Does RAP music cause violence?

S

snacktrack

New member
Now, I know this is a touchy subject, and it involves stereotypes. But, I feel its a very important subject matter,and I think there needs to be some accountability on the part of the artists and record labels that distribute music promoting murder and violence.

Now, before all of you guys start calling me Tipper Gore, and a racist, and all that. I think I need to explain my background. I started listening to rap when I was 7 years old with RUN Dmc. My older brother became a DJ at 13 and I would go to all the parties, and he bought just about every album that came out. We built a recording studio when I was 17, and started producing local hip hop groups. I was producing one of the biggest rappers in Delaware until he went to jail. By the time I was in college, around 19, I was introduced to many other types of music and I simply grew out of rap. I started listening to different world music, techno, female artists, classic rock, and many more.

Anyway, as someone who has listened to rap almost all their life, I can judge its content and know what I am talking about. Also as someone who knows the behind the scenes with rap labels, I know what goes on. THere are some talented rappers out there that dont promote violence, but their voices washed out by the violent lyrics of the most infulential artists.

I am bringing this touchy subject on a gun forum because as many of you know rappers are quite known for gun toting. There is a reason for this. Many rappers are ex drug dealers who have bridged the gap to being an entertainer. What hasnt changed however, is the mentality of being a drug dealer. Drug dealers must use deadly force to maintain respect and territory.

I want to use one example of an ex drug dealer turned rapper as an example for this thread. 50 Cent is one of the biggest rappers out right now. He drives in a bullet and bomb proof Cherokee.
"He has been stabbed and put in jail numerous times.in 2000, 50 cent was shot 9 times in front of his grandmothers house and rumours started he went back to selling crack"

I am going to quote his lyrics from a song called "My Buddy" which is taken from a commercial in the 80's about a doll for boys called "my buddy" but Ill let you guys figure out who "my buddy is" in this song.

chorus

My Buddy, my buddy
Where ever I go, he go
My Buddy, my buddy
You can run for your life when I stick him out da window
My buddy, my buddy
I'll lay ya ass out motha ****a its simple
Stay in yo place I recommend or say hello to my little friend

verse 1

Everywhere I go I gotta tag along
Cuz mah buzz gettin strong and they mad I'm on
He ride wit me when I pass the mall
Don't wait for me on da bench when I run a game of basketball
One squeeze will make a bastard fall, gasp and crawl
You need a bulletproof vest, mask n all
Bring ya buddy when its time to roam (Why?)
Cuz I got hit last time I left mine at home
My hand bling full of platinum, da shine is chrome
He even got closet space inside mah home
He aint never been broke, he glitchless
He so reliable I bought him a rubber coat for Christmas
Infared beam and a scope for distance
Da best company when approachin business
He gon ride wit me till da end
We all gotta friend and mine is a G U N

verse 2

My buddy got a temper
He dyin to pop off
Last time he did da cops had da block all locked off
Take him wit me to hussle, stashed him in da trash can
My fingertips sore from four hours of back grams
You meet him
Your destination hell or heaven
Cuz I only bring him out for that 187
He dun have a heart
I juss keep feedin him shells
He get it poppin in da hood, so his name ring bells
Ms.Jones stayed on da third floor
She called da cops on me
Dey came, I ran, I had to toss my humble lil homie
Niggaz know I got new friends, so they stay in dere place kid
I stay screamin on niggaz and beatin up base heads
These niggaz sayin donnie juss like it pretend
Keep **** around and say hello to my little friend (Gun shots)

verse 3

We been through it all, and yet we both still leavin
We been in da box, but we both still spittin
And when it was beef
You even played yo position, got under da seat
Until we spotted our victim
At first dey wouldn't listen until they herd you go off
Rememba it was broad daylight in da middle of New York
And lil did they know we was ready for war
I bet the nigga wish he never stuck his head out da door
See whenever you come out sumthin happen on da block
You da reason that nigga dun stop rappin like Pac
People see you and run n you aint even say ****
They juss know you aint nuttin to play wit
You stayed wit sixteen homies and one in da hole
When da first one get out da next one goes
To know in ya head you gotta know where you been
Da glock stays wit me
We friends to da end

Now, the problem is, I am a supporter of the first amendment. I think its dangerous to tell artists what they can and cant write. Most rappers and record labels will tell you its just entertainment, no different from video games, or movies. It IS different though. Music has a tremendous impact on youth. Most rappers will say" Hey Im not a role model" But in fact, you dont have to be a positive role model to be one, you can be a negative role model. The rappers of today are the heroes. They drive expensive cars and flash stacks of cash. To me, thats not the problem. It is teaching kids that life is not precious what so ever, and to gun down anyone trying to get in your way. Although many songs rappers write are extremely embellished and outright lies, they do show the outright disregard for human life and dignity, which is what I have a problem with.

