Do Dinosaurs still roam the earth?
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44caliberkid
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I have a Desert Eagle 44 Magnum, love it. Just over a year ago I walked into a shop that had a 357 Coonan, and it came home with me. Coonan was closed when I bought it, and they sold all the assets recently, so there may be no more. Another shop had two magazines and sold them to me for retail, 49.95 each. Now they are $250 - $300 on GB.
People keep saying the 357 isn't as powerful or same power as the 10mm, but like the original 10, current 357 factory loading are nothing like the 1930's version. I can get 158 grain bullets over 1400 fps and 125's to 1700. And full house 357's in a Coonan don't recoil anywhere near as bad as in a revolver.
I love my 1911's, but the DE and the Coonan are my favorite pistols in my collection.
People keep saying the 357 isn't as powerful or same power as the 10mm, but like the original 10, current 357 factory loading are nothing like the 1930's version. I can get 158 grain bullets over 1400 fps and 125's to 1700. And full house 357's in a Coonan don't recoil anywhere near as bad as in a revolver.
I love my 1911's, but the DE and the Coonan are my favorite pistols in my collection.
This, to me, is one of the big advantages to magnum semi autos. It's not that the semi auto action "softens" the recoil as much as it is the different shape of the grip compared to revolvers, that changes the feel of the recoil, drastically.
Especially when the recoil gets up there, to .44 Mag levels, or above. I don't have a problem with full house .357 in my revolvers. N frame S&W and Ruger New Model Blackhawk. Nor in my Contender, but face it, in a Contender, recoil is essentially irrelevant, so long as the gun doesn't hit you or fly out of your hands..
)The Coonan is, literally the "lightweight" of magnum autos. And it has about the "smallest" grip. Radically different feel than a revolver.
If you can handle the size (and weight) of the Desert Eagle grip, a DE in .357 mag is a fun thing. Yes, 125gr jhps to over 1700fps!!!! from a 6" barrel. 9 rounds in the magazine. And, while the muzzle blast is on the fierce side felt recoil is light, and I mean feels like less than a 9mm. It's something you have to experience to really understand. HUGE blast but the gun barely seems to move. For me, that alone is "worth the price of admission".
For others, not so much...
Recoil of the DE .44 is much, much more pleasant than either my DA or SA revolvers in that caliber. TO me, it feels like a snappy .45acp in a 1911a1.
Lots of people will expound endlessly about how these guns aren't "practical", and I'll just smile, and nod, and do my thing with my magnums. Life shouldn't be 100% about what is practical, and mine, isn't.
silvermane_1
New member
I owed one, but traded it for my 480 Ruger SRH though, and yeah they are about as thin as a 1911, the AUTOMAG IV that is.I got a chance to shoot an Automag IV .45WM a few weeks back. Nice gun, very ..slender feeling. Recoil wasn't bad (but then, my standards might not be yours,
Both the owner, and I, preferred my LAR GRIZZLY.
and no, I wasn't interested in a trade!
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silvermane_1
New member
The 8.5mm MARS boasted a velocity of 1700 FPS.
Since this thread got brought up in another thread and I have something to add on the subject, yet don't want to derail the other thread, I'm going to go ahead and revive this thread yet again over a year since the last post.
Semiautomatic Magnum Pistols are one of those exotic types of firearms that seems to catch my eye, get me all fired up, and appeal to my somewhat eccentric tastes. Unfortunately, they're too scarce, too expensive, and would require me to get into reloading to support. Besides, out of all the ones that I've seen, only the LAR Grizzly really appeals to me.
I've had folks say to me in the past that if I want something like an LAR Grizzly, only less expensive, then I should get a 1911 then have it converted to .460 Rowland, but that doesn't appeal to me for a number of reasons. For one, it's a conversion, and I'd rather have something that was designed to shoot magnum cartridges rather than converted to shoot them. I'm skeptical that all it requires to make a firearm designed to handle 23,000psi capable of handling 40,000psi is a set of heavier springs and a compensator. I mean, has anyone ever really ran a 1911 converted to .460 Rowland hard and observed how well it actually holds up to a steady diet of the stuff? Granted that not many have the money to do so, myself included, but still. Furthermore, .460 Rowland is much like so many of these other magnum cartridges that these magnum pistols come chambered in, is not a common cartridge, so even reloading for it isn't cheap. Lastly, I have to question whether I would enjoy shooting a .460 Rowland 1911 any more than I would a 10mm Auto 1911, or otherwise a less extensively modified 1911 in .45 Super.
