Wildalaska
Moderator
You just don't want to admit you have an ankle hoslter in YOUR Dr. Denton's .
WildminehavelittleS&WsalloverquitecuteAlaska TM
Do you carry at home - Why do people feel safe at home?
- Thread starter Para Bellum
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You just don't want to admit you have an ankle hoslter in YOUR Dr. Denton's .
WildminehavelittleS&WsalloverquitecuteAlaska TM
I already addressed that. Sure there are people who fall victim to home invasions and crime, the odds that this will happen to the average joe in suburbia are so remotely small its ridiculous.
And like I said, the people who use the stats as a justification likely don't take the same precautions with things that are much more likely to happen. For example, if someone is going to tell me that they wear at home because there is a XYZ% chance of a home invasion, but then drive everywhere without jumper cables then it makes me wonder.
In fact I'm inclined to believe that in most cases (barring those who live in really bad neighborhoods), folks aren't really being honest when they say they carry at home for "protection". They, for some inexplicable reason, aren't comfortable with just saying they do it cause they like it. My guess is because most people would look that them funny if they did because you really don't need to carry at home.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I will agree with some that this discussion has gotten boring but I will add this one last thing. Like I said before, I do not carry at home. Mainly because it is just too inconvenient and a bit uncomfortable. When I get home the gun goes on it's pillow and stays there until I am sure I am not going back out or go to bed and then it goes into the safe.
However, I am not sure calling someone paranoid just because they decide to be prepared for a home invasion is a good idea when I carry a gun every day. It is only ever so slightly more likely I will ever need the gun out of the house than in it but I still carry it.
However, I am not sure calling someone paranoid just because they decide to be prepared for a home invasion is a good idea when I carry a gun every day. It is only ever so slightly more likely I will ever need the gun out of the house than in it but I still carry it.
Yes and no.
Yes because if a person knows that two events are equally likely and feels that they are equally unpleasant and yet prepares much more carefully for one than the other there's a contradiction.
No because rational people find a fender-bender much less unpleasant than having someone hold them and their family prisoners in their own homes, torturing, raping, robbing and murdering on a whim. So even though the car wreck is a lot more probable than a home invasion, it's not contradictory for a person to be somewhat less alarmed at the relatively likely prospect of having a careless driver put his car in the shop than he is about the admittedly far less likely chance of having a home invader rape a family member in front of him.
This same behavior can be seen in reverse in lotteries. There are people who are willing to pay good money to play the lottery in the face of astronomical odds because the potential payoff is so huge and yet who wouldn't stoop to pick up a penny. We all know that the odds of seeing a penny on the ground are pretty good while the odds of winning the lottery are really bad. So if the object of the game is free money, a person should spend his time looking for pennies on the ground rather than buying lottery tickets--right? WHY would someone pick the FAR less likely event (lottery win) to focus on instead of the much more likely one (free pennies)? I don't really think it's necessary to spend a lot of time explaining this "phenomenon".
I like it--in the sense that I like being prepared. I like carrying a flashlight even though the chances of a power outage here aren't significantly higher than elsewhere--and I find it useful for other things besides power outages. I like carrying a pocket knife although there's really not a higher chance that I'll need to trim or cut something in my neighborhood than in anyone elses--but it's handy to have one when you need it and not have to go looking.
A gun is just one more useful tool that I carry when it's practical. One that's come in handy--although (and this is sort of important to note for the purposes of the argument) not for self-defense in my case. In other words, it's not JUST about criminals and home invasions, guns have other useful purposes.
Ok, turn about is fair play, right?
My guess is that the people who oppose home carry, (particularly those who do so ardently) do so out of a misguided sense (probably partially rooted in the subconscious) that carrying at home will be an admission of vulnerability that could somehow actually increase their odds of being invaded. The same kind of reasoning that a small child uses to keep the "monster" under his bed by not looking to see if it's there and by not thinking about it.
Then again, maybe you just don't see it as a practical option and I do...
I think the biggest problem with this topic is that people on both sides of the issue are unwilling to take either side's comments at face value for various reasons. Which naturally leads to a good bit of angst on both sides.TexasSeaRay
New member
Actually, nothing could be further from the truth.
What I'm illustrating is that there are thousands upon thousands of law enforcement types who go to work every day in "plain clothes" undercover type work. In this type of work, you are dead smack in the middle of whatever criminal enterprise you're investigating.
Rarely does the undercover cop need his weapon. Many undercover assignments call for you to be unarmed, believe it or not.
What I'm trying to point out is that these folks are walking into the tiger's lair in the middle of the jungle, and while most (undercover agents/cops) are armed while on the assignment or "at work," I knew very few who, when off-duty and at home, felt the need to carry a weapon at their side everywhere they went in the house.
