Do AR's jam that much?

I have a Colt with zero jams over a few thousand, w/no expectation of a future jam, and an Armalite AR-10 with zero(but only about 300 rounds so I don't count it). Both carbines.
Both have been a pure joy related to thier virtually 100% trouble free nature. Both are also relatively clean, kind of oily, and definately unmodified.:)

But I also have a mental list of what I have seen...even over the last few months. Ranging from a home-worked Bushmaster that doubled and the hammer wouldn't lock back, to home built this or that with a suspect buffer set up, another where the rounds were riding over the bolt every time...to a new Colt Gov't carbine and Colt mags first time out that jammed every other round, probobly right out of the box dry as a bone. Point being whether it's a magazine, bad handloads, or an owner who fools with things, the jams are real enough to see why tons of stories are out there floating around. Because for this, that, or the other reason...I have seen alot of repetitive AR jams at the range. Especially enough to know I don't need to fool with what works.:) It hasn't swayed me one iota from my own good fortune with that type of rifle.
 
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March 4, 2002. An RPG tore into the right engine of an MH-47 Chinook helicopter loaded with a quick-reaction force of Rangers in the Shahikot Mountains of eastern Afghanistan. The Chinook crashed atop Takur Ghar, a 10,000-foot peak infested with al-Qaida fighters.

Enemy fire poured into the fuselage, killing Rangers even before they got off the aircraft. Capt. Nate Self crawled out.

Once behind cover, Self tried to fire again, but his weapon jammed.

Instinctively, he tried to fix it with “immediate action,” a drill he’d practiced countless times.

“I pulled my charging handle back, and there was a round stuck in the chamber,” he recalled.

Like the rest of his men, Self always carried a cleaning rod zip-tied to the side of his weapon in case it failed to extract a round from the chamber.

“There was only one good way to get it out and that’s to ram it out with a cleaning rod,” he said. “I started to knock the round out by pushing the rod down the barrel, and it broke off. There was nothing I could do with it after that.”

The Rangers were fighting for their lives. Self left his covered position and ran under machine-gun fire to search for a working weapon.

*********************************************************

M4 failure suspected in deaths of U.S. soldiers at Afghan outpost

By The Associated Press

October 11, 2009, 12:11PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — In the chaos of an early morning assault on a remote U.S. outpost in eastern Afghanistan, Staff Sgt. Erich Phillips' M4 carbine quit firing as militant forces surrounded the base. The machine gun he grabbed after tossing the rifle aside didn't work either.

When the battle in the small village of Wanat ended, nine U.S. soldiers lay dead and 27 more were wounded. A detailed study of the attack by a military historian found that weapons failed repeatedly at a "critical moment" during the firefight on July 13, 2008, putting the outnumbered American troops at risk of being overrun by nearly 200 insurgents.
 
I've owned a Colt AR-15 for about 30 years and it has never once suffered a stoppage. Of importance, there was an article in American Rifleman years ago regarding reloading for the AR-15. They said that port pressure must be kept around 15,000 PSI for optimal functioning. I adopted one of their recommended loads and functioning has been perfect.

The Vietnam experience is to avoid ball powder. Keep the gun clean, use quality ammo and you'll be fine.
 
PH/CIB - both of those stories have been discussed here in detail. The M4's used by Self were past their useful service life but had not been replaced or repaired.

The 2009 AP article about COP Keating was flat out wrong - there was no failure of any M4 rifle in that fight. The history of the Battle of Wanat reported 2 M4s and 2 SAWs failing due to overheating from going cyclic. That has also been discussed in detail here; but no surprise that if you are burning up a belt-fed MG, an M4 can't keep up either.
 
but no surprise that if you are burning up a belt-fed MG, an M4 can't keep up either.
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The problem was that a platoon was facing overwhelming odds (200-400 enemy) and they shot their carbines in desperation to fend them off. A testament to the character of the men that they outlasted their forged steel weapons under those dire circumstances. A failure of command not of weapons it appears. Putting a platoon out in the middle of known Taliban lines of communication, locating them near the town far below surrounding hills, ignoring human intelligence, etc. No weapon is going to make up for those failures.
 
