Originally posted by BarrySDCA:
I find this whole issue somewhat humerous. The MMM idiots want to ban all guns. Yet, if they find themselves suddenly attacked or in the middle of a robbery, who are they going to look to for protection? Answer: The CCW holder who happens to be there, of course.
No, actually their response to an attack would be to try and verbally disuade the perp from committing whatever act of violence he intends to commit.....
seriously , they hate guns so much that they'd rather not even have a armed citizen help them..... Al the "hate mail we received prior to the MMM in DC was unreal.. I've talked to enough of them, that I'm sick of hearing it
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When women are disarmed, a rapist will never hear - Stop or I'll shoot!
Armed Citizens SAVE Lives!
<A HREF="http://www.wagc.com
http://sites.netscape.net/wagcga/homepage
Gun" TARGET=_blank>http://www.wagc.com
http://sites.netscape.net/wagcga/homepage
Gun</A> Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a
woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.
"Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum
est" ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands")
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)
- Status
paratrooper
New member
Has anyone asked this girl what her brother was doing when he was killed by a gun ? Was he selling drugs ? Was he running from an armed robbery ? Was he involved in ANY type of activity that would have caused his own untimely death ? How old was the brother ? These questions answers are probably very revealing .
I have seen the families of armed robbers that were shooting at cops claim that their "poor baby" was murdered in cold blood . With a rap sheet that would make your eyes blur with strain before you could finish all the entries these people are still just misunderstood , frightened children cut down in the prime of their life .
We had a shootout a few days ago here in KA where the cop was looking for someone else but the perp with a warrant on him thought they wanted him . He came out shooting with an AR-15 and got killed for his troubles . His family said he had accepted Jesus just the day before . They say he died like a soldier . The STUPIDITY of some people .
I wonder if his weapon was registered . Hmmmmmm.......
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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
I have seen the families of armed robbers that were shooting at cops claim that their "poor baby" was murdered in cold blood . With a rap sheet that would make your eyes blur with strain before you could finish all the entries these people are still just misunderstood , frightened children cut down in the prime of their life .
We had a shootout a few days ago here in KA where the cop was looking for someone else but the perp with a warrant on him thought they wanted him . He came out shooting with an AR-15 and got killed for his troubles . His family said he had accepted Jesus just the day before . They say he died like a soldier . The STUPIDITY of some people .
I wonder if his weapon was registered . Hmmmmmm.......
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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
Well...this person messaged me again. They told me I had no business telling everyone what she started with me. I take it some of my good friends here gave her their 2¢. 
I replied by telling her that if she feels that strongly about it, she should expect criticism and that if she isn't ready for that, she should shut up. 
I replied by telling her that if she feels that strongly about it, she should expect criticism and that if she isn't ready for that, she should shut up. bringthelove
Inactive
I can't belive you people. All you stupid people do is bash people. Whine all you want about how guns protect your families an s%^t like that. But the truth is that YOU are the problems. Don't you understand that by allowing people to own guns of their own you are causing people to kill other people. If guns weren't around then there would be no killing. How many of our children must be killed by there dad's or a criminal before you realize that all you are doing is increasing crime and getting people killed. All you want to do is gain power for yourselves and to hell with everyone else. All you are doing is empowering crooks. You are all evil and you need to be put in your place. Let's see how powerful you are when we get all guns banned.
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Guns don't kill people,
People who own guns kill people
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Guns don't kill people,
People who own guns kill people
Please make sure your children are not allowed to cook, use sissors, drive, use crosswalks. Be sure to not educate them about the hazards of everyday life.
A skillet is a tool, a weapon, part of a hobby as necessary at the moment. A hot skillet is a danger to a careless child, or adult.. A gun is all of the preceeding. The danger is in the useage.
The criminals by definition do not obey the law. Therefore banning gun ownership merely leaves the honest disarmed.
In this country you are free do do as you wish as long as you do not infringe on the freedom of others.
Sam...Less government, more individual responsibility...JBS
[This message has been edited by C.R.Sam (edited October 26, 2000).]