Ultimately, my pursuit of a Semiautomatic Magnum Pistol went as far as me getting an H&K USP45 Elite and a few boxes of .45 Super.
I've had some folks argue that .45 Super isn't a "real" Magnum Cartridge because it isn't a lengthened version of an existing cartridge, but rather more of an overpressure variant of the .45 ACP in a stronger case, but it scratches the itch well enough for me, and features performance roughly on par with .357 Magnum/10mm Auto with a larger diameter bullet, so close enough.
That being said, if anyone ever revives the LAR Grizzly, then I could see buying one chambered in .44 Magnum.
Semiautomatic Magnum Pistols are one of those exotic types of firearms that seems to catch my eye, get me all fired up, and appeal to my somewhat eccentric tastes. Unfortunately, they're too scarce, too expensive, and would require me to get into reloading to support. Besides, out of all the ones that I've seen, only the LAR Grizzly really appeals to me.
I've had folks say to me in the past that if I want something like an LAR Grizzly, only less expensive, then I should get a 1911 then have it converted to .460 Rowland, but that doesn't appeal to me for a number of reasons. For one, it's a conversion, and I'd rather have something that was designed to shoot magnum cartridges rather than converted to shoot them. I'm skeptical that all it requires to make a firearm designed to handle 23,000psi capable of handling 40,000psi is a set of heavier springs and a compensator. I mean, has anyone ever really ran a 1911 converted to .460 Rowland hard and observed how well it actually holds up to a steady diet of the stuff? Granted that not many have the money to do so, myself included, but still. Furthermore, .460 Rowland is much like so many of these other magnum cartridges that these magnum pistols come chambered in, is not a common cartridge, so even reloading for it isn't cheap. Lastly, I have to question whether I would enjoy shooting a .460 Rowland 1911 any more than I would a 10mm Auto 1911, or otherwise a less extensively modified 1911 in .45 Super.
Ultimately, my pursuit of a Semiautomatic Magnum Pistol went as far as me getting an H&K USP45 Elite and a few boxes of .45 Super.
I've had some folks argue that .45 Super isn't a "real" Magnum Cartridge because it isn't a lengthened version of an existing cartridge, but rather more of an overpressure variant of the .45 ACP in a stronger case, but it scratches the itch well enough for me, and features performance roughly on par with .357 Magnum/10mm Auto with a larger diameter bullet, so close enough.
That being said, if anyone ever revives the LAR Grizzly, then I could see buying one chambered in .44 Magnum.
Why wait??
I mean why wait until it is "revived" by some future maker? It may never happen. There are Grizzlies on the market still, all you need is the cash and the patience to wait until you find just what you want for sale somewhere.
Though you may not be happy with one in .44 Mag. I wasn't very happy with the one I had, and happily traded it (and some more cash) for one in .45 Win Mag (the more cash was due to the hard chrome finish, (my .44 was blued) and a couple hundred rounds of ammo that came with the .45 win mag gun.
What I didn't care for about my .44 Griz was that there were some feeding issues, and if I remember right, the magazines would only hold 6, due to the space taken up by the rimmed case. The .45 Win magazine holds 7.
Other than that, it was a fine gun. The .45 I have now is even better.
My take on the .45 Super and the .460 Rowland is, why bother?? You don't get nearly as much from either of them as from a true magnum round, and unless, for some reason you are wedded to a duty size pistol (even on the large end of the class) I don't see a benefit. I'm happy to go to a larger gun, to get the greater power it offers, and the greater control the large heavy pistol brings with it.
One of the things I love most about my magnum semi autos is the recoil. And, by that I mean they recoil LESS than magnum revolvers. And, the feel is different, due to the different shape of the grip.
Yes, the revolvers are lighter, and there's no free lunch, but I will take the larger, heavier semi auto magnum if I have the choice, because its more pleasant to shoot.