They knew when and where the liklihood of real and imminent danger existed--and it wasn't in their homes.
Likewise, I see and read the comments of white-collar workers who tuck their CCW in their waistband, climb into the car, drive to the office, park in the secured lot or garage, take the elevator to the office while waving at the security guard--then reverse the scenario on their way home.
No problem with that. You're outside of your home and in an environment that has many factors that are well beyond your ability to control so far as safety and your well-being is concerned.
But then that same white-collar worker gets home and isn't comfortable walking from the kitchen to the kids' room without packing a piece--in an environment in which you have complete and total control as far as safety and well-being are concerned, even without the concealed carry weapon.
The folks I raise an eyebrow at are the ones who justify their packing with statistics like "40% of all assaults occur at home."
Is that a national statistic? Is it based upon NCIC reports or is it based upon sampling? What are the same statistics for MY neighborhood? What if in MY city, only 2% of all assaults occur at home and I live in a city of over 200,000? That comes back to your odds--based upon the "inarguable" statistics--of being assaulted in your home are only one in one-hundred thousand.
I'm not ridiculing anyone except those who suffer from a bad-case of self-induced paranoia because some people simply LIKE being scared all of the time, or "being that one in one-hundred-thousand." We used to call those people "Professional Victims" and carrying a gun never seemed to help them out.
On the other hand, I have zero problems with those who carry ANYWHERE under the personal guise of being prepared.
And no problems whatsoever with the honest folks who carry around the house "because they can and/or they enjoy having a sidearm strapped on."
Jeff
Wildalaska
Moderator
Ha! projection! Those who really fear the monster are the ones who pretend to take steps...the strange rituals (posting on gun boards, putting guns on pillows, pet names for wepons) as well as having their talisman strapped on them! Garlic!
Your turn...
Every time I see that word angst I want to squeeze some zits, wear black and hate my parents.
WildyouguysaregreatAlaska TM
yongxingfreesty
New member
dont carry, have it within arms reach though.
And guess what I think about people who play the lottery
Bolded the important part. Unless you plan on showering with your pistol, sleeping with it, and carrying it while you do other things that are done in the home, then you aren't going to have it on all the time because its not practical.
Ok, I give. What other useful purpose is there in carrying in your home?
Don't get me wrong. I don't oppose people carrying in their homes. Feel free to dance around your living room wearing a safariland and nothing else if it makes you happy. I just don't buy in to the "I do it for protection" reason.
No, I honestly don't think its practical. For someone with kids its definately not. For someone with a significant other its not. A glock just isn't conducive to cuddling. Even with a single guy I don't think its all that practical either.
I am taking the other sides arguments at face value, and thats the problem. Those arguing in favor of home carry are doing so from the perspective that its either that or nothing. Thats not the case. You see the other factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is how many crimes can be stopped by a person having a loaded gun readily available. The already infinitesimally small number that we are already dealing with is once again, cut in half, or even more.
When you look at it from this perspective, the percieved benefit from carrying is so far outweighed by the hinderances that the "stats" aren't a justification at all.
Sigma 40 Blaster
New member
This is a pretty funny thread that has almost ran it's course (I HOPE) but I thought the one where the guy from NY who still lived with his parents and could not get a permit to buy a gun because Mom didn't approve would end FAST. BOY, I was wrong.
I think the funny thing about this thread is that everyone's acting like your chances of being car jacked, robbed, mugged, involved in a hostage situation are WAY higher than being a victim of burglary or home invasion.
I see MANY posts where people proclaim that they'll likely never have to draw their concealed handgun in self-defense but carry just in case. Just like some guys have two guns, several knives, pepper spray, handcuff keys, flashlights, bug out bags, and dried beef jerky on/around their person at all times. Chances are all that is needless prognostication. Does it make us feel better? If so do it, if it makes you feel paranoid don't. Either way I don't think either side is right or wrong, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do".
I wake up, do my morning thing, dress, "strap up", and I have an additional check before I leave the house (keys, phone, wallet, gun). I go about my business, return home with the same stuff, and I remain holstered until I change into shorts/sweats/whatever. Usually my gun will go back in the safe or to a "safe zone" where I can easily access it. I might put on a smaller one if I'm going somewhere later but most nights I come home and I'm in for the night.
After dark (after my son goes to bed) I do retrieve my little friend and he lays on this computer desk since we had a tornado that knocked the fence down on the most vulnerable side of my house. Couple that with a high burglary rate, a murder or two, and a few home invasions on my side of town and yeah, it makes me sit a little more at ease.
