Difference between 8mm Mauser ammo
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FrankenMauser
New member
That's definitely a big deal.
I'll never be able to test the 6,000 meter setting on my Spanish Mauser, or the 2,000 meter (yard?) setting on my Yugo 1924.
My life will be empty and worthless.
Or, I could just do what I already do, and load my own...
I think if you're looking for ample choices of full power commercial ammo, you'd probably be better off shooting a more contemporary round/rifle. Otherwise, reloading or jumping through hoops for expensive ammo is the reality we must face. Same thing I have to deal with with my 35 Remington rifles.
Franken- I collect WWI military rifles. Having the ammunition 'match' the sight settings IS a big deal to me. Evaluating the rifles is rather sketchy otherwise.
So I cheat. I reload as close as I can to the original weights and velocities.
F'rinstance, I have a Model 1888 Commission Rifle. Originally chambered for M1888 8x57mm Commission Rifle (or some thing). The original loading was a 226 (more or less; it was specified 14.8 grams and comes out goofy in grains) grain bullet with nearly straight sides and a very round nose. FMJ, of course. Muzzle velocity was a snappy 2,093 fps. That was the "J Patrone" (cartridge) and had a .318" bullet.
Bullets are impossible to find for this round to do any 'replication'. However, in 1905 the German Empire government finally figured out the superiority of smokeless powder and changed over to the same case (8x57mm) but with a bullet of 154 grains (9.9 gram) pointy (spitzer) bullet, also FMJ, at the velocity of 2880 fps (from a roughly 30 inch barrel). This bullet was made with a bullet diameter of .323" inch. By this time, the German Empire was using the '98 Mauser of some fame; but the M1888 was still used by second line troops and such. So the M1888's were rechambered to allow the 'new' loading to fit (reaming out the neck of the chamber to allow the new loading to fit) and the 'updated' rifles marked with an "S". They used the same ammo as the '98s.
Between the world wars this loading was changed again to a 196 grain bullet to accommodate long range machine gun fire. The NAZI government (by this time) decided to use the same ammo for all rifles to make supply simpler. This is after my time of interest. But it does explain the bullet weight in current offerings.
By the way, there is no documentary evidence of the bore diameter being changed in the M1888 rifles. Makers since then have made sporting rifles in both calibers.
Oh. The excessive range markings on the early sights was for volley fire, not individual shooters.
So I cheat. I reload as close as I can to the original weights and velocities.
F'rinstance, I have a Model 1888 Commission Rifle. Originally chambered for M1888 8x57mm Commission Rifle (or some thing). The original loading was a 226 (more or less; it was specified 14.8 grams and comes out goofy in grains) grain bullet with nearly straight sides and a very round nose. FMJ, of course. Muzzle velocity was a snappy 2,093 fps. That was the "J Patrone" (cartridge) and had a .318" bullet.
Bullets are impossible to find for this round to do any 'replication'. However, in 1905 the German Empire government finally figured out the superiority of smokeless powder and changed over to the same case (8x57mm) but with a bullet of 154 grains (9.9 gram) pointy (spitzer) bullet, also FMJ, at the velocity of 2880 fps (from a roughly 30 inch barrel). This bullet was made with a bullet diameter of .323" inch. By this time, the German Empire was using the '98 Mauser of some fame; but the M1888 was still used by second line troops and such. So the M1888's were rechambered to allow the 'new' loading to fit (reaming out the neck of the chamber to allow the new loading to fit) and the 'updated' rifles marked with an "S". They used the same ammo as the '98s.
Between the world wars this loading was changed again to a 196 grain bullet to accommodate long range machine gun fire. The NAZI government (by this time) decided to use the same ammo for all rifles to make supply simpler. This is after my time of interest. But it does explain the bullet weight in current offerings.
By the way, there is no documentary evidence of the bore diameter being changed in the M1888 rifles. Makers since then have made sporting rifles in both calibers.
Oh. The excessive range markings on the early sights was for volley fire, not individual shooters.
FrankenMauser
New member
You keep sweating it.
I'll keep doing what I do.
On Monday, I was smacking steel at 275, 320, and 400 yards with the 'battle' setting (300 meters) on one of my 1916 Spanish Mausers and "anemic" 7x57mm PPU 139 gr ammo.
The "underpowered" ammo was such a big deal that we had to hold an entire 12 INCHES high to hit the 400 yard gong.
The humanity!!...
I buy milsurp rifles because of my interest in historical weapons.
I didn’t buy a Yugoslav refurb kar98k in like new condition to shoot saami-neutered commercial ammo, regardless of whether of not that underpowered ammo shoots “OK”.
The only commercial 8mm ammo which meets full power spec is S&B.
I didn’t buy a Yugoslav refurb kar98k in like new condition to shoot saami-neutered commercial ammo, regardless of whether of not that underpowered ammo shoots “OK”.
