I once had a Kimber Pro CDP that cost just a tad under a 1000 bucks but after shooting & handling the gun I thought to myself...Damn...This thing is not worth a grand...It just seemed to cheap & fragile...maybe an all steel custom gun would change my mind...How do you guys feel about all those high priced or maybe over priced pieces of work ??
Do you really think that 1911's costing a grand or more are worth it ??
- Thread starter vyper005
- Start date
Mark IV Series 80
New member
My view of the perfect 1911:
A stock $500.00 Colt with a crisp, 3.5 lb. trigger.
-Mk.IV
A stock $500.00 Colt with a crisp, 3.5 lb. trigger.
-Mk.IV
NOT A DREAM; REALLY GOOD 1911
Caspian frame and slide, BarSto barrel and bushing, Ed Brown safety and guide rod(s), EGW slide stop, Nowlin mag release, Caspian optic-rod front, BoMar rear with Caspian ghost-ring blade, Wolff springs, McCormick trigger and grip safety, Caspian and Nowlin small parts, Ahrends grip panels, one really good gunsmithing job, Mag-Pack mags, for sale at $4,000.
'Cause I don't want to sell it............it is so worth it.
Caspian frame and slide, BarSto barrel and bushing, Ed Brown safety and guide rod(s), EGW slide stop, Nowlin mag release, Caspian optic-rod front, BoMar rear with Caspian ghost-ring blade, Wolff springs, McCormick trigger and grip safety, Caspian and Nowlin small parts, Ahrends grip panels, one really good gunsmithing job, Mag-Pack mags, for sale at $4,000.
'Cause I don't want to sell it............it is so worth it.
NO.
I met alot of people who paid that kind of money for a 1911 and then had to put alot more money into it to get it to be reliable, etc.
Sorry, If I am gonna pay that kind of money for a handgun, it damn well better be reliable and have all the bells and whistles and accuracy, right out of the box!! :barf:
I met alot of people who paid that kind of money for a 1911 and then had to put alot more money into it to get it to be reliable, etc.
Sorry, If I am gonna pay that kind of money for a handgun, it damn well better be reliable and have all the bells and whistles and accuracy, right out of the box!! :barf:
44rugerfan
New member
I would have to problem whatsoever paying $1000 or more for a gun. As long as it was a buy one get one free sale, and they threw in some extras to boot....
Yes . . .
I spent about $1100 for my Springfield Armory-Kote TRP. Absolutely stock and absolutely flawless: accurate, reliable, durable, tight, beautiful, and superbly manufactured.
My other 1911A1s (a stainless "loaded" Springfield, a pre-WWII milspec Colt, and a stainless Kimber Custom/Classic) are all outstanding semiautomatics. All are more accurate than I and all are very durable, reliable, and soundly manufactured. However, the TRP is marginally better in each category, and I appreciate and enjoy the incremental quality.
I certainly would feel perfectly secure, well armed and comfortable without the TRP, but I am glad I spent the ~$1100 to buy one.
I spent about $1100 for my Springfield Armory-Kote TRP. Absolutely stock and absolutely flawless: accurate, reliable, durable, tight, beautiful, and superbly manufactured.
My other 1911A1s (a stainless "loaded" Springfield, a pre-WWII milspec Colt, and a stainless Kimber Custom/Classic) are all outstanding semiautomatics. All are more accurate than I and all are very durable, reliable, and soundly manufactured. However, the TRP is marginally better in each category, and I appreciate and enjoy the incremental quality.
I certainly would feel perfectly secure, well armed and comfortable without the TRP, but I am glad I spent the ~$1100 to buy one.
EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME
What, specifically, is more modern than a correctly equipped 1911?
(Ask the FBI SWAT teams or their HRT teams what is 'more modern'.)
And why is the cost so important? People have been spending big bucks for better-than-basic forever; why should guns be any different?
Take a look at some shotgun prices........
What, specifically, is more modern than a correctly equipped 1911?
(Ask the FBI SWAT teams or their HRT teams what is 'more modern'.)
And why is the cost so important? People have been spending big bucks for better-than-basic forever; why should guns be any different?
Take a look at some shotgun prices........
Walt Sherrill
New member
Is a BMW really THAT MUCH BETTER than a hotted up Camaro?
Kinda depends on what you're trying to do. If its just moving from point A to point B, probably not. But if the pleasure of the drive, the feel of the road, the proper "feedback" from the vehicle are important, and if you're really into precision instruments, then perhaps it is worth it.