They aren't EDC guns, and the only concealment you get with one of my magnums is a shoulder holster under a field jacket, but, so what?? I have other smaller "regular" pistols to fill those needs.
I can shoot the same weight and caliber bullets the magnum revolvers do, and sometimes at even higher velocities than the revolvers can manage, and do it with less felt recoil. That's a win, in my book.
A local indoor range used to have bowling pin shoots back in the late 80s and early 90s (alas, no more for a long time now) and I'm not a speed shooter who practices but I've taken 5 pins off the table in 5.36 seconds with my .44 Auto Mag and 7 pins in 4.37 seconds using a Desert Eagle .357 mag. Didn't even place 3rd, I'm not in the class of the good pin shooters, nor are my magnums, but it was FUN! And, they had to get fresh pins for each run!
I couldn't even come close to those times shooting a magnum revolver.
That's what I have my magnum pistols for, my personal enjoyment. And you might be surprised at some of the actual "practical" things they can do, as well.
Unless you're talking snub nose and concealment, if you can do it with a magnum revolver you can do it with a magnum semi auto. Though you can't do everything with every one of them. Desert Eagles should not be shot with lead bullets. EVER. The maker says so. I won't run lead bullets in my Wildey, either, though the maker didn't specifically prohibit them.
Auto Mag, Grizzly and Coonan will all run suitable lead slugs without problems. They are recoil, not gas operated.
If you can keep the lights on, kids have shoes, everyone gets enough to eat, then take some of your money and GET what you want. Get in now, or as soon as you can, so you can enjoy it.
IF you get paid on a regular basis, then every week, or month or whatever, you get more money. What you don't get, and money can't buy, is more TIME.
Simple, because being out of production means that I have to buy used, and that the firearm is no longer supported. Personally, I've never seen an LAR Grizzly in person, and wouldn't want to buy one without examining it first. Furthermore, I'm not a gunsmith, wouldn't know how to replace broken parts, or where to source them, and I wouldn't want to have to disassemble one to familiarize myself with its inner workings either.
As for why I would choose .44 Magnum over .45 WinMag... Because it's a more common cartridge which is easier/cheaper to obtain.
Why bother with .45 Super or .460 Rowland, you ask? Because they're both more powerful than more common pistol cartridges, yet more available/accessible than long out-of-production Magnum Pistols, not to mention smaller/lighter, so they can actually serve a practical purpose as a wilderness defense firearm.
Furthermore, it seems silly to me to accept a Coonan as a Magnum Pistol yet deny 10mm Auto, .45 Super/.450 SMC, or .460 Rowland which are capable of equal or better ballistics performance with a larger diameter bullet.
So yeah, as much as I would like to own a LAR Grizzly, I opted for an H&K USP45 Elite because they're still in production, I wanted one, they're capable of shooting .45 Super sans modifications, and .45 Super is still a powerful cartridge in the greater scheme of things, so convenience was ultimately the deciding factor.
I'm not so determined to own a Magnum Pistol that I would resort to buying an expensive, out-of-production firearm on the internet, then have to buy all of the necessary equipment to feed it and keep it going should something break. Heck, I would sooner buy a Desert Eagle, but they're just too big, too clunky, and just not to my taste. I would rather buy something less powerful that's more readily available and easier to maintain, and if that isn't enough for me to be accepted into the Magnum Pistol Fan Club, then so be it, I bought it for the fun of shooting a powerful semiautomatic pistol.
As for why I would choose .44 Magnum over .45 WinMag... Because it's a more common cartridge which is easier/cheaper to obtain.
Why bother with .45 Super or .460 Rowland, you ask? Because they're both more powerful than more common pistol cartridges, yet more available/accessible than long out-of-production Magnum Pistols, not to mention smaller/lighter, so they can actually serve a practical purpose as a wilderness defense firearm.
Furthermore, it seems silly to me to accept a Coonan as a Magnum Pistol yet deny 10mm Auto, .45 Super/.450 SMC, or .460 Rowland which are capable of equal or better ballistics performance with a larger diameter bullet.