At the end of the day the choice to own a gun is an individual choice. Many will say "You're crazy if you don't". The choice to carry a concealed gun is an individual choice, many will say "You're crazy if you don't". To an extent we're all paranoid survivalists, we just suffer delusions of different magnitudes. Telling others what should be "the bare acceptable minimum" of the delusions that we suffer is pretty ridiculous.
Respect each individual's level of paranoia, who knows, it might rub off on you one day. I like PlayboyPenguin's signature, something like laugh all you want but you know where you'll run if/when the zombies invade.
I think the funny thing about this thread is that everyone's acting like your chances of being car jacked, robbed, mugged, involved in a hostage situation are WAY higher than being a victim of burglary or home invasion.
I see MANY posts where people proclaim that they'll likely never have to draw their concealed handgun in self-defense but carry just in case. Just like some guys have two guns, several knives, pepper spray, handcuff keys, flashlights, bug out bags, and dried beef jerky on/around their person at all times. Chances are all that is needless prognostication. Does it make us feel better? If so do it, if it makes you feel paranoid don't. Either way I don't think either side is right or wrong, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do".
I wake up, do my morning thing, dress, "strap up", and I have an additional check before I leave the house (keys, phone, wallet, gun). I go about my business, return home with the same stuff, and I remain holstered until I change into shorts/sweats/whatever. Usually my gun will go back in the safe or to a "safe zone" where I can easily access it. I might put on a smaller one if I'm going somewhere later but most nights I come home and I'm in for the night.
After dark (after my son goes to bed) I do retrieve my little friend and he lays on this computer desk since we had a tornado that knocked the fence down on the most vulnerable side of my house. Couple that with a high burglary rate, a murder or two, and a few home invasions on my side of town and yeah, it makes me sit a little more at ease.
At the end of the day the choice to own a gun is an individual choice. Many will say "You're crazy if you don't". The choice to carry a concealed gun is an individual choice, many will say "You're crazy if you don't". To an extent we're all paranoid survivalists, we just suffer delusions of different magnitudes. Telling others what should be "the bare acceptable minimum" of the delusions that we suffer is pretty ridiculous.
Respect each individual's level of paranoia, who knows, it might rub off on you one day. I like PlayboyPenguin's signature, something like laugh all you want but you know where you'll run if/when the zombies invade.
Exactly the point of my tongue-in-cheek example. I think that it's really hard to have a discussion when one side or the other is basing arguments on suppositions about what the other side is thinking rather than about what is actually being said.
I don't see the relevance nor do I follow your reasoning. Is there some principle that you're aware of which states that if one doesn't carry every single moment of his existence then that entitles others to define what "practical" means for him? Or perhaps there's a natural law that indicates that if a person doesn't carry while showering then it means he's being disengenuous about the reasons why he does carry the rest of the time? Sorry, that statement simply doesn't make sense at all...
The statement you're responding to wasn't intended to be limited in its scope to only home carry, but here's one example of a situation (not involving crime or home invasion) where one might find it useful to have a gun while at home.
Yes, you've explained why you don't and I've explained why the reasoning behind why you say you believe that way is flawed.
People weigh both positive and negative occurrences based on the "value" of the event (HOW bad or good will the outcome be), not just based on the probabilities (is this a LIKELY outcome). This is not a hard concept to understand and examples of this behavior are not at all hard to find.
Huh? Who said that?
Wow, I'm not following this at all. It's been shown that guns are used around 2 million times a year to prevent crime. How does that cut anything "in half or even more", and how is that infinitesimal?
Pax (who has children) posted that she finds it practical and explained why. Dunno what else to say other than you can't keep pretending that this is a discussion if you're going to resort to "non-tactics" such as blatant contradiction without justification or logical support.
Its not that the person is disingenuous for carrying, its that they are disingenuous for their use of statistics to support why they carry.
If packing in your home is practical for you, then by all means, do it. However you can hardly cry foul when those of us who don't kinda look at you funny if for no other reason than the fact that it just has to be damn uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but when I get home and want to have a meal and relax, the last thing I want is some gun poking me in the side while I sit, or hanging from a belt. Hell I shouldn't even be wearing a belt. I guess the fundamental difference here isn't necessarily carrying, but home behavior in general. Assuming guests aren't over, you'd be lucky to catch me with a shirt on, much less a firearm.
And what percentage of those 2 million times were in the home? Of those, what percentage were people who carry in the home? My guess is not many at all.
The reason the figure is infinitesimal is because when you take an already statistically insignificant number and cut it in half or more, you are left, for all intents and purposes, with zero.
A perp has to choose my house, which is unlikely. He then has to break in, which is very unlikely. I have to be home at the time he is breaking in, which is unlikely. He has to be armed, which is very unlikely. And here's the kicker... it has to be just the perfect situation in which having a loaded firearm, readily accessible isn't going to be helpful, but one on your hip is. I submit that this type of situation is so absolutely unlikely that probably even can't be measured.