So, I open to the forum to you guys to see what your thoughts are. I know I will receive alot of name calling for this post, but I think this should be an intersting subject to deabte.
 
this question sounds similar to "do guns cause violence?" it is an impossible question to answer, simply because what makes violent individuals tick can not be quantified to any single medium like tv, music, or easy access to deadly weapons. you listen to rap music, has it ever made you want to go out and pop a cap in someones bottomside?

it is a legitimate problem that some kids grow up with people like drug dealing musicians who think that their actions have no consequences as role models. it definitely begs the question, "where are the parents?"

IMHO, if you want to find the root of the problem you have to look at how the average nuclear family structure has changed in this country over the last century. rap music and it's associated violence is a symptom and not a problem in and of itself.
 
It can cause violence. I think it comes down to the parents teaching their kids. I listened to rap when I was a 13, but I was taught that gunning someone down was wrong . There isn't much you can really do about rap. To censor violence, you would have to censor just about every aspect of life. You would even have to censor the history of the world as it is taught to kids.
 
Perhaps we can answer this with a rhetorical question. What is rap other than poetry set to a musical beat? There are good poems and bad poems. Political poetry tends to run in one of two directions, either the direction designed to build up esteem and group ethos or the opposite designed to degrade and dehumanize people.

I don't recall Robert Frost nor Paul Simon ever writing any poetry which degraded women, dehumanized other ethnic groups nor incited people to kill police. Come to think of it I don't even remember radicals like Woody Guthrie nor Pete Seeger inciting violence. So even though everyone didn't agree with them they didn't incite retaliation and censure.

If I recall there have been some pretty strong laws about sedition and incitement to violence dating all the way back to the Revolution. These were interpreted separately from the first amendment, which actually applies to political dissidence. So if certain rap artists end up inciting children to a violent lifestyle, the community has a precident to react and rain **** down on their heads. Which is the logical consequence of their actions, but it won't be the end of the process.

Instead I would anticipate that as rap matures people will see that the violent rappers weed themselves out by Darwinian evolution, just like unstable musicians of other styles have done. You can probaly name dozens of non-rap musicians and poets who were murdered, died of overdoses and suicided. 80 years later we don't remember the drug addicted, alcoholic wife beating jazzmen of the 20's do we? No, we remember the ones who survived. Who listens to Janis Joplin? Who still watches John Belushi videos?
 
Who listens to Janis Joplin? Who still watches John Belushi videos?
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Uh...I still love 'em both. But I agree with the gist of your post.
I'm with RedHawk41 in that it sounds too much like the "guns cause violence" argument to say that rap causes violence. People have the right to listen to it. Still, they do not have the right to make me listen to it. Schools and stores and such have the right to restrict it. Radio stations have the right to choose not to play it. Parents certainly have the right to downright outlaw it within the home.

Freedom's just another word for "nothin' else to lose--JJ. Rock on.
 
Lt. Col. David Grossman's book, "Stop Teaching Our Children to Kill" discusses desensitizing individuals to taking a life. Rap doesn't cause people to kill, but combined with other factors, can desenstize. It all depends on the individual, their maturity, degree of parental supervision and control and the environment.
 
Hey redhawk, I do agree with the issue of the nuclear family. I think the #1 cause of kids growing up to be violent is the lack of parenting. You NEED to have a mother and a father I believe. And that is why I didnt in fact grow up to be violent. I had the luxury of growing up in a hardworking home, a home that nutured my abilities. My mom always taught me I could do anything in the world.

These kids dont have someone teaching them these things. Its cool to be ignorant and violent.

What is rap other than poetry set to a musical beat? There are good poems and bad poems. Political poetry tends to run in one of two directions, either the direction designed to build up esteem and group ethos or the opposite designed to degrade and dehumanize people.
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Yes most definitely. But where the difference lies is, rap music has gripped the ENTIRE country's youth, white, black, asian. It is by far the largest selling music genre worldwide. It doesnt have the effect a poem does, it is much greater. You have music videos where kids see these guys in their cars, and their jewelry, and they want to be like that. A poem simply does not have the effect that a whole culture of music does such as rap.