So yeah, as much as I would like to own a LAR Grizzly, I opted for an H&K USP45 Elite because they're still in production, I wanted one, they're capable of shooting .45 Super sans modifications, and .45 Super is still a powerful cartridge in the greater scheme of things, so convenience was ultimately the deciding factor.
I'm not so determined to own a Magnum Pistol that I would resort to buying an expensive, out-of-production firearm on the internet, then have to buy all of the necessary equipment to feed it and keep it going should something break. Heck, I would sooner buy a Desert Eagle, but they're just too big, too clunky, and just not to my taste. I would rather buy something less powerful that's more readily available and easier to maintain, and if that isn't enough for me to be accepted into the Magnum Pistol Fan Club, then so be it, I bought it for the fun of shooting a powerful semiautomatic pistol.
44 AMP,
I attribute a lot of the difference in feel between the guns of this topic and revolvers is the distance between the grip and the bore centerline. The TC Contender is very similar to the revolvers in this regard.
My only experience with one was a DE in 44 mag that I shot a couple of times. It was so much more pleasant to me than a Ruger SA in the same cartridge or one of my Contenders in 357 Max or Ruger/TC only 45 Colts. The lower centerline puts more energy into straight back (which I seem to tolerate OK) and less into muzzle flip (which seems to leave my wrist sore).
I attribute a lot of the difference in feel between the guns of this topic and revolvers is the distance between the grip and the bore centerline. The TC Contender is very similar to the revolvers in this regard.
My only experience with one was a DE in 44 mag that I shot a couple of times. It was so much more pleasant to me than a Ruger SA in the same cartridge or one of my Contenders in 357 Max or Ruger/TC only 45 Colts. The lower centerline puts more energy into straight back (which I seem to tolerate OK) and less into muzzle flip (which seems to leave my wrist sore).
You are absolutely correct, semi auto pistols have a lower grip to bore axis height than revolvers. This results in less rotational torque when fired (muzzle lift) in guns of similar caliber and weight. Since magnum caliber semi autos generally weigh more than the same caliber revolvers, this also adds to the damping of muzzle rise.
Next is the shape of the grip itself. Since the autos require you to grip around the magazine, this induces a different shape and minimum size not found on revolvers. SO, its a much different feel.
In my opinion, the Desert Eagle has the worst grip of the magnum semis. It is just excessively large. My other magnum semis, all shooting cartridges of the same length as the DE have (slightly) smaller grips and are more easily handled by my hands, I wear a size 9 glove.
I have Ruger SA's, S&W DA's, a Contender, and four different semi autos in the .44 Magnum/45Win Mag class. The Contender (10" .44Mag) jumps the most, and to an amazing degree.
The Desert Eagle is the heaviest and recoil is mild in comparison.
Approximately 1980 ,the Hunt brothers of Texas were behind an attempt to corner the silver market.
A local gun/surplus store jumped on the wagon by pricing some guns in terms of a price in silver coins.
Among them was a 44 Auto Mag,NIB. My older brother bought it for some silly amount of pocket change.
I don't recall for sure,but I think it was a Jurras rather than an AMT.
I have enjoyed shooting one.
On the 460 Rowland: This same brother is a fan. I've done some work on a couple. He had a 260 gr or so custom bullet mold made.The gun uses a 1911 magazine,so LOA is the same. The case is longer,which subtracts from available bullet ogive length. The shoulder on common cast SWC's ,etc makes bullets an issue. I.myself,am not a 460 Rowland fan. I will say it does deliver.
I might be mistaken,but I believe we chrono'd over 1300 with that 260 gr bullet. IMO,thats full 44 magnum/44 Automag performance.
He changed over to building them on a Glock. He said it worked out better.
I run my 1911 in 45 ACP and I don't hot rod it. I will say 45 Super is interesting. I'd use a square firing pin stop . I'd test with an 18 lb spring till it just barely worked the slide stop,then I'd put in a 16 lb spring. Whatever load worked good with a 16 lb spring would be as hot as I'd go. I don't care the fps. I don't like extra heavy recoil springs. 1911's don't.either.
A local gun/surplus store jumped on the wagon by pricing some guns in terms of a price in silver coins.
Among them was a 44 Auto Mag,NIB. My older brother bought it for some silly amount of pocket change.
I don't recall for sure,but I think it was a Jurras rather than an AMT.
