Does anyone keep a NFA weapon for HD?

I'd imagine suppressors and the SBS/R's would be far more appropriate and justifiable in a HD situation. I also think any blanket statement is not applicable. The variables of your local prosecutor, your unique scenario of use make any broad brush strokes even less useful than such things generally are.
 
In a similar manner to the way we determined that eating roadkill is bad without actually trying it ourselves or finding a case where someone else tried it, a person who is an expert on legal proceedings and court cases work would likely be able to determine the wisdom of a particular course of action based on his experience even though he might not know of a case that exactly matches the case we're interested in.

In fact, that's exactly what has been done for us by a man who specializes in analyzing the legal implications and outcomes of various types of shootings. Just as we were able to determine (by using some basic logical skills and our knowledge) that eating roadkill is probably bad for us without actually finding a case where someone got sick from eating roadkill, he has been able to make the assessment (using his experience and knowledge in conjunction with some basic logical skills) that using NFA weapons in self-defense could have some negative repercussions.
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And I have had this exact conversation with this man, if it is who I suspect.
His response was 'My Momma didn't raise me to be a test case." He believes that since there is no case law regarding this that it is fair game to a jury, and who knows what will happen. Like him, I don't want to be the test case.

The point of this thread is moot
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Actually those of us that actually own NFA items feel that this is a subject that deserves discussion. It is a topic that has been thought about by quite a few of us.

It was discussed here a while back. I wish I had been better prepared and written a better response back then.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288941
 
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Let's look at this logically. Is anyone here realy contemplating using a machinegun for home defense? What's the maximum number of home invaders that anyone has even heard of? Three? Maybe an outside chance of Four?

I'd say that if there were 4 home invaders, you could be logistically justified in using a full-auto weapon. But, anything less than that and you are simply better armed with a handgun, shotgun or some other kind of semi-auto gun.

Forget about the legal consequences for a moment - what I'm saying is that if I'm faced with 3 or less attackers, I'd be far more comfortable with a semi-auto. I'd be too concerned that I'd blow through my one magazine and not be able to locate another loaded mag quick enough! When I fire my AC556 - it "feels like" I've only got enough ammo for 2-3 bad guys. I'm sure that I'd have about 15-20 of those rounds damage walls, ceilings, floors, furniture, etc. It would be like using lighter fluid and a match to get rid of an ant infestation inside of your house!

Now, if we are talking suppressors - I guess you could always use it, take it off when your're done and toss it back in the safe or whatever. That wouldn't be too hard. Enough said on that.

As far as SBR's - if it wasn't for the difficulty of storing it when not in use, I'd say that would be a pretty good choice for inside your house. Large capacity, more accurate and more powerful than a handgun and easy to use.
 
I have found this thread very interesting. I only know of one person who has any NFA weapons. He doesn't keep one for HD. His reason was that he isn't willing to risk a 10K gun for some skimeball to get the drop on him. As much as we train, the BG's could split up or something. I figured that sbr's and sbs's wouldn't be put under as much scrunity from prosecutors or investigators. I have actually thought of getting a shotgun and converting it to a SBS for a HD weapon.
I would imagine that no matter what you use defending your person or home. That item will be taken by investigators until it is determined that your actions were justified. It wouldn't matter if it was a full - auto or the wife's cast iron skillet.
 
Let's look at this logically. Is anyone here realy contemplating using a machinegun for home defense?
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Machineguns are not the only NFA item suitable for defense. I have a 12" 20 gauge AOW I use at times and another person mentioned a short barreled shotgun. Suppressors also have use.
 
Machineguns are not the only NFA item suitable for defense.
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I realize that - must not have read the rest of my post......


Now, if we are talking suppressors - I guess you could always use it, take it off when your're done and toss it back in the safe or whatever. That wouldn't be too hard. Enough said on that.

As far as SBR's - if it wasn't for the difficulty of storing it when not in use, I'd say that would be a pretty good choice for inside your house. Large capacity, more accurate and more powerful than a handgun and easy to use.

Sorry I didn't mention sawed-off shotguns, but IMHO, it's basically the same as an SBR.
 
Now, if we are talking suppressors - I guess you could always use it, take it off when your're done and toss it back in the safe or whatever.
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Again, in a very clear cut situation this would probably be a non-issue.

If it's not clear cut, and there is a detailed investigation the fact that you used a suppressor but removed so that its use would not be detected could affect the results of the investigation in a manner that would cause your story to be suspect.

For example, GSR on the person shot is often used to determine if they were shot from very close range. A suppressor will definitely affect GSR significantly and could make it appear that someone was shot from farther away than actually occurred. If that result contradicts your story then you are left with some unpleasant options.