Please note, the Ranger's weapon didn't jam. It was the ammo - he pulled the bolt open, it failed to extract. Ranger M4's get the stiffest SOPMOD extractor kits ever made, and the ammo would not fire, or extract.

Lots of speculation there, we don't know if the weapons were test fired before the mission,which is SOP even in dumb ol' Infantry units.

These kind of single incident anecdotes are repeated over and over as some kind of "proof" that the AR doesn't work. There are just as many with other service weapons throughout the years, and the afteraction results that spell out exactly what the investigating experts discovered as the cause conveniently left out. ONLY the sensationalist introduction gets broadcast.

As a rule, magazines and ammunition are the #1 and #2 causes of stoppages. There is no guarantee that all the milspecs, inspections, and preventive maintenance will ensure the weapon goes bang everytime. There is no 100% guarantee. Ever.

Cleaning rods are NOT engineered to pound out stuck rounds, and one exposed to getting knocked around taped to the weapon can and will stress the threads and create cracks. Broken cleaning rod segments are common in military circles, they are expendable durables.

If you think a round will get stuck in the chamber, discover a new preventative. Don't trust cleaning rods, they fail.
 
To even assert that "people say ARs jam all the time" anymore is juvenile in itself. If you can't see past the very foremost layers of internet bull****, then you won't get anything from our testaments of the AR platforms reliability, but I'll impart it anyhow. My LAR15 is fantastic, rarely ever jams (less than any other auto-loader I own), and is extremely accurate. I love em
 
my rockriver jammed once with soft tips. i shoot hundreds of rounds between cleanings. my buddy has a dpms that i doubt he has ever cleaned. never a single jam. a work friend bought a colt chambered in 7.62x39 and it jammed every round.
 
I've bashed the m16 but that was mainly due to the myths and stories that get handed down through the army.... but I.never had issues with the rifle. I did not serve in the Vietnam era but some of those rifles were still in circulation. I had even had an xm16 for a little while.

I did see a lot of stoppages happen to others, which I am almost sure were caused by the rifle being dripping and drenched in clp.


thanks Kraig and all others who have served. Thanks for all of your informative posts, they are a great contribution.
 
I've got a PWS Mk112 that I have about 1100rds through so far and the only thing I've done to date is add lube. Now sure, I'm aware that she's a piston rifle, but that's neither here nor there. The only issues I've had with properly maintained ARs have been with crap mags. Right now I'm running P-Mags and D&H Defense and they are giving me the love.
 
"Myths and stories handed down in the Army?" Not on any approved program of instruction.

What you get in the Army is all the BS stories from the newbs who have barely transitioned from uninformed wannabe to PV1. That's NOT a valid database of experienced opinion - just a bunch of guys who likely talked about guns with others equally informed, who also didn't serve. Typically, standing at a gun counter.

They seem to literally absorb the colorful stories of some grizzled vet relating the horror of war, when it's more likely their rugged looks came from overindulging in bottled courage along with their "memories." These guys never open their mouth when a REAL veteran is known to be present.

I'll go one step further - most who fill the air with all that stuff likely never served in a combat MOS - 90% are NOT, they are service support.

Real stories come in quiet, controlled circumstances from vets who have found an audience they can trust - not a casual conversation in a checkout line. If anything, you can spot them giving another vet the "eye," that direct stare that means "These guys are full of it."

Frankly, if they have to wear pins and patches on a hat or jacket, I avoid them. They may well have served and survived some tough battles, but if they are stuck in one war as their entire personality, that alone should be a red flag. Be cautious about accepting it all verbatim.
 
