do you carry chambered?

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Carry loaded. You can not assume you will have time to chamber a round.

Buy a well made leather holster that was designed specifically for your gun. I would suggest you look for a thumb break holster.

Finally, a dedicated gun belt will hold your gun in the proper position and secure it against your body.
 
It is literally impossible to shoot yourself with a holstered handgun.

People shoot themselves accidentally when they're playing with guns
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True but its also imposable to shoot yourself if you haven't a round in the chamber. The ones i have seen shooting themselves have not being playing with there firearm putting a round in the chamber and removing a round from the chamber or unintentionally pulling the trigger in a stressful situation. Did the police in New York not fit a heaver trigger pull to their Glock pistols to try and prevent the number of negligent discharges they were having. But as i said carry what ever way you want.
 
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One of the reasons I carry a DAO. Pistol more than the SA/DA. Is don't even want to worry about taking the safety off. If carrying SigP238 or 1911 its chambered with hammer cocked. You MAY have time to rack the slide... You MAY have time and Remember to take safety off ,BUT you may not. I like chambered, point, shoot simplicity. What has been a fear of mine from day one is having your firearm taken away & used on you.Almost Happened to a coworker in the 70's after being hit from behind with 2x4 in head.


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thenatureboy said:
I assumed that since the individual was open carrying surely his gun wouldn't be loaded while he was eating in a restaurant.
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I bet you assumed incorrectly.

Do you also assume that all those cops open carrying are doing it with unloaded guns, or that they unload their guns when they're sitting down?
 
"One of the reasons I carry a DAO. Pistol more than the SA/DA. Is don't even want to worry about taking the safety off. If carrying SigP238 or 1911 its chambered with hammer cocked. You MAY have time to rack the slide... You MAY have time and Remember to take safety off ,BUT you may not. I like chambered, point, shoot simplicity. What has been a fear of mine from day one is having your firearm taken away & used on you.Almost Happened to a coworker in the 70's after being hit from behind with 2x4 in head."

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I live in Illinois and am looking forward to a good carry law later this year. So I am learning as much as I can now, and trainng, which if there is an underlying theme from just about everyone is that it's all about training.

What I don't understand are comments about pistols with a manual safety because it may take too long to turn off the safety, or because you may not remember to turn the safety off. This makes no sense to me if training is truly taking place. I have a Ruger SR40 with a manual safety, and a trigger safety, and it is so easy and fast to turn the safety off. It is second nature to do it. And if I can't remember to do that, then I haven't trained enough.

The thought of having one chambered, with a manual safety on, and trained well so I can quickly turn the safety off, seems to be a perfect solution. It solves most of the safety concern, and it solves the potential problem of not having the weapon ready to fire.

Maybe I'm missing something....
 
Why do you need the safety on a carry gun if you don't pull the trigger incorrectly?

That is the core of the argument.

If you carried a revolver as many did for years, there would be no safety.

Is it the weight of the trigger pull?
 
True but its also imposable to shoot yourself if you haven't a round in the chamber. The ones i have seen shooting themselves have not being playing with there firearm putting a round in the chamber and removing a round from the chamber or unintentionally pulling the trigger in a stressful situation. Did the police in New York not fit a heaver trigger pull to their Glock pistols to try and prevent the number of negligent discharges they were having. But as i said carry what ever way you want.
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Manta, for some reason you seem to like taking the contrary position and arguing for it. I don't know why that is.

The fact is- these people in the videos you have seen are violating one or more of the safety rules. Period- no argument. Guns are designed and intended to be loaded. They are not designed or intended for extra manipulation to make them ready, when loss of a split second could mean the end of a life.

When you take a police force the size of NYPD, with many officers who have little to no firearms experience prior to joining the force, and then have them carry a gun full-time day in and day out, there is a chance that problems will occur. With training and experience hopefully comes improvement.
 
What I don't understand are comments about pistols with a manual safety because it may take too long to turn off the safety, or because you may not remember to turn the safety off. This makes no sense to me if training is truly taking place. I have a Ruger SR40 with a manual safety, and a trigger safety, and it is so easy and fast to turn the safety off. It is second nature to do it. And if I can't remember to do that, then I haven't trained enough.
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For me it's one variable that can be taken out of the equation entirely.

