Perldog007>> One question I have to ask is this: Have you ever been a licensed business owner, with employees, with payroll, with customers, with all the insurance and liability regulations? If not, try it for a few years and then get back to those of us who have been there and dealt with it so you can tell us how terribly wrong we're seeing the business world. Otherwise you're armchair quarterbacking to the Nth degree.
No, and no. I have not been in that position. I understand why those that are go with the flow most of the time.
I am advocating grass roots pressure to change the situation currently existing which makes victim disarmament in the workplace acceptable and widespread.
Maybe I am mistaken but I would think that we would hear of anybody in a workplace being harmed by a ccw permit holder given the general anti-gun bias of the news. Since I have missed these reports supporting your position would you be kind enough to post links?
Every area is different. Every job is different. Every employer is different. Blanket dictating is not going to solve anything anywhere. I've had some jobs that CCW was never an issue.
The most common policy in the workplace today is banning weapons at work, even to the point of not allowing them in vehicles in the parking lot. That is blanket dictating and you are right it doesn't solve anything. I have also had jobs where ccw was never an issue, or it was allowed with proper permission.
My beef is with policies that prohibit legal licensed defense tools with the excuse of making the workplace safe. If you need a cipher lock combo and security clearance to get into the work space that is obviously secure.
Most workplaces are easier to access and having no security at all except calling 911. Guards if present are likely to be unarmed. Calling 911 is not effective and this has been documented.
People with concealed weapon premits are among the safest of citizens and this has been documented.
Armed citizens shoot and kill more BGs' than police officers and are less likely to shoot the wrong person. This has been documented.
While it should seem obvious, comprehensive research has confirmed that criminals tend to avoid murdering, raping and robbing victims they feel might be armed. John Lott "More Guns, Less Crime". So armed people are a deterrent to criminals, this has been documented.
What has not been documented is ccw permit holders being a danger in the workplace. In order for the position of supporting victim disarmament to be valid this would have to be proven.
As pointed out earlier in the thread arguments to the effect that concealed permit holders can't be trusted at work are ad ignoratum arguments, because concealed weapon permit holders are not an unknown quantity.
My suggestion is that if you aren't capable of complying to the terms of your employment and the employer won't negotiate, find another employer who better suits your needs.
Again we seem to be dealing with a reading comprehension issue. I have stated this more than once but let's try it again.
I comply with the no-weapons policy where I work because I agreed to abide by the employee manual when I took the job.
Heck, I worked unarmed in D.C. Public and Assisted housing for forty days when an official at the Special Officer's Management Branch got in a urination contest with me and suspended my armed license for forty days before IA could straighten them out.
In truth nobody searches my backpack/laptop case, my truck, or my person. It would be easy for a person of my experience to conceal a weapon and minimize my legal exposure if discovered.
But I don't because I agreed to it, and in the state where I work it is a felony that would divert police resources from other crimes.
I do not agree with these policies and see nothing wrong with advocating change, including on line debate.
What have you got besides ad ignoratum (ccw permit holders are dangerous in spite of evidence to the contrary) and ad hominem (suggesting that I am an armchair quarterback who lacks self control instead of debating the basis of your position) ?