Tirod,
I have a former friend that I knew for a fact had never been in combat, when I found out about his false claims of no less than three different wars. That is what ended the friendship.
Even in today's environment, it is not wise to mention your veterans status to unknown people. Many people don't like veterans or the armed forces and loud braggerts do not help with peoples impressions either. I dont mention My own service in job interviews and such, unless specifically asked.

Any veteran should, however, respect all other veterans that served honorably regardless of the MOS, and whether or not they served in combat.

I entered the army in the 80's when alot of Vietnam era soldiers were heading to retirement, so I had an early biased opinion of the rifle. But like I said I never had any problems with the rifle myself and I realize now that most of it was BS.
 
I probably have over 1000 rounds through my Bushmaster M4 carbine. Never had a problem. I shoot American Eagle .223 and Winchester 5.56 55gr. I use Bushmaster mags. I clean and lube after every 100 to 200 rounds.
 
It jams occasionally. Had a malf during qualification fire, and a double feed during competition. Some might say it's the magazines, or it's the ammunition, but you have to evaluate the weapon as a complete system.

Regardless, my experience with ARs is that they're pretty reliable. You'll have an occasional hiccup, but do your malfunction clearing as trained and drive on.
 
tirod said:
"Myths and stories handed down in the Army?" Not on any approved program of instruction.
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I've been told all kinds of BS in formal instruction in the military about a wide variety of subjects - and I probably spread a bit of it myself just repeating what I'd been taught when I was an NCO.

Look at the manual for the M16 - it still says to make sure the gaps in the gas rings are staggered, even though that is a non-sensical requirement and an AR will run fine on a single gas ring. The way I was taught to obsessively clean rifles for 3 days in a row was probably the most destructive, suck-knowledge-out-of-my-head technique the military ever taught me. It probably took me ten years to learn that white glove cleaning created more problems than not cleaning at all.
 
It probably took me ten years to learn that white glove cleaning created more problems than not cleaning at all.
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I hated that BS. Finely I got even. I just took over as CO of a HHC company. I watched the unit armor on an ego trip, white gloving some guns that came back from the range. The guns were clean, just not white glove quality. That forced the shooters to remain late to meet the armor's criteria.

I figured I'd break him of sucking eggs. Next time there was an weapons issue I showed up with the white gloves. The same rules that say an armor is not to accept a dirty weapon upon turn in, also says he can't issue a dirty weapon.

We were using Breakfree. Breakfree is a continuing cleaning substance. You can have a rifle squeaky clean and two days later its dirty.


After having to spend three days (He was AGR so I didn't have to worry about his weekend drill), cleaning every rifle in the arms room, he was more tolerant on turn ins.

I have nothing against cleaning rifles but when you let ego and power plays get in the way, people start using Dry Cleaning Solvent to clean guns. That was harder on the guns then being dirty.

When I went to IOBC (Infantry Officer's Basic Course) we shot blanks, live rounds and didn't clean the guns at all. They were put in a rack, and a crane dropped into a large vat of solvent that cleaned them. They certainly wouldn't pass a "white glove" inspection but they functioned flawlessly.
 
# 1, to the OP, AR's get a way worse rap than they deserve. It is a fine combat weapon that can run in any environment with basic maintainence. Notice I didn't say you can bury it in mud, dig it up 5 years later and dump a magazine. Do we really need to build a rifle that, at best, will shot 3 moa but will allow you to dig it up during the zombie apocalypse and fire it? I'll take the 1 moa rifle that may need a little cleaning, or probably just a little lube if cleaning isn't feasible, after 1k rounds down range.

white glove cleaning created more problems than not cleaning at all.
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I still prefer clp for cleaning any semi-auto action. Solvent is for barrels only, IMHO.
 
Mine don't jam

Only use brownells or pmag mags and I put an o-ring behind the extractor of every one I assemble and sell/use. This includes my m-16 that runs mostly on full auto. 1 exception, I forgot cmags as well. Anyone know how the china copy performs?
Ld
 
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