I don't want to have to train for it. I'm comfortable with my choice of weapons that don't have a manual safety, so why should I bother worrying about one?
 
manta49 said:
True but its also imposable to shoot yourself if you haven't a round in the chamber. The ones i have seen shooting themselves have not being playing with there firearm putting a round in the chamber and removing a round from the chamber or unintentionally pulling the trigger in a stressful situation. Did the police in New York not fit a heaver trigger pull to their Glock pistols to try and prevent the number of negligent discharges they were having. But as i said carry what ever way you want.
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So, you've seen people shoot themselves while chambering and unchambering a round but you still think the best practice is to chamber and unchamber a round whenever you need the gun?

My biggest problem with this is the idea that "you can't shoot yourself with an unloaded gun", yet that is exactly what happens in a large number of unintentional shootings. "BOOM!" followed by "But I didn't think it was loaded!?"

All guns are ALWAYS loaded. Even when they're "not", they're loaded. If you treat them like they're loaded, it makes NO difference if they "really are" or not. You won't have your finger on the trigger or inside the trigger guard. You won't point it at anything you're not willing to destroy. You'll keep it pointed in a safe direction.

"Unloaded" carry, IMO, encourages just the opposite. "Don't worry, it's not loaded"

Carry guns are not for show and tell. They're not to take out and admire in the restroom. They remain holstered from morning to night unless dire circumstances call for their use. Carrying them loaded is perfectly safe and carrying them unloaded can put the person in unnecessary added danger should a SD situation ever arise.
 
"Carry guns are not for show and tell. They're not to take out and admire in the restroom. They remain holstered from morning to night unless dire circumstances call for their use. Carrying them loaded is perfectly safe and carrying them unloaded can put the person in unnecessary added danger should a SD situation ever arise"


Absolutely.

And those that need to be convinced of this, or who disagree with this, have self-selected themselves into the group that ought to not carry.


Willie

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I really don't have a problem with someone deciding not to carry with a round in the chamber. There are some people who decide not to carry at all. Not my decision.

I've known people who are better shooters than me who decide not to.

I do think some people have an unrealistic expectation that a self defense situation will be like on TV. John Wayne pulling a gun and firing across the street at the bad guys. Sometimes it is. But quite often your free hand will be pinned or be budy defending you from a knife attack or someone beating you with a piece of pipe.
 
Manta, for some reason you seem to like taking the contrary position and arguing for it. I don't know why that is.
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I just have a different opinion at this time i am happy to listen to different views and be open minded and willing to change my view on the subject if i see read or see something that changes my mind.

So, you've seen people shoot themselves while cambering and unchambering a round but you still think the best practice is to chamber and unchamber a round whenever you need the gun?
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If you carry with a round in the chamber then you could be cambering and unchambering every day. If you choose to chamber the firearm when you need or think you might need it that could be at the most maybe a few times in a year.
No doubt carrying with a round in the chamber could save a few seconds if the firearm is needed. So its up to the individual to look at the options and decide what they want to do. I am not telling anyone what way they should carry their firearm like some are, just giving my opinion.
 
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Brian Pfleuger said:
So, you've seen people shoot themselves while chambering and unchambering a round but you still think the best practice is to chamber and unchamber a round whenever you need the gun?

My biggest problem with this is the idea that "you can't shoot yourself with an unloaded gun", yet that is exactly what happens in a large number of unintentional shootings. "BOOM!" followed by "But I didn't think it was loaded!?"
.
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Heard of alot of people being accidentally shot or discharging with the preverbal "unloaded" gun" that's why mine are always kept loaded, and I don't keep it a secret either. It takes the guesswork out of if there loaded. I once asked a dealer at gun show what the Large jar of various cal bullies on his table was. He replied it was from all the "unloaded" guns he had received.


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manta49 said:
If you carry with a round in the chamber then you are cambering and unchambering every day.
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Why? I keep my guns loaded and certainly don't load and unload them every day. What would be the reason for doing so?

