Does anyone have a "Sniper" smell test???

W

Warm Bore

New member
Hello all,

I have a friend who has a friend who has a friend etc. that is claiming to be an ex-Marine sniper in Vietnam. However, I find his claims to be slightly questionable. I was wondering if there is ONE question to which only ONE answer would be correct, that could be asked of him to verify that he was indeed a Marine sniper? Something to which only an instantaneous answer MUST be given. A question in which hesitation or "I forget" or "let me get back to you" would be unacceptable.

Some of my own smell test includes the following:

1.) He "brags" about his .308 sniper skills regularly. Do snipers really grandstand their abilities?

2.) He claims to practice at 1.25+ miles regularly and named Quantico as one of the places he practices.

3.) He claims that the RO at Quantico has asked him not to return because he was making FBI agents look bad.

4.) He claims to have (or have had) TS clearance, though he may be an actual government contractee.

5.) And the big-one... he claims that the Tom Beringer character in the movie "Sniper" was based on himself. He even retold the "shot through the scope" event.

However, I have no way of verifying these five claims. I just can't help but roll my eyes :rolleyes: at them though. If it smells like a dead fish it usually is. But I'll also admit to some ignorance on the part of high-power rifle shooting and snipers in general. I'm only now getting interested in purchasing a .308 so my own ballistics knowledge and real world experience would fill only a small thimble. However, some other questions I would like answered would be:

What is the velocity of a standard mil-surp .308 round at 1.25 miles?

What is the bullet drop at that range?

What elevation must the shooter be stationed at above the target to effectively hit the target?

What magnification scope is required to aquire a man-sized target at 1.25 miles and make a kill-shot?

And again, is there an absolute smell test for an alleged self-proclaimed sniper?

Regards,

Warm Bore
 
I'm not familiar with the movie "Sniper", but the only "shot through the scope" event that I know of was made by Carlos Hathcock. Not there couldn't be others, but I figure the odds are pretty slim.
 
Sounds like garbage, to me.

Velocity at 1-1/4 miles (2,200 yards) is somewhere around Very Slow--and even "Breeze Drift" would be Very Great.

I'd say that bullet drop (or mid-range trajectory) would be somewhere between A Whole Bunch and Tres Gigantique.

The relative elevation is rather inconsequential, other than as something to be accounted for during firing. It doesn't matter if the shooter is above or below the target, as your question is phrased.

As far as the scope, heat shimmer will be the biggest problem, regardless of magnification. I'd venture that any of scope of 14X or more would work.

FWIW, Art
 
He's bogus. Most snipers don't brag about their abilities or their kills. The personality type that favors snipers doesn't generally allow for that type of behavior (although there might be exceptions).

The most telling point, though, is the regular practice at 1.25 miles part. That's about, what, 2000 meters? With a .308? Yeah, right. Gunny Hathcock could do it, but only with a .50. No chance with a .308, which is generally effective in a M40A1 to around 800 meters, 1000 on the outside.

Questions:

1. Ask him what unit he was with? If he says he can't tell you, he's bogus, as all personnel had official duty assignments, even if they were in "black ops".

2. Ask him where he went to sniper school? Ask him who is instructor was? Ask him to describe the final stalk? A lot of these idiots claim to have not had to go through sniper school. During WWII and Korea, sure. After that, no way.

3. What was his duty weapon?

4. When did he enlist and when did he go to Vietnam? A lot of these morons say that they were over there when they were way too young to have enlisted and gone through training.

5. Find out what other units he trained with. Many of these scumbags like to claim affiliation/membership with various units, i.e. sniper for the SEALs and Berets at the same time.
 
If is looks like duck and smells like a duck then its probably a a a
quack! ;)

The guys sounds like he's full of it, most snipers dont brag about their exploits. the true max distance for 308 is 1000yds and at that distance it drops like 28ft and travels about 700fps. 50 cals are the only thing rationally capable of a 1.25 mile shot. The shot through the scope thing had only happened on two instances. Once in WW2 with Vasily Zeitsev a famous russian sniper plugged Nazi Mahor Koenig throught the scope. (this was on the history channel with John Milius and John Plaster commenting on it). The other rumored occurence was in the Vietnam war involving the most storied and famous US sniper GunnySgt. Carlos Hathcock.
Both of those guys were pretty kick @$$. The thing Hathcock was most proud about was that no man under his command was ever killed. Long live country boys!
 
I was just playing with the Norma Ballistics dealie again and discovered a Sierra 168grn Match bullet at 600 yards has risen and fallen around 40 inches, retains 932 ft/lbs of energy at 1581fps, and has been in the air for .893 seconds. If this guy said he was making hits with .308 at 1.25 miles, he's full of poo.

Take him to the range and let him show you.
 
