Does Anyone Still Believe in The 147 gr 9x19mm JHP ?

[BrokenArrow]

I know a large PD that got better results w the 9mm Fed 147 HS than the Texas DPS did with the 45 200/230 JHP.

Know a PD that had 11 stops in a row, all one shot, w the 9mm 115 Silvertip.

Maybe how well you shoot is more important than what?

The 147 9mm is still the most popular LE load. LAPD switched to it from the 115 in 97.

IIRC, the LASO was being sued after a 147 JHP went through a bad guy, through a glass door, and hit a bystander.

In one two year period, 5 people in NYC were hit by 147 JHPs that passed through other people first.

Local big city cops switched from 147 Win to 124 Fed HS, haven't noticed any difference.

After yrs of 115 +P+ 9mm, the Illinois SP went to a 180 40 (Ranger T).

The Rem and Fed 40/155 JHP does about 12-16/.60-.70 bare gel, the BP uses both. If that seems like a wide spread, you haven't seen enough gel tests. There are at least two versions of each bullet too.

Know of a BP shooting where bullet (Rem 155)entered under armpit on one side, exited the other side, destroyed the bottom of the heart on the way through. A stop.

Some loads, like the Gold Dot 9mm +P/357 SIG make everybody happy: high energy, deep penetration. They seem to work well in the "real world" too.

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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 24, 2000).]

 

[long shot]

I prefer the middle weight loads in the popular defensive calibers, as I feel they come the closest to combining the best attributes both ballistic camps present. 124gr. 9mm/155-165gr. 40/185-200gr. 45.

Going back and forth between the two can make one's head spin, as either can cite this dept. or fed. agency switching from one bullet or one caliber to another.Each shooting involes it's own circumstances, and there have been failures to stop w/ all calibers and loads.

After all the research is taken in, shoot what cal. and load your most comfortable & proficient with!
Stay safe...long shot

 

[355sigfan]

How often do INS officers confront drugged attackers?

How often do INS officers confront drunk attackers?

How often do INS officers confront bad guys who are determined to do as much harm as possible before being stopped?

How often do INS officers confront psychotic attackers?

How relevant are INS shooting scenarios to police shootings in general and how relevant are INS shooting scenarios to concealed carry or home defense shootings in general?


Bull crap Shawn the INS study has not been discredited like the FBI study has. The INS is more likly to be involved in a serious shooting than the FBI. Take you IWBA crap and flush it.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Pat:

You take these discussions way too personal.

I like to present questions that provoke thought and discussion. In this case, what are the demographics of INS shootings? Do INS agents typically encounter armed banditos and smugglers who might be predisposed to giving up when shot or shot at? Are these demographics different from police and self-defense situations?

I might be wrong, but I doubt that Border Patrol agents frequently confront people who are emotionally disturbed, crazy, high on crystal meth, etc. These are the kinds of people who don't stop when shot, regardless of what caliber or cartridge is used.

How is the INS' experience on the border applicable to the typical threats encountered by a police officer, sheriff's deputy or armed private citizen in urban/suburban areas?

I believe these are relevant questions that are worthy of thought and discussion. Don't you?


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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com