I have enjoyed shooting one.
On the 460 Rowland: This same brother is a fan. I've done some work on a couple. He had a 260 gr or so custom bullet mold made.The gun uses a 1911 magazine,so LOA is the same. The case is longer,which subtracts from available bullet ogive length. The shoulder on common cast SWC's ,etc makes bullets an issue. I.myself,am not a 460 Rowland fan. I will say it does deliver.
I might be mistaken,but I believe we chrono'd over 1300 with that 260 gr bullet. IMO,thats full 44 magnum/44 Automag performance.
He changed over to building them on a Glock. He said it worked out better.
I run my 1911 in 45 ACP and I don't hot rod it. I will say 45 Super is interesting. I'd use a square firing pin stop . I'd test with an 18 lb spring till it just barely worked the slide stop,then I'd put in a 16 lb spring. Whatever load worked good with a 16 lb spring would be as hot as I'd go. I don't care the fps. I don't like extra heavy recoil springs. 1911's don't.either.
This is a point that gets confusing for those folks who haven't researched the actual history of the guns.
The .44 Auto Mag (two word name) was originally built by the Auto Mag Company, originally at a Pasedena location and then at a North Hollywood address. That company went under (for reasons I'll skip here), and Thomas Oil Company bought up the rights, tooling, and remaining parts, and formed T.D.E. company (Trust Deed Estates) with the intention of completing the already existing frames, at an El Monte Ca address, and they hired Harry Sanford, who had run the original Auto Mag company, to manage it.
They did finish the existing parts stock, and then went on and made new guns for several years, producing the numerical bulk of the Auto Mags made. Later, they sold worldwide distributor rights to Lee Jurras (of Super Vel ammo fame), and the last production TDE guns have Jurras's name and Lion head logo on them. After that, production was essentially over, though High Standard had the rights and tooling for a little bit and produced a few guns, but not in any significant numbers.
AMT was Arcadia Machine & Tool, and they made the Automags (one word name), which, outside of the same sounding name, are completely different gun designs than the Auto Mag pistols. Further confusing the matter is the fact that after the Auto Mag ended, Harry Sanford worked at AMT and was involved in producing the Automags, to some degree.
AMT never made any Auto Mags, they made the Automag II (.22WMR), the Automag III (.30 carbine) the Automag IV (.45 Win Mag and reportedly a handful in 9mm Win Mag), and the Automag V (.50 AE).
Being a wildcat, and having no idea what loads were being run, I won't dispute your memory, but currently available data indicates 1300fps witha 260gr is high. 1300 with a 200 or a 230 is possible but no one I've seen is saying they get that with a 260gr. Its possible you did get that much, and its possible your load was well above what is used today.
The .44 Auto Mag is like that, too. Data in the loading manuals (Speer, Hornady shows it topping out in the 1300fps range with 240s and slightly less with 265s, but the loads used by the wildcatters in the early days were HOTTER, and when they claimed they got 1600fps with a 240gr from a 6.5" barrel, they got it!
But, those loads are very hard on the guns. I have one article stating that, with the original hot .44AMP loads, the bolt rotation pins last 500-750rnds, before breaking. Running 240s in the 1300fps range doesn't stress the gun nearly as much and it lasts considerably longer.
I have chronographed some of the original CDM .44AMP factory ammo, and it is in the 1300fps range. And quite impressive, despite not being a 1600fps load.
HiBC said:
When it comes to the 1911, I would stick with standard pressure .45 ACP. If you want a 1911 that shoots something hotter, then go with a 1911 chambered in .38 Super or 10mm Auto. A standard .45 1911 really wasn't built for 28,000psi, and can't accept a proper ramped barrel.
If you want to shoot .45 Super, then either get an H&K USP and shoot it right out of the box with no modifications necessary, or modify something more durable like a CZ-97, Glock 21/41, S&W 4506, M&P45, or a SIG P220.
I have so far,wih my 45 ACP 1911 s
I'm fairly familiar with the 1911. I've built a couple of 460 Rowlands,some 45 ACPs,a 38 Super race gun. Worked on a few more.