The kids who dont become violent most likely dont because of how they were raised. I turned out fine, but I believe its because of my truck driver dad who instilled the respect for hard work in me. But imagine a kid with nothing, who can be recruited as early as 13 or 14 dealing drugs who can make a thousand dollars a week or much more? I mean, I worked at a bike shop when I was 14. I made 4.50 an hour. Imagine making 20 times that? ALl you need is extreme low self esteem, no parents to care what you do, and no respect for others and you are on a path to be one of those BG's

Why cant the teaching of rap music be considered part of a youth's upbringing if he has no voice of authority telling him what is right and wrong. In effect these rappers become their only role models, and they are not good ones.
 
Hmmm…

Proverbial can-o-worms here but I see where you are going with this so lets add to the fire.

I think it’s more of culture than anything and such trivial things affect certain cultures like music quicker than others. The main culture that most immediately associate with rap music is young black males and statically speaking this is the same group who is more likely to commit violent crimes but they are also more likely to be a victim of violent crimes, something like 25% of all between 12 and 24 if I remember the numbers correctly.

They comprise only 1% of the total population they account for 5% of the above.

Here is some more interesting statistics

· Weapons violations are committed by Blacks at nearly 5 times the rate for Whites;
· Blacks are caught receiving or buying stolen property at nearly 5 times the rate for Whites;
· Blacks are involved in prostitution at almost 4 times the rate for Whites;
· Blacks are arrested for drug crimes at over 4 times the rate for Whites;
· Blacks are more than three times as likely as Whites to be caught at forgery, counterfeiting, and fraud, and almost three times as likely to be caught at embezzlement;
· Blacks are more than 3 times as likely to be thieves as Whites;
· Blacks are more than 4 times as likely to commit assault as Whites;
· Blacks are almost 4.5 times as likely to steal a motor vehicle;
· Blacks are more than 5 times as likely to commit forcible rape as Whites;
· Blacks are over 8 times as likely to commit murder as Whites;
· Blacks are more than 10 times as likely to commit robbery as Whites;
· Nearly 25% of all Black males between the ages of 20 and 29 are in jail or on probation - this does not include those wanted or awaiting trial;
· For all violent crimes considered together, Blacks are almost 5.5 times more likely to commit violent criminal acts than Whites; all this according to the FBI 2002/2003 Uniform Crime Report.
(OLDER FIGURES HERE)
Before the topic of race and crime in America is disposed of, it is worth emphasizing a few cardinal points from the FBI:
· In 1988, there were ten cases of White men raping Black women, but Black men raped White women in 9,405 cases.
· White criminals attack Blacks only two per cent of the time.
· Of 629,000 interracial attacks recorded in 1985, fully 90 per cent were Black on White. That bears repeating. Ninety per cent of interracial attacks consisted of Blacks attacking Whites, not the other way around. This is worth repeating again, as the state of the media and the racial power balance has reached the point where much prominence is given to so-called "hate crimes" where Whites are seen to be attacking Blacks. In reality, the exact reverse is true: Blacks attack Whites in a ratio of 9 to 1 times; but because of the anti-White sentiment which has crept in as a result of the shifting demographics, this fact is not only ignored, but deliberately suppressed by the controlled media, even through it is freely available from the FBI for those who want to make the effort to go and get it.
 
Yes, rap music causes violence, just like comic books, cop TV shows, video games, GIJoe, PG movies and sleeveless T-shirts. Further, McDonalds causes obesity and MTV causes teen pregnancy.


JSandi,
Those statistics really lose their "interest" when they are corrected for income. As it turns out, poverty and crime are much more closely related than race. Strangely, blacks are much more likely to be born poor than whites. Funny.

Statistics are powerful tools for propping up prejudices. You could also "prove" that city people are more violent the rural people, and that renters are more violent than homeowners. All of which equally miss the point.
 
Instead I would anticipate that as rap matures people will see that the violent rappers weed themselves out by Darwinian evolution, just like unstable musicians of other styles have done.
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Thats the thing. Rap music used to be funny, harmless, even educational. It is getting exponentially worse as far as violence goes. In fact with the war on drugs still raging on, and the gap between the rich and poor even farther I think you will see things are going to get far worse.

I'm just bringing this subject to light, there are no right or wrong opinions. They is a million way sto look at it. I simply am saying rap DEFNINTELY has an impact on youth to be violent, IMO.