A skillet is a tool, a weapon, part of a hobby as necessary at the moment. A hot skillet is a danger to a careless child, or adult.. A gun is all of the preceeding. The danger is in the useage.
The criminals by definition do not obey the law. Therefore banning gun ownership merely leaves the honest disarmed.
In this country you are free do do as you wish as long as you do not infringe on the freedom of others.
Sam...Less government, more individual responsibility...JBS
[This message has been edited by C.R.Sam (edited October 26, 2000).]
bringthelove
Inactive
A tool is a helpful thing. All a gun is a tool of destructionn and it'd be helpful to destroy all you idiots. All you do is insult and demean. You have no facts to back up anything.
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Guns don't kill people,
People who own guns kill people
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Guns don't kill people,
People who own guns kill people
You come here spouting off with your "guns are evil" trash, then you threaten to shoot us. Isn't that a little hypocritical? You say all we do is insult and demean, but you are the one who calls us idiots and other things. Grow up a little, child, and find out what the world is really like. When you are ready to debate in a civilized manner, please come back.
guerilla1138
New member
ya did all you could man. i have tried to talkt o people like this and it always fails.
only anti i have ever talked to about this who i got to agree with me on anything is a good net freidn who lost two very close friends in a gas station hold up. i got her to agree that she or anyone else had the right, and could for all i cared, to not own guns and not like them as long as she/they didnt try to get mine taken away.
and P.S. FUD you da man!!!!!!! great responce.
only anti i have ever talked to about this who i got to agree with me on anything is a good net freidn who lost two very close friends in a gas station hold up. i got her to agree that she or anyone else had the right, and could for all i cared, to not own guns and not like them as long as she/they didnt try to get mine taken away.
and P.S. FUD you da man!!!!!!! great responce.
Bringthelove, it probably doesn't matter, but I'm curious as to whether you were the author of the previously mentioned ICQ spam. Just wondering.
As for your insults, I really can see how it might seem that way to you, but insulting as it sounds, I believe that your rant above clearly shows that you haven't thought this out very carefully. Read it again, slowly; did you support any of your points, or just throw out insults and rhetoric and then move on to the next assertion?
I have never "caused" anyone to kill anyone. If owning guns could cause anyone to kill anyone else, the streets would be rivers of blood. There are 90 MILLION gun owners in this country--about a third of the population, give or take. If a third of the population were murderers the other two thirds wouldn't last long. But of course they aren't, because owning a mere object can NOT, EVER, under ANY circumstances cause a person to use it for evil. People do evil because they want to and they choose it. No other reason, ever.
What we object to is this:
You observe that some people out there are killing other people. Some of them are using guns to do it.
You then observe that I also own guns and determine, by that one commonality, that I am of equal stature with the murderer.
You then somehow make the leap that if you keep ME from owning guns, that murderer will be unable to kill anyone. Well, I've got news for you.
1. Your statement that there would be no killing without guns is naive at best. What in the world do you think the Romans did to their enemies? The Spartans? The Trojans? The Babylonians? The Assyrians? The Egyptians? The Crusaders? The Saracens? None of them had guns and all of them killed in huge numbers.
2. Stopping ME from owning my weapons has no effect on some criminal who doesn't even know me. The only reason your precious gun control laws might be able to disarm me is that, honorable fool that I am, I might decide I'd rather obey the law. The killers you claim to be trying to stop are MURDERERS. They don't care if they're breaking some stupid gun-control laws, because they're already committing murder. Do you think car thieves obey the speed limits?
3. Molon labe. Look that one up and get back to me.
If you're interested in discussion, good for you. But you've got to pull your weight around here. We are not lightweights and we don't take our rights lightly.
As for your insults, I really can see how it might seem that way to you, but insulting as it sounds, I believe that your rant above clearly shows that you haven't thought this out very carefully. Read it again, slowly; did you support any of your points, or just throw out insults and rhetoric and then move on to the next assertion?