I owned a circa 1970's race gun built by Guncraft in Florida. Ben Jones built it.. Unique pivoting trigger. Single stack. It was a well used competition gun that ran a 40 k psi ,1400 fps +. Its over 40 years old.
Its tight and in excellent shape. We used high speed industrial video to determine it cycles best with a 12 lb recoil spring. The comp works good.After I gave that gun to a brother,he had a Gentleman named Andy in Denver "give it a little love" The thing runs like a sewing machine.
I'm convinced that what beats up a 1911 is over powered recoil springs slamming the barrel/slide weight into the slide stop.A 24 lb spring is part of why I'm not crazy about the 460 Rowland in a 1911,
So,setting the chrono aside,using proper powders, IF I built a 1911 45 Super,
As I said,I'd start with an 18 b spring. I'd increase charge till the slide just stayed back on last round. Then I'd put in a 16 lb spring. Then I might get the chrono out,but whether I got 900 fps or 1050 or 1100 would not matter.
That gun would run a long time. I like Kart barrels and I know how to fit them. I use Prussian blue a lot,if that says anything.
Having said all that, I agree with you. Even though I just don't care for the feel of a Glock, If I want a more powerful semi auto, the thing to do is just get a Glock 20 in 10mm. What? $600? Can't beat it.
Another issue....Its sort of like having a leftover AR-15 barrel nut. It can inspire another rifle build.
I have 1911frames,slides,barrels etc. And the curse of a creative imagination. Also,more than one 1911 45 ACP. I can easily try a qty of Starline 45 Super brass,a a square firing pin stop,and a 16 and 18 lb pair of springs. I don't know what I'll get. Likely just a strong +P with brass that won't goose egg in a non ramped barrel.
Big game hunting cartridges aside, for SD situations, time to first shot will be about the same regardless of cartridge,.
After that,recoil and controllability come into play for time to follow up shots.
We get to decide if a quicker 45 900 fps second shot is worth more than a 1300 fps ,slower second shot.
My answer? Depends on the day.
But we are way off topic.
My 44 Auto Mag shooting was splitting firewood. It was fun. The Freedom Arms 454 Casull had me hearing footsteps. I got squinty. Those were serious Casull data 50 to 60 k loads Yowwza!!
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Yeah, overweight recoil springs will result in inverse battering of any firearm, but it seems to be even worse for firearms like the 1911 with a removable barrel bushing, hence why most 10mm 1911s use bull barrels.
There are a lot of folks (including Buffalo Bore) who say that even an H&K USP45 should have heavier recoil springs installed if you intend to shoot .45 Super consistently, because the H&K USP45 only ships with a 16lb RSA, but what they fail to realize is that it isn't the weight of the RSA but the overall design which enables the USP45 to safely handle .45 Super, and seeing as the Federal Cartridge Company fired a total of 6000 Proof Loads through a USP before they sent it in to H&K for evaluation, with the end result being merely that it need new springs, I'd say that it's good to go right out of the box. I've seen posts on other forums by folks who have run their USP45s for a long time with +P and Super loads too.
That being said, if you want to go for a .45 Super build using spare 1911 parts, then go to town. It's certainly possible to build a 1911 that can handle .45 Super, it's just best to use a .38 Super or 10mm Auto 1911 Frame as a starting point since they're already cut to accept ramped barrels and there's no doubt that they can handle 28,000psi .45 Super loads when they are rated for the substantially higher pressure .38 Super (36,500psi) or 10mm Auto (37,500psi) cartridge.
I don't like the Glock's grip either, although the Gen 5 ships with some backstraps that help to make the grip angle a bit more comfortable in the hand. But then again, my H&K USP45 doesn't fit my hand quite perfectly either, it's extremely thick, but that's what you get with a double-stack .45. Personally though, if H&K were to offer a single stack variant of the USP45 with the same grip dimensions as a 1911, then I would be all over that in a heartbeat. I'd happily accept the loss of 4 rounds in the magazine in exchange for a slimmer grip.
