Do you really think a 9mm pistol is enough to stop the bg ??
- Thread starter vyper005
- Start date
Quantum Singularity
New member
9 is plenty
The 9mm will get the job done if you do your part.
Having said that......
What cartridge/gun would I grab for given the choice?
Glock 21 or Ruger P97 in .45 ACP... since it makes a bigger hole and IMO is not much harder to control than a 9mm.
The 9mm will get the job done if you do your part.
Having said that......
What cartridge/gun would I grab for given the choice?
Glock 21 or Ruger P97 in .45 ACP... since it makes a bigger hole and IMO is not much harder to control than a 9mm.
Of course the 9mm can stop a BG, or fail as w/ any other caliber.
Border Patrol reported zero failures to stop w/ G-17's & 115gr+p+ ammo, yet went .40.
Illinois State Police had an excellent track record w/ the 115+p+ Fed "9BPLE" load, again they went .40.
In seven gunfights, the Indiana State Police did not experience a failure to stop w/ Beretta 9's & 147gr ammo, yet went .40.
Early reports from NYPD using G-19's now w/ 124gr+p Gold Dot's look promising, just ask the off duty officer who put down two BG's weilding a gun at him & his family over the Christmas holiday.
I guess the 9 just doesn't give some people that warm fuzzy feeling, even when it proves itself effective.
Texas DPS dumped the .45 in favor of the 357 SIG, citing numerous failures to quickly incapacitate BG's, & failure to be able to penetrate car bodies & glass effectively. So I guess even the venerable .45 doesn't do it for everyone.
If one handles the 9 best, IMO that's what they should use. If one handles the larger calibers equally as well, then go for it.
As bedlamite said, bullet design has helped the 9mm a great deal, as it has w/ the other calibers as well. No matter what I'm carrying, I want a premium load in gun.
Best! long shot
Border Patrol reported zero failures to stop w/ G-17's & 115gr+p+ ammo, yet went .40.
Illinois State Police had an excellent track record w/ the 115+p+ Fed "9BPLE" load, again they went .40.
In seven gunfights, the Indiana State Police did not experience a failure to stop w/ Beretta 9's & 147gr ammo, yet went .40.
Early reports from NYPD using G-19's now w/ 124gr+p Gold Dot's look promising, just ask the off duty officer who put down two BG's weilding a gun at him & his family over the Christmas holiday.
I guess the 9 just doesn't give some people that warm fuzzy feeling, even when it proves itself effective.
Texas DPS dumped the .45 in favor of the 357 SIG, citing numerous failures to quickly incapacitate BG's, & failure to be able to penetrate car bodies & glass effectively. So I guess even the venerable .45 doesn't do it for everyone.
If one handles the 9 best, IMO that's what they should use. If one handles the larger calibers equally as well, then go for it.
As bedlamite said, bullet design has helped the 9mm a great deal, as it has w/ the other calibers as well. No matter what I'm carrying, I want a premium load in gun.
Best! long shot
As a member of my County Sheriffs Dept., I carry a Smith 5906. I shoot it constantly and consistently to the point it has become an extension of my left hand. I have no doubt if "crunch time" comes, that this pistol/ammo combination will perform for me better than any other combination on the planet. Confidence allows me to say this.
my experieance, a long boring post.
If a person is in the law enforcement business then maybe a bigger caliber would be more appropriate. When I was much younger I only had mouse guns, .22 and .25. One incident I lived in a rural area and at 2 am someone was driving around my backyard, parking, waiting and driving parking and waiting again. I didn't know what was going on but I was young, single, poor, didn't have a phone so 911 was out (acutally I don't thing they had 911 then). Anyhoo after about an hour and a half of this I really started getting scared. I cracked open my door and fired a shot to the ground, not towards the car, not yet. Didn't matter, they were burning rubber.
Another time, same place, hubbys "friend" payed me a visit while he was away. He wasn't going to leave until . . . Diplomacy wasn't working and I remembered my little pistol. I made an excuse to go to my magazine rack where I kept it, I didn't say "don't hurt me or I'll get my gun". I just went and got it. Once I had it I felt all better. I wasn't scared or shaking cause I knew the cards were stacked in my favor now. He wasn't too concerned at first and started to approach me. I fired a shot into a beanbag chair. He decided to leave. Never had a problem with him again.
Another time I lived in a bad part of town and looked out my window to find someone lurking. I opened my window and waved my little .22 revolver. They ran away.