You're better off not trying to alter the scene before the police arrive.
 
The point of this thread is moot.

NFA weapons are only accessible to people who have the money to spend and can get through the complex paperwork process. Usually they are dealers and have FFLs. There are a very limited number of people in the US who have these weapons. Those who have these weapons do not leave them lieing around the house or out at night, but generally stored and locked down. Most of these people that if the police took their NFA weapons then they probably would not get it back...at all. They also believe they are so expensive that leaving them out makes them more stealable.

So no one is going to use their NFA weapon for HD most likely unless it just so happens to be out of their sacred locked up stash.
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Not really moot. I would imagine that most full-auto weapons are very expensive. However, a SBS or SBR is not. $200.00 patience and diligence is all that is required for the stamp. You can obtain a 590 Mossberg for less than $500.00. With some basic tools and metal working knowledge you can own a SBS.

People who can afford 20 grand for a Thompson, can also afford a really good attorney.

I would also imagine anyone who is into collecting firearms to the point where a 20K Thompson is part of that collection. That person is going to have a designated HD gun as well as a plan for using it. I would think this person would also have a home security system of some sort to protect a valuable gun collection.

You never know though. On one hand I think it would be crazy to have a weapon of that value for HD. You take every worldly possession I own and pile it in the yard. I couldn't buy a Thompson with it, no where near it. I also don't have a possession I would kill for. I have a HD for the same reason most of us here do. To protect my family. So on that note, if I had one, and if I had to, I would use it to protect what is most important to me.
 
Hottak47 - that was a very interesting read! But, I don't think I'll start carrying my AC556 around for protection. A cheap semi-auto AK might not be a bad idea though. I see lots of them around now for under $400.

Better yet, I have an old Remington Woodsman 30-06 with a 20 round magazine - I think that might just be preceived as "politically correct" - full auto not necessary with 30-06.:D
 
I own 3 full auto guns and would use one of them as a last resort. If I had no other option I would use my Uzi because it is my least expensive gun and it is easy to maneuver in a confined area, but my go to gun is the Remington 870. I have a 3 inch 1911 C&L that is always within arms reach but the 870 sits near my bed and since it isn't convenient to carry it around in the house so the 1911 is the gun I would use until I can get to the 870. If I can't get to the 870 I keep loaded next to my bed (full tube empty chamber) I am not worried about the 1911 being able to handle most situations. It never entered my mind to worry about being prosecuted because I chose a F/A to defend myself I just believe the 870 is a better choice tactically. I mentioned in another thread that I did not want to risk anything happening to my gun while it was being stored as evidence awaiting trial. But some people disagreed. I worked as a cop and personally saw the poor conditions that guns were stored, and when I had to surrender my guns after I was injured and couldn't do my yearly qualification I loaded them up with oil and preservatives and put them in a plastic baggie because the building once had a leak in the roof and many items were ruined from the water leak.

Regardless of your choice of weapons whether it is a knife, cast iron frying pan or gun it will be held as evidence till the trial an there is always a risk that the evidence storage in your area may not treat your property as well as you would like it. I also pointed out in another thread that some police departments mutilate guns by etching the case number on the gun using an electric etching tool.

As far as the comment about people that have full auto having a lot of money and can afford a lawyer, I bet most owners are like myself and are just getting by with a small amount of savings with most of their money invested in guns and would have to sell off guns if there was a need of money in an emergency.
 
I think excessive force is a good term to remember. Like others have said using a full auto on full auto probably should be used with multiple armed attackers unless no other weapon is available. But when you now for sure your life and that of your family is in mortal danger ALL BETS ARE OFF!!!!!! Like it's said better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 
HottAK47 - that was an excellent article and I completely agree that using anything full-auto probably isn't a great idea for a home defense gun.

Heck, I was on a jury about 3 years ago where they tried to convict a guy in a HD situation because he had shot the intruder 4 times with a .25 caliber pistol. The last shot went in sideways and the prosecutor pulled the same crap about it being in the back...

Having said that, I would use a suppressor on an HD gun - purely because I like my ability to hear. It's the same reason I wear muffs at the range.
 
Sure do. A G19 with Tirant9 suppressor, 15rds of 147grn RangerSXT's, and a surefire X200.

I could care less what anyone thinks, my familys protection is more important than anything. And Ill use the BEST tools at my disposal. In FL, you are very well protected in the event of a home invasion. You are able to defend yourself under law whether they are armed or not, if they are in my home, thats enough reason for me to assume they mean to do myself or my wife harm.
 
I am all for the suppressor on my go to rifle and handgun.

No sense in not using them if I have them.

I would like to be able to see and hear as best as possible in the even I actually had to use a weapon for defense.
 
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