There are a lot of folks (including Buffalo Bore) who say that even an H&K USP45 should have heavier recoil springs installed if you intend to shoot .45 Super consistently, because the H&K USP45 only ships with a 16lb RSA, but what they fail to realize is that it isn't the weight of the RSA but the overall design which enables the USP45 to safely handle .45 Super, and seeing as the Federal Cartridge Company fired a total of 6000 Proof Loads through a USP before they sent it in to H&K for evaluation, with the end result being merely that it need new springs, I'd say that it's good to go right out of the box. I've seen posts on other forums by folks who have run their USP45s for a long time with +P and Super loads too.
That being said, if you want to go for a .45 Super build using spare 1911 parts, then go to town. It's certainly possible to build a 1911 that can handle .45 Super, it's just best to use a .38 Super or 10mm Auto 1911 Frame as a starting point since they're already cut to accept ramped barrels and there's no doubt that they can handle 28,000psi .45 Super loads when they are rated for the substantially higher pressure .38 Super (36,500psi) or 10mm Auto (37,500psi) cartridge.
I don't like the Glock's grip either, although the Gen 5 ships with some backstraps that help to make the grip angle a bit more comfortable in the hand. But then again, my H&K USP45 doesn't fit my hand quite perfectly either, it's extremely thick, but that's what you get with a double-stack .45. Personally though, if H&K were to offer a single stack variant of the USP45 with the same grip dimensions as a 1911, then I would be all over that in a heartbeat. I'd happily accept the loss of 4 rounds in the magazine in exchange for a slimmer grip.
Good stuff,thanks.
I have access to,and know how to run a Bridgeport. I've cut 1911 frames for ramp before.
But...While I'm all for ramped bbls in a 38 Super, there is a small fly in the ointment for ramped 45 bbls. I'm not saying it does not work,but there may be some feed problems with wider meplat bullets.
The mag feed lips come up to the same level. That means the center axis of the 38 Super cartridge will exit the magazine at a slightly higher elevation than the 45 ACP. I discovered with the Rowland using the Clark kit,the lower edge of the meplat can snag the lower edge of the ramp.
The idea behind the 45 Super brass is a thick enough case web to cover the unsupported chamber. Its designed to work without a ramp.
In any case,if I did set up a 45 Super, I just can't afford to run Buffalo Bore ammo. I'd load my own to suit the gun. Duplicating factory load velocity would not be a goal. Reliable slide stop function with a 16 lb spring ,a square firing pin stop, and a John Moses spec mainspring will get me enough,whatever it is. All in the name of fun.
I have access to,and know how to run a Bridgeport. I've cut 1911 frames for ramp before.
But...While I'm all for ramped bbls in a 38 Super, there is a small fly in the ointment for ramped 45 bbls. I'm not saying it does not work,but there may be some feed problems with wider meplat bullets.
The mag feed lips come up to the same level. That means the center axis of the 38 Super cartridge will exit the magazine at a slightly higher elevation than the 45 ACP. I discovered with the Rowland using the Clark kit,the lower edge of the meplat can snag the lower edge of the ramp.
The idea behind the 45 Super brass is a thick enough case web to cover the unsupported chamber. Its designed to work without a ramp.
In any case,if I did set up a 45 Super, I just can't afford to run Buffalo Bore ammo. I'd load my own to suit the gun. Duplicating factory load velocity would not be a goal. Reliable slide stop function with a 16 lb spring ,a square firing pin stop, and a John Moses spec mainspring will get me enough,whatever it is. All in the name of fun.
Ah, I've heard similar reports from others in the know. The USP45 has a ramped barrel, and as a result it supposedly doesn't feed semiwadcutters reliably.
While the .45 Super has stronger brass that .45 ACP, it can still deform from lack of support if you load it too hot. Supposedly, that's why .450 SMC uses a small rifle primer instead of a large pistol primer like .45 Super, so that it can be loaded as hot or even hotter than .45 Super yet be fired from a standard unramped 1911 barrel. My issue with .450 SMC is that it's even higher pressure than .45 Super, 32,000psi vs 28,000psi. I don't recall exactly how high the pressure is of a SAAMI Spec .45 ACP Proof Load, but IIRC it's between 29,500psi and 33,000psi, making .450 SMC as hot or even hotter than a Proof Load, so I personally wouldn't be comfortable shooting something that hot out of anything but a .38 Super or 10mm Auto Frame, and those are obviously already cut for ramps, so it defeats the whole purpose for me.