The same holds true for a custom 1911.
you can buy a Taurus .45 that will function in the same "gun" role as the Camaro in the example above. Will you enjoy shooting it as much as a Custom 1911? Unlikely. Will it be as durable? Possibly, possibly not. Will you be able to recoup as much of your cost, over time, through better resale and lower, long-term cost, if you ever try to sell it? Maybe, maybe not.
I've got a custom 1911 that started out as a Norinco. It was built up by a gunsmith in Texas named Jack Fuselier. (He's the source of some great buys on guns, by the way -- I've gotten several great guns from him.) See: http://www.detnet.com/fuselier/
Soon after that, the front sight (staked) went flying. Because the slide was nickel-plated and the original had been soldered in place, I decided to have a new one dove-tailed into the slide.
I had George Stringer (of TFL Gunsmith's Forum) add a new rear night sight, and a new barrel bushing (required with the changed sights). I later added a Wilson add-on mag well, and Pachmyar wrap-around grips. It already had an ambi-safety.
This gun, in which I now have a total of $700 invested, shoots with Wilson custom guns costing 2-3 times as much. A sub-2" group at 25 yards is easily done, from the bench. I bought it originally from Jack for $400, and could have kept it shooting very nicely for that price, with only a replaced (staked) front sight.
Do you need to spend over a $1000 to get a great 1911? Nope, but some of those $1200 - $3000 guns FEEL GREAT, and its obvious why they cost as much as they do.
Check George Stringer's website, by the way -- he custom builds 1911s for very competitive prices.
http://www.stringergunsmithing.com/index2.ivnu
Kinda depends on what you're trying to do. If its just moving from point A to point B, probably not. But if the pleasure of the drive, the feel of the road, the proper "feedback" from the vehicle are important, and if you're really into precision instruments, then perhaps it is worth it.
The same holds true for a custom 1911.
you can buy a Taurus .45 that will function in the same "gun" role as the Camaro in the example above. Will you enjoy shooting it as much as a Custom 1911? Unlikely. Will it be as durable? Possibly, possibly not. Will you be able to recoup as much of your cost, over time, through better resale and lower, long-term cost, if you ever try to sell it? Maybe, maybe not.
I've got a custom 1911 that started out as a Norinco. It was built up by a gunsmith in Texas named Jack Fuselier. (He's the source of some great buys on guns, by the way -- I've gotten several great guns from him.) See: http://www.detnet.com/fuselier/
Soon after that, the front sight (staked) went flying. Because the slide was nickel-plated and the original had been soldered in place, I decided to have a new one dove-tailed into the slide.
I had George Stringer (of TFL Gunsmith's Forum) add a new rear night sight, and a new barrel bushing (required with the changed sights). I later added a Wilson add-on mag well, and Pachmyar wrap-around grips. It already had an ambi-safety.
This gun, in which I now have a total of $700 invested, shoots with Wilson custom guns costing 2-3 times as much. A sub-2" group at 25 yards is easily done, from the bench. I bought it originally from Jack for $400, and could have kept it shooting very nicely for that price, with only a replaced (staked) front sight.
Do you need to spend over a $1000 to get a great 1911? Nope, but some of those $1200 - $3000 guns FEEL GREAT, and its obvious why they cost as much as they do.
Check George Stringer's website, by the way -- he custom builds 1911s for very competitive prices.
http://www.stringergunsmithing.com/index2.ivnu
David Scott
New member
Considered strictly as a tool for a job (personal defense), I can't see paying $1,000 to $4,000 for a custom 1911 when a $700 Kimber will suffice.
An IPSC competitor, collector or 1911 enthusiast has other motives, and it's their money, so they should go for it.
An IPSC competitor, collector or 1911 enthusiast has other motives, and it's their money, so they should go for it.
lonegunman
New member
As others have pointed out, it depends on why you want a $1000+ 1911.
If you think its going to be a lot better than a standard 1911, you are wrong. It will have a little bit better trigger, and be a little more accurate, maybe look a little prettier. But most of these advantages are not going to translate into any difference in a real world self defense situation. They will make the gun more fun to play with at the range, plus you get a certain pride in owning one, just like if you drove a BMW or Cadillac.
The law of diminishing returns defintely applies to custom 1911s.