I have never "caused" anyone to kill anyone. If owning guns could cause anyone to kill anyone else, the streets would be rivers of blood. There are 90 MILLION gun owners in this country--about a third of the population, give or take. If a third of the population were murderers the other two thirds wouldn't last long. But of course they aren't, because owning a mere object can NOT, EVER, under ANY circumstances cause a person to use it for evil. People do evil because they want to and they choose it. No other reason, ever.
What we object to is this:
You observe that some people out there are killing other people. Some of them are using guns to do it.
You then observe that I also own guns and determine, by that one commonality, that I am of equal stature with the murderer.
You then somehow make the leap that if you keep ME from owning guns, that murderer will be unable to kill anyone. Well, I've got news for you.
1. Your statement that there would be no killing without guns is naive at best. What in the world do you think the Romans did to their enemies? The Spartans? The Trojans? The Babylonians? The Assyrians? The Egyptians? The Crusaders? The Saracens? None of them had guns and all of them killed in huge numbers.
2. Stopping ME from owning my weapons has no effect on some criminal who doesn't even know me. The only reason your precious gun control laws might be able to disarm me is that, honorable fool that I am, I might decide I'd rather obey the law. The killers you claim to be trying to stop are MURDERERS. They don't care if they're breaking some stupid gun-control laws, because they're already committing murder. Do you think car thieves obey the speed limits?
3. Molon labe. Look that one up and get back to me.
If you're interested in discussion, good for you. But you've got to pull your weight around here. We are not lightweights and we don't take our rights lightly.
Good day to you, bringthelove.
I must say, that you do have a bit of bravery to strut in here and tell us all your opinion.
However, I must ask you a few questions. Please note that I am simply being inquisitive.
1) Are we all evil? If so, how, and in what way?
2)You advocate destroying those of us who stand for the RKBA, why such extremes?
What good would it do?
Later,
Caliban
I must say, that you do have a bit of bravery to strut in here and tell us all your opinion.
However, I must ask you a few questions. Please note that I am simply being inquisitive.
1) Are we all evil? If so, how, and in what way?
2)You advocate destroying those of us who stand for the RKBA, why such extremes?
What good would it do?
Later,
Caliban
Bringthelove,
(What a contradiction! )
“If guns weren't around then there would be no killing.”
Other way around, Amigo! My wife, Mother, and three daughters use guns to
ensure nobody kills them. Big Bad Criminals are cowards at heart and attack only
those considered vulnerable. But you don’t agree. So please put a sign in your
yard saying you have a gun-free home.
After the truly Bad Guys cut your phone line, your attempt to call 9-1-1 will be entertaining to the intruders.
Let's see how powerful you are when we get all guns banned.
Well, you can make all the gun laws you wish. Look to the Canadians for the result. About 4% compliance.
Oh, and I’m big enough and strong enough to defend myself if I have a bit of
warning.
Can you fight off a 250 lb man who is angry and wants to hurt you? Or do you reckon he'll just stop when you tell him to?
What if there are several intruders?
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 26, 2000).]
(What a contradiction!
)“If guns weren't around then there would be no killing.”
Other way around, Amigo! My wife, Mother, and three daughters use guns to
ensure nobody kills them. Big Bad Criminals are cowards at heart and attack only
those considered vulnerable. But you don’t agree. So please put a sign in your
yard saying you have a gun-free home.
After the truly Bad Guys cut your phone line, your attempt to call 9-1-1 will be entertaining to the intruders.
Let's see how powerful you are when we get all guns banned.
Well, you can make all the gun laws you wish. Look to the Canadians for the result. About 4% compliance.
Oh, and I’m big enough and strong enough to defend myself if I have a bit of
warning.
Can you fight off a 250 lb man who is angry and wants to hurt you? Or do you reckon he'll just stop when you tell him to?
What if there are several intruders?
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 26, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If guns weren't around then there would be no killing.[/quote]
Whoa whoa whoa...wait a minute here. Folks, everyone look at this for a second. I'm having a hard time following this. BringTheLove, you're saying that if we...I mean all of us here...get rid of all our guns that all killing would end? Whoa. Hold the presses. I can't believe this. PayetteJack! Rich!! are you guys reading this! What in the living HELL have we been doing here!