Makes sense, the goal of handloading has always been the pursuit of finding a load that functions optimally in the user's firearm, with cost savings being a fringe benefit, as far as I'm concerned. Experimenting with atomic loads is getting into Bubba Territory, if you ask me.
Frankly, I'm not into overpressure loads in general, not even +P, as it always struck me as attempting to push a cartridge beyond the parameters of its own intended function. Generally speaking, I'm of the opinion that if Standard Pressure isn't hot enough for your intended role, then you're better off moving up to a more powerful cartridge.
.45 Super just lands in a sort of gray area for me, where I don't really consider it to be an overpressure .45 ACP load yet I don't really quite consider it to be its own distinct cartridge either. If anything, I would classify it as an "Enhanced" variant of the .45 ACP cartridge, which was what it was designed to be. With the same dimensions and same bullet weights as .45 ACP, but with stronger brass and higher performance. Did the .45 ACP need to be enhanced? No, it has its role and its performance has been satisfactory in that role for nearly a century until folks started thinking that more power and better hard barrier penetration was necessary. Still, it serves as a nice alternative to 10mm Auto for folks who already own a .45 ACP Pistol yet desire higher performance.
While the .45 Super has stronger brass that .45 ACP, it can still deform from lack of support if you load it too hot. Supposedly, that's why .450 SMC uses a small rifle primer instead of a large pistol primer like .45 Super, so that it can be loaded as hot or even hotter than .45 Super yet be fired from a standard unramped 1911 barrel. My issue with .450 SMC is that it's even higher pressure than .45 Super, 32,000psi vs 28,000psi. I don't recall exactly how high the pressure is of a SAAMI Spec .45 ACP Proof Load, but IIRC it's between 29,500psi and 33,000psi, making .450 SMC as hot or even hotter than a Proof Load, so I personally wouldn't be comfortable shooting something that hot out of anything but a .38 Super or 10mm Auto Frame, and those are obviously already cut for ramps, so it defeats the whole purpose for me.
Makes sense, the goal of handloading has always been the pursuit of finding a load that functions optimally in the user's firearm, with cost savings being a fringe benefit, as far as I'm concerned. Experimenting with atomic loads is getting into Bubba Territory, if you ask me.
Frankly, I'm not into overpressure loads in general, not even +P, as it always struck me as attempting to push a cartridge beyond the parameters of its own intended function. Generally speaking, I'm of the opinion that if Standard Pressure isn't hot enough for your intended role, then you're better off moving up to a more powerful cartridge.
.45 Super just lands in a sort of gray area for me, where I don't really consider it to be an overpressure .45 ACP load yet I don't really quite consider it to be its own distinct cartridge either. If anything, I would classify it as an "Enhanced" variant of the .45 ACP cartridge, which was what it was designed to be. With the same dimensions and same bullet weights as .45 ACP, but with stronger brass and higher performance. Did the .45 ACP need to be enhanced? No, it has its role and its performance has been satisfactory in that role for nearly a century until folks started thinking that more power and better hard barrier penetration was necessary. Still, it serves as a nice alternative to 10mm Auto for folks who already own a .45 ACP Pistol yet desire higher performance.
My second gun was a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle, back in 1988 (the first was a S&W 422, talk of a giant leap in caliber and recoil).
At first I loved it, the shape, size, weight, technology
However it never ran properly, despite trying every commercial load I could find and then reloading my own
I think they didn’t master the extraction of a rimmed revolver case
Then the slide cracked, where the piston pushes it. That was the final nail in the coffin and I quickly got rid of it
But I then bought an LAR Grizzly in .45 Win Mag which runs very well, still have it
And some years ago I realised a teenage dream and acquired an Auto Mag in .44 AMP
At first I loved it, the shape, size, weight, technology
However it never ran properly, despite trying every commercial load I could find and then reloading my own
I think they didn’t master the extraction of a rimmed revolver case
Then the slide cracked, where the piston pushes it. That was the final nail in the coffin and I quickly got rid of it
But I then bought an LAR Grizzly in .45 Win Mag which runs very well, still have it
And some years ago I realised a teenage dream and acquired an Auto Mag in .44 AMP