The only commercial 8mm ammo which meets full power spec is S&B.
And your 7mm Mauser is relevant to 8X57 how exactly?
We are not talking about 7X57, we are talking about 8X57. There is not a huge difference between SAMMI and CIP specs for 7mm Mauser ammo. Max C.I.P. ~56Kpsi, SAAMI ~51K psi) Prvi Partisan lists both 7mm Mauser and 7X57 on their web site, assumingly for US and other markets, but if you look the specifications are the same for both, (139gr SP @ 810 M/S or 173gr @ 750 M/S).
CIP specs for both are the same, because the rounds are contemporaries made to shoot in the same rifles.
There is a huge difference in SAMMI vs CIP specs for 8mm Mauser, as I mentioned above.
In the Prvi ammo the US Spec stuff is ~250 FPS slower with the same bullet.me said:
So yes, underpowered.
GarandTd said:
Hornady and Nosler seem to be the only US folks making "real" 8x57 ammo, Hornady has two options, a 195 hunting bullet and a 196 gr match, both @ 2500 FPS, which is pretty close to the 1933 s.S. Patrone military load.
Nosler has a 200gr AccuBond or Partition at 2475 fps, and a 180gr Ballistic tip at 2600 FPS, but they are really proud of them, at about $2.50 per round.
Pathfinder45
New member
Zip, excellence is seldom, if ever, cheap. I think that the Winchester ammo that you found lacking is actually far better than you give it credit for. It has real hunting bullets rather than the useless-to-me, FMJ military bullets. Plus, it has excellent reviews.
It seems that you are in a dilemma that only reloading can fix. But you don't want to reload and can't convince the ammo factories to abundantly supply what you want at an artificially low price. Good luck with that.
It seems that you are in a dilemma that only reloading can fix. But you don't want to reload and can't convince the ammo factories to abundantly supply what you want at an artificially low price. Good luck with that.
@pathfinder
I have never used Winchester 8mm so I don't know how it would be lacking? Not sure where you got that from. I have the really slow PPU as stated in my other post. I have no issue with that ammo either but would prefer some strong loads. I'm sure it will kill deer just fine.
As far as the rest of your statement I can't argue that. It would be nice if one didn't have to reload to get the performance you want but oh well. One can wish.
I have never used Winchester 8mm so I don't know how it would be lacking? Not sure where you got that from. I have the really slow PPU as stated in my other post. I have no issue with that ammo either but would prefer some strong loads. I'm sure it will kill deer just fine.
As far as the rest of your statement I can't argue that. It would be nice if one didn't have to reload to get the performance you want but oh well. One can wish.
@Hawg
My Yugo 48A has one of the strongest receivers made for the 8mm. It should be able to handle any load I put in it. She does have a pretty good kick to her with the 23.5" barrel but recoil has never bothered me. I can shoot any rifle as long as it doesn't actually dig in and hurt the shoulder. Recoil pads fix those issues.
My Yugo 48A has one of the strongest receivers made for the 8mm. It should be able to handle any load I put in it. She does have a pretty good kick to her with the 23.5" barrel but recoil has never bothered me. I can shoot any rifle as long as it doesn't actually dig in and hurt the shoulder. Recoil pads fix those issues.
My very first centerfire rifle was a Czech Brno 98k. Dad got it for my birthday in 1963.
I shot my first deer with it about a month later using a RP 170 gr Core Lokt with open sights. DRT...did not move at all.
Shot a few more over the next couple of years still with iron sights.
After I scoped it a couple of years after that, the longest shot I have made on whitetail deer (347 yds stepped off) was made with a 150 gr Speer HotCor.
The old girl will give me 2" groups at 200 yds.
I still shot her once in a while just to keep her in shape.
Forgot to mention that Dad bought her at Monkey Wards for $14.95.
I shot my first deer with it about a month later using a RP 170 gr Core Lokt with open sights. DRT...did not move at all.
Shot a few more over the next couple of years still with iron sights.
After I scoped it a couple of years after that, the longest shot I have made on whitetail deer (347 yds stepped off) was made with a 150 gr Speer HotCor.
The old girl will give me 2" groups at 200 yds.
I still shot her once in a while just to keep her in shape.
Forgot to mention that Dad bought her at Monkey Wards for $14.95.
Pathfinder45
New member
Zip, the Winchester ammo is among the milder loads that you referred to generically, but not specifically. I just used them as an example of a brand I would buy if it was on sale and I needed brass. I also have had excellent results with Federal brass. Reloading is not for everyone...but for me it is essential. It provides me with high quality, even premium grade ammo without concern for costs. Plus, I seem to be utterly immune to market shortages. I have been hearing that the days of cheap surplus ammo are gone or at least numbered, but I wouldn't know, having never needed any. I sincerely wish you luck in your ammo quest. Maybe frequent the gunshows; I've had a lot of lucky encounters there.
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