This is UNBELIEVEABLE!! I mean, I must have, literally, REAMS of research and evidence and dialog and essays and commentary and statistics and historical observation and...and...and it's all worthless. All worthless lies foisted on us blind simpletons by EVIL PEOPLE, people obviously much smarter than we. But NOT smarter than BringTheLove! (by golly)
Thank Krishna, this one man, one man has shown all this...this whole Forum, the NRA, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights baloney, all of it: exposed it for the meaningless empty diatribe it is. And to think, it was all so simple, right there in front of us all the time. While we've rattled on like children in a world of adults in this forum here for, what…years? About rights and self-defense and morality and...good lord, I feel dirty all over.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If guns weren't around then there would be no killing.[/quote]
TRUTH. Wisdom from the mount. BringTheLove, you have to get this message out there. Think of all the children you'll save...your name in lights: “BringTheLove, WORLD SAVIOR!” The NRA has to hear about this. And think, they have, what 5 million members in that damn organization? You absolutely MUST call them and show them the truth as you've shown us. Save them, Love. Show them all, man, SHOW THEM ALL! Run! Run to the nearest Godless Killer Gun Owner’s Home, crash through the door and tear the weapons from their hands screaming “DON’T YOU GET IT!!”
I’m sure they’ll come to understand you as we have.
- gabe
PS: Do you, perchance, have a solution to World Hunger while your at it? Drop the Wisdom my brother, I've seen the light!
[This message has been edited by GRD (edited October 27, 2000).]
Whoa whoa whoa...wait a minute here. Folks, everyone look at this for a second. I'm having a hard time following this. BringTheLove, you're saying that if we...I mean all of us here...get rid of all our guns that all killing would end? Whoa. Hold the presses. I can't believe this. PayetteJack! Rich!! are you guys reading this! What in the living HELL have we been doing here!
This is UNBELIEVEABLE!! I mean, I must have, literally, REAMS of research and evidence and dialog and essays and commentary and statistics and historical observation and...and...and it's all worthless. All worthless lies foisted on us blind simpletons by EVIL PEOPLE, people obviously much smarter than we. But NOT smarter than BringTheLove! (by golly)
Thank Krishna, this one man, one man has shown all this...this whole Forum, the NRA, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights baloney, all of it: exposed it for the meaningless empty diatribe it is. And to think, it was all so simple, right there in front of us all the time. While we've rattled on like children in a world of adults in this forum here for, what…years? About rights and self-defense and morality and...good lord, I feel dirty all over.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If guns weren't around then there would be no killing.[/quote]
TRUTH. Wisdom from the mount. BringTheLove, you have to get this message out there. Think of all the children you'll save...your name in lights: “BringTheLove, WORLD SAVIOR!” The NRA has to hear about this. And think, they have, what 5 million members in that damn organization? You absolutely MUST call them and show them the truth as you've shown us. Save them, Love. Show them all, man, SHOW THEM ALL! Run! Run to the nearest Godless Killer Gun Owner’s Home, crash through the door and tear the weapons from their hands screaming “DON’T YOU GET IT!!”
I’m sure they’ll come to understand you as we have.
- gabe
PS: Do you, perchance, have a solution to World Hunger while your at it? Drop the Wisdom my brother, I've seen the light!
[This message has been edited by GRD (edited October 27, 2000).]
abrahamsmith
New member
bringthelove,
I noticed on your profile that you list "law" as your occupation.
In your studies of law, have you perchance stumbled across the Constitution of the United States of America? Just wondering if it has yet been eradicated from the curriculum.
I was also under the impression that Law is a subject which involves logic and rational rhetoric. Apparantly, I was mistaken.
(yes, that was an ad hominem attack. It was not a logically valid argument, but it was pertinent to the discussion at hand.)
I personally am a student of Mathematics and Physics, subjects immersed in pure logic, and I find your comments lacking in any semblance of validity. But, I will give you the benefit of the doubt; perhaps I misunderstand your comments.
