Distances involved in shooting instances by LAPD, etc.

At a seminar on risk, the speaker said: It is as rare as being hit by lightning or being in a jet line crash.

I've been hit by lightning. The friend next to me survived a DC-8 crash in the woods that killed the front of plane.

We raised our hands and laughed.
 
Exactly my point.

If you are involved in a deadly force encounter you are already having a BAD day. If you are not prepared for the circumstances at hand.... It just got alot worse.

Thats what drives me crazy about the folks that go thru the trouble of getting permitted to CCW, supposedly to be able to defend themselves and loved ones and then carry some itty bitty hard to shoot, ballistically challenged gun. Saying "well i'll never need it anyway"

Ohhhh well. I'll carry what im comfortable with.. They can carry what they are comfortable with. I just hope that lightning doesn't strike them and they come up short
 
Interesting the short range, few shots mantra is being used against. Over on THR, there is a thread on a California judge ruling against higher capacity magazines. The judge cites the NRA stat of about 3 shots fired. The argument would be similar to ban ARs as you don't need a distance weapon with 30 rounds.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745975&page=2

So all the 'it's the average' and thus that is what will always happen (take Statistics :mad:) have contributed to an argument which can bite the gun world on the rear end. We say only nuts and paranoids would worry about more than 3 shots and 3 yards. So why should a judge support the right to have more? See the point?
 
We say only nuts and paranoids would worry about more than 3 shots and 3 yards. So why should a judge support the right to have more? See the point?
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But, but, but... It's not the same thing at all!

We're saying that as post-rationalization for a decision we've already made to carry some little-bitty, super-light gun that will practically disappear in our pocket--he's trying to infringe on our rights! :D
 
It stands to reason that cop shootings will average out at longer distances then civilian shootings, because for one thing it's probably the goal of the bad guy to get away, so he will probably be opening the distance instead of closing the distance, and also I think we can safely assume that it's very rare, for a bad guy to attempt to rob a cop, and to rob someone, it's usually necessary to close the distance. Of course a lot of cop shootings are close anyway, because the officer has closed the distance, still the averages would be longer.

Civilian shootings would average much closer in general, because most of the time the perpetrator will close the distance at first, unless met with armed resistance, otherwise a gunfight will probably not happen in the first place. It's true that a lot of residential and business shootings will happen after someone goes and gets their gun from maybe even another room, etc. and that will involve all sorts of firearms, both long and short.

On the street, most shootings involving a robbery victim are probably at just beyond arms length, and the victim is already behind the curve, by the time the shooting starts, with the dirtbag already at close range, with gun or knife in hand, if not already actually clubbing or grappling the victim. In this case, I see the victim needing immediate access to a short barreled foolproof handgun, and it probably doesn't have to be that accurate but accuracy never hurts. IMHO a 38 snub in a strong side holster is just about perfect in this case, but that's just my opinion, and I carry all sorts of handguns as a civilian depending on wardrobe, my activities planned for the day, etc.
 
"Most shootings" - that the center of the argument. The J frame works well for the close up single mugger be gone scenario.

Move away from that towards a gang of folks (seen it) or some horror like Mumbai, VT, etc. then it isn't optimal.

The user decides where they want to make the cut in the risk profile.

I think that a semi in 9mm or greater and an extra mag or two probably is reasonably high in the risk distribution to cover most. Not to say that I won't just wander around with a J and speed loader if it is the dress convenient option.

A BUG with that moves me from the .05 level cut to the .01 level cut of risk - that's a stat joke. :D
 
Again.. EXACTLY this^^^^^

If i happen to be unfortunately present in say, a mass/active shooter event i dont want to have to protect my family with just a J frame and no reload

I'll stick with my Glock and a spare mag to keep the "wolves" away until a better armed response can get there

Dont tell me that as a CCW holder you wont have to deal with mtpl assailants. Your crystal ball isnt that good. Better to have and not need, then need and not have.
 