Is a $40,000 Mercedes really twice the car a $20,000 Toyota is? Depends on who you ask.
If you think its going to be a lot better than a standard 1911, you are wrong. It will have a little bit better trigger, and be a little more accurate, maybe look a little prettier. But most of these advantages are not going to translate into any difference in a real world self defense situation. They will make the gun more fun to play with at the range, plus you get a certain pride in owning one, just like if you drove a BMW or Cadillac.
The law of diminishing returns defintely applies to custom 1911s.
Is a $40,000 Mercedes really twice the car a $20,000 Toyota is? Depends on who you ask.
Here goes...
A Glock in .45 caliber is much less expensive, is more reliable, is combat accurate and about as indestructable as a gun can get!
It also will not break your heart to get it dinged up a bit!
I find it hard to believe that anyone with a $1000+ handgun is going to want to see a scratch or ding on it unless they are the type of person for whom money grows on trees.
Barbeque away!
canis
A Glock in .45 caliber is much less expensive, is more reliable, is combat accurate and about as indestructable as a gun can get!
It also will not break your heart to get it dinged up a bit!
I find it hard to believe that anyone with a $1000+ handgun is going to want to see a scratch or ding on it unless they are the type of person for whom money grows on trees.
Barbeque away!
canis
lonegunman
New member
CANIS,
I don't doubt for a minute a Glock is any of the things you said. They are wonderful guns.
But he was talking about high end custom 1911s, and these two guns are bought for different reasons. Anyone seriously considering buying a custom 1911 probably isnt going to be turned to the Glock Side.
If you have your heart set on a Jaguar, a Toyota aint gonna be what you wont, despite the fact that its a lot more reliable car.
I don't doubt for a minute a Glock is any of the things you said. They are wonderful guns.
But he was talking about high end custom 1911s, and these two guns are bought for different reasons. Anyone seriously considering buying a custom 1911 probably isnt going to be turned to the Glock Side.
If you have your heart set on a Jaguar, a Toyota aint gonna be what you wont, despite the fact that its a lot more reliable car.
The way I see it, you always get what you pay for. The toyota will run as long as a mercedes, but the merceded has it beat in performance every time. A 1911 will work well right out of the box, without any of the modifications, but if you want a truly high-performance gun, then you have to get it gunsmithed. Just my thoughts on the subject.
exilefromhell
New member
I too feel that $1k for a gun is a bit excessive. And I can directly relate to the driving machine analogy! While a $40k car isn't twice the car a $20k car is, and not necessarily more reliable or for that matter worth twice as much...you simply can not compare them in that aspect. If driving were just driving, then we wouldn't have cars of the like of BMW, MB, etc. It depends on what you want to do with it.
I don't own a 1911 for various reasons such as: safety's, price, usefulness over other calibers... But if I had to pick one aspect right now it would be because of price. What you get versus what you pay for.
I don't own a 1911 for various reasons such as: safety's, price, usefulness over other calibers... But if I had to pick one aspect right now it would be because of price. What you get versus what you pay for.
Wild Romanian
Moderator
I always get a good laugh when the tupperwear people or hightech sheet metal people start mouthing off how good their weapons are.
Anyone can buy a weapon for close range blasting but when it comes to a precision made target weapon that is capable of outstanding accuracy because it is has a good trigger, is balanced correctly, and is able to be gunsmithed to fit the individual needs of the user to enable him to more easily win in competition then the nod goes to the 1911.
It is the dominate pistol used in bullseye competition because people who compete in these matches learn quickly what gun wins and which ones are basically a joke.
Buy what you like if you are a weekend blaster but do not insult the intelligence of profession competitors. They know what wins in matches and what does not.
To answer the question. Is it worth it to buy an expensively made 1911. You bet it is. But there are always way's to get what you want without spending the big bucks that the rich guy doesn't mind forking over.
Some damn good 1911's are turned out by local gunsmiths working on quality used guns like Colt's and they do it for far less than the top end custom guns. Most of them shoot every bit as good. They may or may not have the big resale value of a factory custom gun with a blue book value but they will cost you at least half the money.
Many times you may not want all of the bells and whistles on a the factory produced custom gun anyway. So the best bet is to have it customized to your needs. If you do not get carried away it will usually cost you less.