I got tired of being poor and went to college and got my degree in medical technology. I carried my little revolver with me in my car, it was the only legal way to do that back then. Eventually my car was broken into and my precious revolver stolen. The car was in a garage with security guards. I have reason to believe they are the ones that stole my gun but I won't get into that now. I didn't leave a gun in my car after that. I kept my little one in my purse. Having that gun stolen made my physically ill. I kept seeing the image of some elderly couple being the victim of a crime with my gun. The thought haunted me for a long time, still does when I think about it. Parking garages are very bad places for safty. I now have started putting my glock in my glove compartment, only because where I park now is much more in the open and there are cameras. I keep the little one in my purse. Nobody knows I have either one. I have to drive through a bad neighborhood late at night and refuse to be an unarmed victim.
The point of this long diatriabe is that when I had that gun I was confident and did not respond with "shaking". Yes that was ignorance on my part but I believe my demeanor was a factor in the bg's decision to leave me alone. If I ever have to REALLY use my weapon it will be because I have exasted all other options and since I am familier with it and apparently can keep it together enough in these situations to place my bullet, I'm really not too worried about caliber.
A home invasion is another story. This is when I'm glad I have many firearm options. I have my 9mm and shotguns and rifles. I really don't think a person can survive 9 shots at close range to the head. If they do they will at least be wounded enough I can get away.
That being said, when I get the money I will make a purchase of a larger caliber, just because. Right now I am leaning towards a 10mm or .357. Whatever I decide will be a full size gun, I already have enough compacts. A .45 has not been ruled out. I shoot friends guns some and sooner or later one will stand out as the one I will purchase next.
But like I said, if I was in the law enforcement industry the rules change. You would be more likely to have to use your weapon on someone not as easily discouraged as what I might run into. I've never actually shot anyone and hope never to have to. If I do it will be there choice, not mine. I won't be a willing victim.
If a person is in the law enforcement business then maybe a bigger caliber would be more appropriate. When I was much younger I only had mouse guns, .22 and .25. One incident I lived in a rural area and at 2 am someone was driving around my backyard, parking, waiting and driving parking and waiting again. I didn't know what was going on but I was young, single, poor, didn't have a phone so 911 was out (acutally I don't thing they had 911 then). Anyhoo after about an hour and a half of this I really started getting scared. I cracked open my door and fired a shot to the ground, not towards the car, not yet. Didn't matter, they were burning rubber.
Another time, same place, hubbys "friend" payed me a visit while he was away. He wasn't going to leave until . . . Diplomacy wasn't working and I remembered my little pistol. I made an excuse to go to my magazine rack where I kept it, I didn't say "don't hurt me or I'll get my gun". I just went and got it. Once I had it I felt all better. I wasn't scared or shaking cause I knew the cards were stacked in my favor now. He wasn't too concerned at first and started to approach me. I fired a shot into a beanbag chair. He decided to leave. Never had a problem with him again.
Another time I lived in a bad part of town and looked out my window to find someone lurking. I opened my window and waved my little .22 revolver. They ran away.
I got tired of being poor and went to college and got my degree in medical technology. I carried my little revolver with me in my car, it was the only legal way to do that back then. Eventually my car was broken into and my precious revolver stolen. The car was in a garage with security guards. I have reason to believe they are the ones that stole my gun but I won't get into that now. I didn't leave a gun in my car after that. I kept my little one in my purse. Having that gun stolen made my physically ill. I kept seeing the image of some elderly couple being the victim of a crime with my gun. The thought haunted me for a long time, still does when I think about it. Parking garages are very bad places for safty. I now have started putting my glock in my glove compartment, only because where I park now is much more in the open and there are cameras. I keep the little one in my purse. Nobody knows I have either one. I have to drive through a bad neighborhood late at night and refuse to be an unarmed victim.
The point of this long diatriabe is that when I had that gun I was confident and did not respond with "shaking". Yes that was ignorance on my part but I believe my demeanor was a factor in the bg's decision to leave me alone. If I ever have to REALLY use my weapon it will be because I have exasted all other options and since I am familier with it and apparently can keep it together enough in these situations to place my bullet, I'm really not too worried about caliber.
A home invasion is another story. This is when I'm glad I have many firearm options. I have my 9mm and shotguns and rifles. I really don't think a person can survive 9 shots at close range to the head. If they do they will at least be wounded enough I can get away.
That being said, when I get the money I will make a purchase of a larger caliber, just because. Right now I am leaning towards a 10mm or .357. Whatever I decide will be a full size gun, I already have enough compacts. A .45 has not been ruled out. I shoot friends guns some and sooner or later one will stand out as the one I will purchase next.