Please clarify your position? Do you believe that guns (and their owners) are morally wrong and lead only to evil?
I seem to recall a World War in which many, many Americans used firearms to destroy one of the world's worst evils. Were those weapons evil as well?
In my role as a student of physics, I can certainly explain to you why a firearm works, but that an isolated firearm cannot be discharged in finite time. It takes a person to pull the trigger. That person can be acting for good or evil. Thankfully, the person is usually working for good.
My apologies if I misrepresented your position. In either case, please consider mine thoroughly before discounting it.
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Abe Smith,
President of UW-Madison's
Student Alliance for Firearm Education and Responsibility
I noticed on your profile that you list "law" as your occupation.
In your studies of law, have you perchance stumbled across the Constitution of the United States of America? Just wondering if it has yet been eradicated from the curriculum.
I was also under the impression that Law is a subject which involves logic and rational rhetoric. Apparantly, I was mistaken.
(yes, that was an ad hominem attack. It was not a logically valid argument, but it was pertinent to the discussion at hand.)
I personally am a student of Mathematics and Physics, subjects immersed in pure logic, and I find your comments lacking in any semblance of validity. But, I will give you the benefit of the doubt; perhaps I misunderstand your comments.
Please clarify your position? Do you believe that guns (and their owners) are morally wrong and lead only to evil?
I seem to recall a World War in which many, many Americans used firearms to destroy one of the world's worst evils. Were those weapons evil as well?
In my role as a student of physics, I can certainly explain to you why a firearm works, but that an isolated firearm cannot be discharged in finite time. It takes a person to pull the trigger. That person can be acting for good or evil. Thankfully, the person is usually working for good.
My apologies if I misrepresented your position. In either case, please consider mine thoroughly before discounting it.
------------------
Abe Smith,
President of UW-Madison's
Student Alliance for Firearm Education and Responsibility
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bringthelove:
A tool is a helpful thing. All a gun is a tool of destructionn and it'd be helpful to destroy all you idiots. All you do is insult and demean. You have no facts to back up anything.
[/quote]
Danger Will Robinson! There is a troll in our midst!
A tool is a helpful thing. All a gun is a tool of destructionn and it'd be helpful to destroy all you idiots. All you do is insult and demean. You have no facts to back up anything.
[/quote]
Danger Will Robinson! There is a troll in our midst!
HI! Look everyone, you cannot argue with someone like this. I deal with a person like this several times a week. My best friends wife is like this, mind you I love her like a sister(and him as my brother) and it really hurts me that she is like this. She would have all guns magically disappear from the earth and thinks that would make everyone live in happiness and harmony forever.
The term I now use, after finding it in another board's forum is "blissninny".
Blissninny(from the Rainbow Gathering website): A person at a Rainbow Gathering who does not contribute much work; overly spiritual and out of touch with the physical realities and demands of the environment. (Derogatory).
(my definition) That is someone that would have mankind change its basic nature and live in a world where everyone is happy and well fed, without want or need forever and ever. In short, a delusional personality.
Yea I wish it were true as well(as I am sure all you do too) but I know better(as do you), we ain't there yet and a police state is in the opposite direction.(Its personal responsibility...stupid)
Don't waste time on this type...they most likely will never understand what the attraction is to self-defense or even the simple joy of punching holes in paper at long range. Perhaps they will change after a traumatic personal experience...I wish them no ill will but a good scare would maybe do them good. I once, during an argument over guns, put to her the scenario of me and her husband(We lived together at one time) held by a badguy ready to kill us, with her in arms reach of my loaded handgun, all she had to do was grab it, point and pull the trigger to save us all and she said she wouldn't do it. I told her then she was as dead to me as we would be and if I was in the same position to save her I now would not, I regret saying that(greatly) and would execute a FNG(Futile Noble Gesture) to save her given the chance(make that forced into the position, as I said I consider them family). I have made small advances in her thinking in the last few years, and more in the last six months as I have been reading the forums on this board and am hoping some of what I an saying is reaching her. The last argument I use was asking why she wanted to be a victim instead of defending herself, at least it made her pause for a bit without reply. Her husband has developed a love of skeet shooting, as her aunt and uncle ran a range nearby but gave it up about a year ago. I still ask if she wants to go with me to the range about ever other week and she declines. Her husband has found a new job that makes him travel for a week every other month or so and being alone may help swing her over. I can but hope.