Buy what you like. The custom factory guns are great buy but if you are on a budget you can still come up with a 1911 that will shoot great and fit your individual needs and tastes with the plethora of accessories available for this pistol and the gunsmiths and tools available to accomplish this customization. You will end up with a weapon unique to your needs not just another mass produced duplicated piece of plastic or sheet metal.
And to boot you will have a finely made weapon made of forgings the traditional way, the exact way John Browning made his beautifully made weapons many years ago. In other words you will have the pride of ownership of a finely crafted, custom made weapon. W.R.
Anyone can buy a weapon for close range blasting but when it comes to a precision made target weapon that is capable of outstanding accuracy because it is has a good trigger, is balanced correctly, and is able to be gunsmithed to fit the individual needs of the user to enable him to more easily win in competition then the nod goes to the 1911.
It is the dominate pistol used in bullseye competition because people who compete in these matches learn quickly what gun wins and which ones are basically a joke.
Buy what you like if you are a weekend blaster but do not insult the intelligence of profession competitors. They know what wins in matches and what does not.
To answer the question. Is it worth it to buy an expensively made 1911. You bet it is. But there are always way's to get what you want without spending the big bucks that the rich guy doesn't mind forking over.
Some damn good 1911's are turned out by local gunsmiths working on quality used guns like Colt's and they do it for far less than the top end custom guns. Most of them shoot every bit as good. They may or may not have the big resale value of a factory custom gun with a blue book value but they will cost you at least half the money.
Many times you may not want all of the bells and whistles on a the factory produced custom gun anyway. So the best bet is to have it customized to your needs. If you do not get carried away it will usually cost you less.
Buy what you like. The custom factory guns are great buy but if you are on a budget you can still come up with a 1911 that will shoot great and fit your individual needs and tastes with the plethora of accessories available for this pistol and the gunsmiths and tools available to accomplish this customization. You will end up with a weapon unique to your needs not just another mass produced duplicated piece of plastic or sheet metal.
And to boot you will have a finely made weapon made of forgings the traditional way, the exact way John Browning made his beautifully made weapons many years ago. In other words you will have the pride of ownership of a finely crafted, custom made weapon. W.R.
This is a "been there, done that" moment for me.
Starting back in 1977 when I was first assigned to the detective bureau, I got a Commander (alloy frame). It was lightly customised (sights, long grip safety, beveled mag well, trigger job). The frame cracked at about 2700 rounds.
Replaced the above with another Commander. This one had better sights (S&W) checkering, beveled mag well, trigger work and electroless nickle finish. Cracked the frame.
Another Commander (1967 vintage). Novac sights, Ed Brown grip safety, Wilson trigger, frame checkered 30 lpi, beveled mag well, Nowlin barrel, fitted bushing, hard chrome finish. Cracked the frame.
The first of these didn't have $1000 invested but that was in 1977 dollars. The other two had about that much or a little more invested. I experienced the pride of ownership, ease of shooting and personal set up that comes with "custom" guns.
I now carry Glock 45 ACPs. They have no soul, no personality. They are just tools. However, they are tools that work, don't break and parts are drop in items, not hand fitted (expensive).
If you just want a gun that works then no, a $1000 1911 isn't worth it.
If you want a gun that is part weapon and part "objet d'art" then yes, a $1000 or $2000 or $3000 1911 is worth it.
The answer is different for each of us and it can change over time.
Starting back in 1977 when I was first assigned to the detective bureau, I got a Commander (alloy frame). It was lightly customised (sights, long grip safety, beveled mag well, trigger job). The frame cracked at about 2700 rounds.
Replaced the above with another Commander. This one had better sights (S&W) checkering, beveled mag well, trigger work and electroless nickle finish. Cracked the frame.
Another Commander (1967 vintage). Novac sights, Ed Brown grip safety, Wilson trigger, frame checkered 30 lpi, beveled mag well, Nowlin barrel, fitted bushing, hard chrome finish. Cracked the frame.
The first of these didn't have $1000 invested but that was in 1977 dollars. The other two had about that much or a little more invested. I experienced the pride of ownership, ease of shooting and personal set up that comes with "custom" guns.
I now carry Glock 45 ACPs. They have no soul, no personality. They are just tools. However, they are tools that work, don't break and parts are drop in items, not hand fitted (expensive).
If you just want a gun that works then no, a $1000 1911 isn't worth it.
If you want a gun that is part weapon and part "objet d'art" then yes, a $1000 or $2000 or $3000 1911 is worth it.
The answer is different for each of us and it can change over time.