Why? Because I know my house. I know what are normal sounds and what aren't. I know the layout. I know where my gun is, and how long its going to take me to get there. I know where the "good" spots are and which rooms are what, and what hallways go where. And this doesn't even begin to assume things like dogs, alarms, motion lights, etc.
This is why its nonsensical to use the stats to justify carrying at home. With nothing else in life would you see a person do something based on such a teeny tiny percentage and yet for some twisted reason, if guns are involved, then the old line about, "well you'll never know when you'll need it" gets trotted out. If you're going to base your actions on that small a percentage then I'd better find a parachute in your closet just because.
I won't, however, because human nature is such that we don't bother with things that we feel are unecessary and burdensome, unless we like them. This tells me, its not the stat, but the gun itself. If we are really gpoing to put some perspective on this, I bet that some of the people who carry at home are smokers. They are going to sit here and argue that something with a .00000000000000000000001% chance of happening is worth precaution, but they cant be bothered to stop something that has a 1 in 3 chance or whatever of killing them?
Thats the hypocracy.
Of course there is the other alternative that WA suggested. Namely that someone really does fear home invasions on a daily basis, in which case I submit that they have problems far beyond the reach of any solution that any firearm could provide.
And why don't you asked Pax how old her kids were when she started carrying.
SilentHitz
New member
I don't use a bunch of numbers to decide if I carry or not. I carry because of my experiences in the real world...period. Stats are just that, and you can crunch numbers to suit any needs, political polls do this all the time, as do antis to try and make a point.
Bottom line is, I carry because my over 1/2 century life on this planet has taught me a lot. One of those things is the fact you better be prepared for unexpected things, and anyone who doesn't know home invasion is on the rise, must be living on a much better planet than we live on. Silent out...
Man, this thread got pretty serious. In response to a few things ive read/skimmed over, i do not carry 24/7, but it is within reach. When i go out, providing i am not going somewhere guns are restricted (school, etc), its on my hip. When i come home, i dont take it off til i go to bed. I just got up a couple hours ago, yet my gun is still on my nightstand. when i leave to run errands this afternoon tho, ill be sure to strap it on.
RedneckFur
New member
I've heard about folks who cary a CCW on them at home, and a few that even move a shotgun and rifle with them from room to room as they move around their house. If that makes you feel better, go for it, but its a life that I do not want.
A criminal getting in to my home is going to take some time, and make alot of noise. If i need to get a gun at home, its only a few steps to the bedroom and I can pick up whatever I like.
A criminal getting in to my home is going to take some time, and make alot of noise. If i need to get a gun at home, its only a few steps to the bedroom and I can pick up whatever I like.
Wildalaska
Moderator
I assume you wear a lightning rod on your head for the unexpected lightning strike too?
I have seen reports of toilets blowing up, so I wear body armor on the can...
WildcombatzoneAlaska TM
geterdun444
Inactive
Live Free or Die
This is the state motto of New Hampshire where I happen to Live. I will say this I always have a weapon on my person. Not only for home and personal protection but for the peace of mind it gives me this day in age. Here if you can legaly buy a pistol you can get a CCW permit. And you know what. we have very little violent crime. Kind of funny when you know there is a very good possibility of getting shot doing something wrong you generaly wont do it.
Plus in my line of work better be safe than sorry.
Take your kids to a firearms saftey class taught by someone else beacuase veryone knows kids dont listen to thier own parents
This is the state motto of New Hampshire where I happen to Live. I will say this I always have a weapon on my person. Not only for home and personal protection but for the peace of mind it gives me this day in age. Here if you can legaly buy a pistol you can get a CCW permit. And you know what. we have very little violent crime. Kind of funny when you know there is a very good possibility of getting shot doing something wrong you generaly wont do it.
Plus in my line of work better be safe than sorry.
Take your kids to a firearms saftey class taught by someone else beacuase veryone knows kids dont listen to thier own parents
Wildalaska
Moderator
24/7 too? Whats your technique for sleeping?..... I frequently wake up when my pajama holster gets tangled in my woobie.....
Wildandigotabruiseonmybuttfromthegunbouncingupanddownwhen...Alaska TM
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Please rephrase that statement for my peace of mind. I know "woobie" is a word you northerners sometimes use to refer to a childhood blanket or comforting item...but to many southerners a "woobie" is something totally different. That different meaning makes your statement very disturbing to some of us.
Wildalaska
Moderator
So did you walk out of the Terry garr, Michael keaton movie that I can never remember the title of?
WildallrightwhatsasouthernwoobiepmmeAlaska TM
woobiewoobiewoobiewoobiewoobiewoobie
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