I install systems in cars for a living. I work on many drug dealers cars. The one customer who has the most money is a drug kingpin. He also has a RAP music label. Let me tell you, music doesnt make any money, unless you are really big time. You make pennies. However, crack dealing is a guaranteed million dollar money maker. Even though this guy is nice to me, and he is a hell of a business man, he has gained respect for his ability to carry out violence on his competitors. Do you realize how many rappers have funded their records through crack dealing? All across America, other guys like this guy who are Heroes in their community. He drives a Bentley in the projects. Now, he can sell his album to these same kids and preach his philosphy. He doesnt talk about being a rapper and music in his lyrics, he talks about crack slangin and poppin caps.
The impact of this is pretty hard to ignore.

I really feel for parents who really care if their kids turn out to be murderers or not, cause they got some major competition on the block.
 
handy has raised an interesting point as far as poverty and crime are concerned. it appears that the easiest way to get out of poverty is to become a criminal.
 
as rap matures
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Quite possibly the funniest 3 words I've ever read.

Rap music doesn't cause violence. Living like uncivilized animals causes violence. People of every race, ethnicity, creed, etc... have - at various times and circumstances - chosen to live like animals, and invariably they behave like the vermin they are. When they do, they should be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly, rather than being returned to the population at large to create more havok, and to breed more animals like themselves. Places that do so suffer less from the influence of the animalistic. Places that don't (think Bahstun, or Neuw Yawk, or Los Anghellese) are rife with animals.

On rare occasions people raised in said animal environs will lift themselves out of poverty/stupidity/animalism, but they are rare birds. Such is life.
 
Those statistics really lose their "interest" when they are corrected for income. As it turns out, poverty and crime are much more closely related than race. Strangely, blacks are much more likely to be born poor than whites. Funny.

Statistics are powerful tools for propping up prejudices. You could also "prove" that city people are more violent the rural people, and that renters are more violent than homeowners. All of which equally miss the point.
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Won’t go into the argument of statistics vs. whatever…

But speaking from real life experience as a cop I can tell you that the greater majority of the violent crimes I’ve worked have been perpetrated by young black males and that the preponderance of people incarcerated presently at all the jails I deal with are young black males…

Young black males all seem to have this fixation with rap, gangs, selling dope for a living and generally being a criminal.

We are currently seeing a pattern among black males as young as 11 who are showing up in our jails with full blown tattoos which are inscribed across their chest the words

“THUGS LIFE”

They have their gang names on their forearms and across their backs are hash marks.

One for each time they’ve been locked up.

Go figure…
 
Thanks J Sandi. I think you provide some good insight into the whole culture.

I understand you cant pin one's ability to commit murder on a type of music. But ask yourself this question. Does having a loving mother and father, possibly a belief in a higher power, or having good teachers who urge you to use your talents have a GOOD impact on your life? Of course they do. So why cant the voice of these guys heroes who are bragging about murdering have the opposite effect on kids?
 
We are currently seeing a pattern among black males as young as 11 who are showing up in our jails with full blown tattoos which are inscribed across their chest the words: THUGS LIFE
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By the way, this kind of tattoo was made popular by rapper Tupac Shakur, who was gunned down and murdered.

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IMHO, rap music doesn't cause anything. However, coupling the provocative, violent, incindiary and mysoginistic words images that are predominant in rap with the 'hip hop' or 'gangsta' lifestyle which is hyped by the media and seen on the street can be a dangerous combination. I believe that there is an overwhelming desire to fit in, to be recognized, to be RESPECTED in that lifestyle and that the incessantly violent word images found in rap reinforce that need and have an almost brainwashing effect. Add to this mix a 'culture of victihood', self loathing, a pervasive sense of hopelessness/helplessness, a refusal to buy into or trust 'society' and the rampant criminal hustling that it takes to live day to day and you have quite the combination for excessively violent acting out.

Contributes to...doesn't necessarily cause. ymmv
 
At an E-club in Okinawa they only played country music and sometimes classic rock at night.

This was because rap music caused too many fights. I didn't see anything in writing, but this is what I was told by the management.

Personally, I think rap music can cause violence. It is different than the "guns cause violence" topic mainly because guns are tools in the hands of man; whereas, rap music is an influential and mainstream form of entertainment for young people.

I am almost 24 and when I was in high school rap music meant you were cool. If you blared the likes of Handel, Enya or even George Strait you were not cool.
 
Its caused a few arguments in my house I think its crap and do not want it in my house My teen age girls think Iam old fashion because I don't like it. Tough my house my rules .
 
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