anything else that can be used as a weapon. Further, if you’re a free man/woman, then you should be able to own guns. IF you’re too violent for that, then you should be locked up.

Pay close attention to the last sentence. It contains a lot of wisdom.

-blackcan'tbelievehecan'tgetthroughtoalaskamind
 
wildalaska said:
Violent behavior isnt healthy. Go for a run if ya get all worked up.


Yeah, then you'll tell us that pounding the pavement with one's feet is "violence." :rolleyes:

After all, it would be done out of the same frustration that would have led to the "violent yelling"...


-blackmind
 
If you believe that yelling, and possibly throwing inanimate things at other inanimate things that are one's own property is "violence," then you're not living in reality. That's absurd.

My wife, my family, my friends all prefer my absurd reality of non violence than yours of throwing things and yelling.

Then again i was raised to beleive that one talks instead of yells, discusses instead of argues, and limits "tossing object temper tantrums" to the 5 year old set..

Then again, I read books intead of play video games, dont listen to rap music and think women should be treated like ladies rather than "biatches". Must be a difference in generations.

WildpeaceandloveAlaska
 
Um, you were the one who brought up the term "biatches." I never even mentioned it.


And you persist in thinking (incorrectly) that I myself act in the manner you described.


If you are not able to use normal intelligence to figure out the difference between stating that yelling and/or throwing a remote control is not violence, and actually doing the yelling and throwing, then trying to discuss anything with you is futile.

You act like you are not even reading the same words that are being typed on the screen, and from there you proceed to "answer" arguments or claims that were never even put forth.

I guess this must be what it feels like to be a counselor to a schizophrenic or something. :(

-blackmind
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top