Yea I hope they are just a TROLL.
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Shoot early, shoot often...
and
Don't Vote for ****ing Lawyers!
[This message has been edited by LongArms (edited October 27, 2000).]
The term I now use, after finding it in another board's forum is "blissninny".
Blissninny(from the Rainbow Gathering website): A person at a Rainbow Gathering who does not contribute much work; overly spiritual and out of touch with the physical realities and demands of the environment. (Derogatory).
(my definition) That is someone that would have mankind change its basic nature and live in a world where everyone is happy and well fed, without want or need forever and ever. In short, a delusional personality.
Yea I wish it were true as well(as I am sure all you do too) but I know better(as do you), we ain't there yet and a police state is in the opposite direction.(Its personal responsibility...stupid)
Don't waste time on this type...they most likely will never understand what the attraction is to self-defense or even the simple joy of punching holes in paper at long range. Perhaps they will change after a traumatic personal experience...I wish them no ill will but a good scare would maybe do them good. I once, during an argument over guns, put to her the scenario of me and her husband(We lived together at one time) held by a badguy ready to kill us, with her in arms reach of my loaded handgun, all she had to do was grab it, point and pull the trigger to save us all and she said she wouldn't do it. I told her then she was as dead to me as we would be and if I was in the same position to save her I now would not, I regret saying that(greatly) and would execute a FNG(Futile Noble Gesture) to save her given the chance(make that forced into the position, as I said I consider them family). I have made small advances in her thinking in the last few years, and more in the last six months as I have been reading the forums on this board and am hoping some of what I an saying is reaching her. The last argument I use was asking why she wanted to be a victim instead of defending herself, at least it made her pause for a bit without reply. Her husband has developed a love of skeet shooting, as her aunt and uncle ran a range nearby but gave it up about a year ago. I still ask if she wants to go with me to the range about ever other week and she declines. Her husband has found a new job that makes him travel for a week every other month or so and being alone may help swing her over. I can but hope.
Yea I hope they are just a TROLL.
------------------
Shoot early, shoot often...
and
Don't Vote for ****ing Lawyers!
[This message has been edited by LongArms (edited October 27, 2000).]
The other night an acquaintance's girlfriend was giving me grief for owning guns, and being into the shooting sports.
Gave me the whole "guns kill" and all that line... So I asked her "hey, if I go home, and pick up a gun, and bring it back here and put it in your hand, are you going to kill someone with it?" The answer was "no." I then told her that she was obviously a responsible person, such as myself, and I didn't see anything wrong with her owning firearms, along with the millions of other legit owners. That got her thinking a little...
The threat of deadly force is a powerful motivator for criminals to seek other lines of work or pleasure. In the FBI NIBRS (or whatever the initials are...) study posted at their web site, that stats say that the vast majority of rapists use nothing more than their fists and feet to control their victims. Which means that if their victim is armed, we've got a rapist with problems.
Whose side are you on? The rapist or the woman?
Gave me the whole "guns kill" and all that line... So I asked her "hey, if I go home, and pick up a gun, and bring it back here and put it in your hand, are you going to kill someone with it?" The answer was "no." I then told her that she was obviously a responsible person, such as myself, and I didn't see anything wrong with her owning firearms, along with the millions of other legit owners. That got her thinking a little...
The threat of deadly force is a powerful motivator for criminals to seek other lines of work or pleasure. In the FBI NIBRS (or whatever the initials are...) study posted at their web site, that stats say that the vast majority of rapists use nothing more than their fists and feet to control their victims. Which means that if their victim is armed, we've got a rapist with problems.
Whose side are you on? The rapist or the woman?
- Status