But like I said, if I was in the law enforcement industry the rules change. You would be more likely to have to use your weapon on someone not as easily discouraged as what I might run into. I've never actually shot anyone and hope never to have to. If I do it will be there choice, not mine. I won't be a willing victim.
I forgot to emphasis that although I was scared, I wasn't so scared I couldnt' control my gun. I'm wierd that way, when these things happen the seem so unreal it's like a dream. It's like it's not really happening. A different time I was at the post office about 6 pm. It gets dark in the east at that time in the winter. While I was in there I heard a noise in the parking lot. I looked out but didnt' see anything. It was dec. and I stood in there and read my mail. When I got to my van someone jumped out from the back and said something I couldn't understand. The situation was so unreal I couldn't believe it was happening to me. He came up front and sat in the drivers seat and said something else I couldn't understand completly. Since I was in complete denial (this gets very wierd) I said "damn dude, you scared me" and just sat there trying to recognize the friend that was obviously playing a trick on me. Well it wasn't a freind and as I slowly backed out of the parking lot (it was a rural Post office on a road with no other buildings around). Reality set in as I got into the road and I grabbed my keys. I had a knife, a very large bowie knife (this happened while my husband was on the same deployment as the other incident)in a lidded bench between the front seats. I looked at him and there was no weapon. Not knowing what to do but knowing that things would only get worse if I cooperated, a shoving match ensued. I think the bad guy, who luckily wasn't very big, was unnerved because I did not appear to react. The passenger side came open and he fell out alone with everything else. He grabbed my purse and ran. I got the knife and gave chase. Since I was in the middle of the road a car came by and helped me. They called the cops and we all searched the woods he ran into. We found my purse, a few bucks was gone but nothing else. I went to the police station to file a report. Somewhere along the line I wet my pants! I wasn't even aware of that! It was a little later reality set in on what really happened. After that I kept the knife tucked by the drivers door in between the paneling (this was the 70's, paneling was everywhere).
So that's my story. I've never posted it before and doubt I will again. I was very young then and didn't use very good judgement. But at least I learned from my mistakes and didn't become a statistic, except for my pants. I don't know what would happen if I ever was in a similar circumstance. I don't know how I would react but I believe that my not panicking, for whatever reason, was a factor in being able to keep my cool in spite of being so afraid I wet my pants. I'm not that niave anymore and am not so sure I could even react so cooly. When these things happen it seems so unreal it's like a dream. It's like your watching it happen to someone else. That might be a good thing, who knows.
As I got older and went to college I was subjected to the old guns are bad rhetoric. I think that made me madder than those crooks that I had to deal with. Listening over and over that if a women had a gun it would only be taken from her and used on her, and guns don't deter crime. I think I felt more victimized by listening to that crap than when I was really a crime victim!!! It was like my experience meant nothing and I should have just submitted to the crime. At least with the bad guys we have an understanding, with these pacifist liberals there is no understanding, I am supposed to just accept being a victim and if I resist then I've committed an immoral act.
Oh well, I guess I just got way off topic.
So that's my story. I've never posted it before and doubt I will again. I was very young then and didn't use very good judgement. But at least I learned from my mistakes and didn't become a statistic, except for my pants. I don't know what would happen if I ever was in a similar circumstance. I don't know how I would react but I believe that my not panicking, for whatever reason, was a factor in being able to keep my cool in spite of being so afraid I wet my pants. I'm not that niave anymore and am not so sure I could even react so cooly. When these things happen it seems so unreal it's like a dream. It's like your watching it happen to someone else. That might be a good thing, who knows.
As I got older and went to college I was subjected to the old guns are bad rhetoric. I think that made me madder than those crooks that I had to deal with. Listening over and over that if a women had a gun it would only be taken from her and used on her, and guns don't deter crime. I think I felt more victimized by listening to that crap than when I was really a crime victim!!! It was like my experience meant nothing and I should have just submitted to the crime. At least with the bad guys we have an understanding, with these pacifist liberals there is no understanding, I am supposed to just accept being a victim and if I resist then I've committed an immoral act.
Oh well, I guess I just got way off topic.
SigmundSauer
New member
Nobody can completely trust a handgun caliber to anchor an adversary every time. But I can't conceal a .308 under my t-shirt. It is interesting to note that the .357 mag, .40 cal., 9mm, and .45 are all the best rated stoppers according to Marshall and Sanow in the best forms of their caliber. One shot stops are actually less reliable with .44 mag, .41 mag. and other big and fast bullets. There is more to stopping power than just simply mass x velocity.
Personnally, when I'm not carrying my .357 SIG with Speer Gold Dot bullets I am carrying my 9mm with the NYPD's Speer Gold Dot 124gr +Ps.