It stands to reason that cop shootings will average out at longer distances then civilian shootings, because for one thing it's probably the goal of the bad guy to get away, so he will probably be opening the distance instead of closing the distance, and also I think we can safely assume that it's very rare, for a bad guy to attempt to rob a cop, and to rob someone, it's usually necessary to close the distance. Of course a lot of cop shootings are close anyway, because the officer has closed the distance, still the averages would be longer.
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That is a flawed assumption. The BG may not want to rob the cop, he wants to kill the cop, big difference.
 
If any of you have heard of Rangemaster, in Memphis Tenn., and Tom Givens you know his students have now been in over 60 shootings.

Fair percentage of them had multiple opponents.

The only one to fail at defending themselves successfully was one who didn't bring his gun.

Yes I really like my J frame .38s and .357s, but unless you are a real good and fast shot it is wise to have something with a few more BBs.

Deaf
 
I agree with everyone, in that more shots are better, but the first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun, and while the 5 or six shot snub might be short on BB's, it's nearly foolproof, and lightening fast if carried right. When I carry a snub I usually carry another small back up gun, and one or two knives.

Sure, I would rather always have a bigger gun, but sometimes it's just not that practical to pack a bigger gun. The farther away from home, the bigger the gun I am willing to conceal.

I did experience an eye opener today, however. Just a wake up call as to how fast things can develop. While walking through a parking lot with my wife, I was suddenly confronted by two roughly dressed men, asking for directions to a local bank, that seemly came out of nowhere. My wife and I were spread out a little, they were spread out a little. I was instantly on red alert but nothing came of it. Still yet I am not sure it there original motive was legit, and they could have probably jumped me.

I was carrying a 5 shot Smith 442 snub in a an inside vest pocket of my Carhart vest, and a North American 22 mag 5 shot 22 mag on the opposite side pocket. Also, a Benchmade lock blade folder clipped on one front pants pocket, and a 6.5 inch Puma Bowie knife in a custom made inside the pants scabbard on my weak side, reverse Calvary draw.

Because of my activities today, I felt that I could not carry or didnot want to carry a bigger gun, however, I do train to fight with the guns I carry, so I really didn't feel too undergunned but I guess I would have been at a disadvantage, if they had had a gun and had planned a better trap, and this time I was not carrying my snub in the fastest location, but at least I did have several weapons that could have been brought into play.

What bothered me the most was the fact that I had let the encounter develop without any warning hardly at all. If they had chosen to they could have been on me before I could have hardly reacted, which is one reason I like to have several weapons accessible by either hand, I might not come out unscathed but they would have more then likely gotten snake bit by something.
 
When I shot IPSC, early 80s, the pistols used? Mostly Colt 45, 1911.

The magazines that came with the guns? On average? Not good.

Since moving to Florida, from Canada, and now being able to CCW with a pistol of my choice. I have carried a Glock 19, with a spare G17 magazine.

Eleven years. Same set up. As the majority of problems I have observed with Pistols, are magazine related IMHO. I will go on record as stating, Glock magazines are the best in the world, and I have never had a malfunction with one of them. Mind you I am not shy about rotating new ones into the mix.
Obtained my first Glock pistol, G17 in 1984.

As in my spare G17 magazine, worn next to my Surefire light on the left side, it is bran new. Thank you Son.

So forget capacity, barrel length, sights! If what you carry goes down! Because of magazine problems, scrap your defensive equipment, get one that works all the time!

The 9mm is the most used pistol caliber in the world, that suits me just fine.
And the fact that 16 of them are ready to go, on the belt, in the same place, always, gives me that nice feeling that it will work if required.

Having a spare 17 cartridges ready on the other side? Insurance.
 
Of course it's an "unintentional discharge" when the police do it lol...


Imo, the distances for police don't really correlate well to a self-defense distance for the average citizen. Police have their rules on how they set themselves up in preparation of shootings. These shootings are when a burglar breaks into a home and gets shot in the hallway or when a murderer tries to take your life in a parking garage. The shooting situations are vastly different.
 
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