Regardless of where you store the ammo, if a round is not chambered, the gun is effectively unloaded and must be loaded before it will fire. When it comes to self defense when speed is of the essence, a brick can be more effective than an unloaded gun, because you won't have to waste any time trying to load the brick.
 
Brian Pfleuger said:
...My biggest problem with this is the idea that "you can't shoot yourself with an unloaded gun", yet that is exactly what happens in a large number of unintentional shootings. "BOOM!" followed by "But I didn't think it was loaded!?"

All guns are ALWAYS loaded....
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Garycw said:
...Heard of alot of people being accidentally shot or discharging with the preverbal "unloaded" gun"...
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Perhaps the fundamental issue is that folks who carry a gun with an empty chamber seem to be saying (to others and I'd suspect to themselves) that by doing so they are making the gun "safe" or being "safer." I submit that is not a particularly helpful attitude.

As mentioned, the first rule of safe gun handling is: All guns are always loaded.


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A while ago I received the following (quoted in part) in an email from another Gunsite alumnus (emphasis added):
Negligent discharges that result in injury are the result of 1. IGNORANCE, and/or 2. COMPLACENCY and/or 3. HABIT that is inappropriate to changed conditions.

Proper training with the universal rules can only address #1 and #3.

...The great deficiency of much NRA civilian training ... is that muzzle and trigger discipline are not rigorously enforced except when on the range when the line is hot and sometimes not even then. Change the conditions to carrying a loaded gun at all times and adverse results are predictable.

EXAMPLE #1: Trap and skeet shooters often rest muzzles on their toes and point them at each other. They have almost no accidents on the range because guns are unloaded until just before they shoot. ...CHANGE CONDITIONS to a duck blind with loaded guns and the results are predictable....

One thing that Jeff Cooper said ... made a big impression on me. It is seldom repeated. To address complacency he said that every morning when he picks up his gun he says to himself "somewhere today someone is going to have an accident with a gun - not me, not today".
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At Gunsite, training is on a hot range. For those who carry a gun in public, everyday life is a "hot range." It's a good idea to get used to that and learn to consistently conduct oneself accordingly.

As I've mentioned before, your being safe with your gun is completely within your control. The circumstances of a violent incident in which you may need to use your gun are not; they will be chosen largely by your assailant.
 
Why? I keep my guns loaded and certainly don't load and unload them every day. What would be the reason for doing so
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My mistake i was thinking more of police and military i am not sure about America. But here a soldier or police officer has to unload in a unloading bay every time he comes of duty or patrol. If its so safe to have a round in the chamber why do they require the firearm to be unloaded when in the police station.

When it comes to self defense when speed is of the essence, a brick can be more effective than an unloaded gun, because you won't have to waste any time trying to load the brick
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If you are going into a situation that someone is going to start shooting at you then you take a brick. I will take a firearm that unloaded that will take a few seconds to chamber a round. PS in that situation i would have a round in the chamber.


My earlier post.
No doubt carrying with a round in the chamber could save a few seconds if the firearm is needed. So its up to the individual to look at the options and decide what they want to do. I am not telling anyone what way they should carry their firearm like some are, just giving my opinion
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Manta, in the U.S. military, the further removed from actual combat you are, the more skiddish those above you in the chain of command get concerning loaded weapons.

For instance, every time we came back inside our FOB, we had to go through the ritual of clearing our weapons and decharging our magazines.

It was procedure and that procedure was enforced. Remind me to tell you the story about the fat USAF Major who yelled at me for wearing gray socks and a para-cord bracelet one day.

Note: Decharging the mags everyday gave you the chance to inspect and clean them though. So that was good.
 
Yeah, but if I knew I was going to a gunfight, I'd take a rifle . . . and friends . . . with rifles.
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I will put it another way its the brick or paperweight analogy i find unhelpful. My point if someone wants to carry a brick in preference to a firearm without a round in the chamber that would take a few seconds to bring into action then go for it . I would prefer to take a firearm.
 
Manta49,

I have no idea why they'd make the police or anyone else unload their guns at the end of a shift but I'd be willing to guess that the answer has a lot more to do with politics than safety.

My carry gun is unloaded when I shoot it. Otherwise, there's a round in the chamber, 24/7/365. The same is true for virtually everyone who carries.
 
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