SS
Personnally, when I'm not carrying my .357 SIG with Speer Gold Dot bullets I am carrying my 9mm with the NYPD's Speer Gold Dot 124gr +Ps.
SS
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
I have absolutely nothing chambered in 9mm! (yet anyway) I somehow skipped from 22LR to 357 mag to 44 mag and then started my autos with 40S&W and 45ACP. If, for some reason, I didn't bring one of my own out one day, and had to borrow a 9mm from a friend, would I feel undergunned? Nope. But then again, I feel well armed with 2 rounds of 22LR.
I just talked to a former city police officer who was telling me about some officer who shot a crazed St.Bernard dog several times with a 9mm and the dog didnt even die,He said the SPCA took the dog to the vet and most of the bullets were lodged in the dogs thick skin with only one bullet penetrating into the muscle.....Hmm...really makes you wonder if the 9mm is really enough.....Apparently the local city police had too many "Dog incidents" that they traded in their S&W 9mm's for Sigma 40's.....
Ummm, vyper005,
First, St. Bernard skin is really no thicker than human epidermis, at least as far as a bullet is concerned. Secondly, either your friend had bad data, or he was doing some creative storywriting. I had an acquaintance who was a big-city police officer who would tell you all manner of stories about his ninja-SEAL-death ranger experiences, but that didn't mean I believed him.
Most 9mm penetrates just as good as .40 cal, if not better.
First, St. Bernard skin is really no thicker than human epidermis, at least as far as a bullet is concerned. Secondly, either your friend had bad data, or he was doing some creative storywriting. I had an acquaintance who was a big-city police officer who would tell you all manner of stories about his ninja-SEAL-death ranger experiences, but that didn't mean I believed him.
Most 9mm penetrates just as good as .40 cal, if not better.
I find it hard to believe that a 9mm wouldn't penetrate a dog. I don't know what load they were using but they better bring those reloads back to the maker. I have shot more deer with one shot from a 9mm on duty than I can count. I also shot a moose with the nine two quick shots to the back of the head lights out. The 9mm is know more than any other caliber for it's penetration. Check out threat levels on bullet proof vests and see what caliber hangs in there the longest. I think this officer is trying to justify
why they switched to another caliber and many department want to follow other departments when something new comes out. I think they should learn how to shoot the gun they already possess.It's a good thing nobody is following the FBI how many changes did they have. Seems to me that everyone like new toys including police departments. I have seen what a good nine round can do, I can tell you I wouldn't want to get shot with it.
why they switched to another caliber and many department want to follow other departments when something new comes out. I think they should learn how to shoot the gun they already possess.It's a good thing nobody is following the FBI how many changes did they have. Seems to me that everyone like new toys including police departments. I have seen what a good nine round can do, I can tell you I wouldn't want to get shot with it.
OH BOY, A Caliber debate! :barf:
OK, I own and carry both cal., and believe as stated that both have effectively sent many men to their great reward. I have a choice, 8+1 185gr Cor-Bon +p out of a Series 70 1911, or 14+1 of 115gr +p HP out of my fine FN Hi-power. Either way, I don't feel under-armed. More important to adhere to rule #1, and remember its the size of the fight in the dog. Only other observation I have is 147gr sub-sonic probably isn't the real deal, and with both weapons checked 3 times to be sure of completly empty I compared the business end of each, I believe the 1911 grille is a universally accepted sign of bad news, don't know what its worth, just must be a lonesome feeling staring down that gaping bore.
Greg, you said you'd even take a Lorcin??? I would too,... surf fishing as a sinker!
Oh yeah, can you tell I have a thing for steel SA guns?
OK, I own and carry both cal., and believe as stated that both have effectively sent many men to their great reward. I have a choice, 8+1 185gr Cor-Bon +p out of a Series 70 1911, or 14+1 of 115gr +p HP out of my fine FN Hi-power. Either way, I don't feel under-armed. More important to adhere to rule #1, and remember its the size of the fight in the dog. Only other observation I have is 147gr sub-sonic probably isn't the real deal, and with both weapons checked 3 times to be sure of completly empty I compared the business end of each, I believe the 1911 grille is a universally accepted sign of bad news, don't know what its worth, just must be a lonesome feeling staring down that gaping bore.
Greg, you said you'd even take a Lorcin??? I would too,... surf fishing as a sinker!
Oh yeah, can you tell I have a thing for steel SA guns?
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello all. 9mm's penetrated quite well for me shooting coyotes using JHP ammunition. Best.