Here is the dead fish for me.

From my understand, anyone who even remotely knows about snipers or rifles knows that the movie Sniper is a bunch of crap. For God's sake Tom Berringer was making his own hollow points from soft nosed bullets! And the scopes in that movie? I don't think any sniper would truly want to be associated with that movie.

I shoot my Rem 700 VS in .308 at 1.25 miles all the time. Just the other day I took it out shooting at Quantico and I was shooting at this target that was down range quite a ways. From one spot I was stalking I took a shot and I was 1.25 miles from the PX when I shot. I moved a little further down and I shot 1.25 miles from the base gym. After a while I had moved 1.25 miles from my car and took some shots from there too. I do it all the time.
 
My handy dandy Ballisticard for the .308 Federal Match 168gr gives the drop as 63.2 inches at 500 yards and 441.3 inches (36.7 feet) at 1000 yards. That's 169 1/4 MOA clicks for a 1000 yard shot. A 1.25 mile (2200 yard) shot would therefore have a drop of well over 100 feet.
 
Rojo, there is at least one sniper openly attached to Sniper. Dean "trigerfifty" Michaelis donated some of the equipment to the movie. I can't remember others off of any other's, but I think there were more.
 
I smell something and it ain't sniper. Might be called the excrement of the male bovine.

BTW, anyone who hollow points a military FMJ ball is asking to have a jacket left in the barrel. Only in the movies, I hope.

Also BTW, many contractors have TS clearances, so that is by itself not a point of suspicion.

Jim
 
Without making comments on the accuracy (pun intended) of "Sniper", I do have to correct one thing: Tom Berenger wasn't making hollowpoints. He was removing burrs from the ogives.
 
I didn't know that Quantico had a 2,170 yard range-1.25 miles?? I would think that you could call them and verify that very easily.

Sure sound like a lot of bull to me???

pwiz
 
a real sniper should be able to site chapter & verse on .308 come ups, accurately estimate wind speed, and figure mil dot ranges to the meter
 
The only guy I know that was actually a sniper doesn't talk about it at all, you have to drag it out of him to get a simple comment!

Besides, if he can shoot that accurately over a mile with a .308, he's not a sniper, he's a magician! :)
 
Is the guy you are talking about happen to be part of a Rapid Response team in one of America's largest shopping centers?
It could be him.......

Nala
 
Never knew any Operators, police Tactical or Marine Scout/Snipers to brag before. Most are really low key about their profession/experiences.

Vasily Zaitsev was the one who put the "shot thru the scope" in Stalingrad. It has been "borrowed" in lots of movies including "Sniper" and "Saving Pvt. Ryan".

The movie "Sniper" with Tom Berenger was a badly-made rip-off of a book named "Sniper" written by Barry Sadler. You may recall the name, Barry was the guy who authored the "Green Beret" song, also sang it. Barry also wrote dozens of fiction books, the ones about "Casca" were loosely-adapted into the "Highlander" movies & TV shows. Barry Sadler was a Green Beret most of his life & died inthe '80s in a helo crash in Central America.
 
1) Bragging? Most snipers are taught that they're ordinary guys with a different mission: gather intelligence and to support their troops. Louts are generally screened out during the pyschological process.

2) 1.25 mile regular practice? Gotta be a 50 cal to do that.

3) Asked to leave the range. It wouldn't be because he made some agency looked bad but because of unsafe firearms handling.

To borrow a WW II term, I think your associate is a Canteen Commando. :rolleyes:
 
I've never seen any reference to Zaitsev's shot through the scope--does anyone have a book or video title they could point me to?

Carlos Hathcock did kill a Vietnamese sniper with a shot through the sniper's scope. You can read about it in the book "Marine Sniper, 93 Confirmed Kills" by Charles Henderson. There is also a picture of Hathcock holding the rifle with the damaged scope.

The guy you're asking about is full of it (and himself).

If he knew anything about rifles he wouldn't be talking about making shots over a mile with a .308. You would have to have special scope mounts for the rifle--a typical scope on a .308 will run out of elevation adjustment before 1300 yards. If you could get a rifle adjusted to hit at over a mile, it wouldn't be useful for anything under that distance as the drop would be extreme. You'd be using the rifle almost like a mortar.

I doubt Quantico has a range that's over 1,000 yards. It would surprise me if they had one even that long. It would also surprise me greatly if they allowed anyone but FBI to use the range.

Also, although lots of people have/have had TS clearances, you should always be leery about someone who brags about having one. I understand that part of the security briefing is strong encouragement that you keep your clearance level to yourself.
 
Barry Sadler died of a gun shot wound from his own pistol while he was riding in a taxi cab in Costa Rica. It was covered in a story in Soldier of Fortune magazine.
 
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