Did I do something wrong? Range question

The range was Backwoods Trap and Skeet off of Hwy 380 in Little Elm. I agree with the arguing with idiots advice. That is why as I stated I recognized that attempting to challenge him would be a waste of time. However, as myself and others have pointed out, the fact is: Whether or not it is a cease fire or a hot range you would still be handling a firearm with other shooters directly in front of you in order to move your rifle from a vehicle to the stand. During a cease fire the other shooters will be 100yds away but during a hot range you would be handling a rifle 3-5 yards behind them. As far as crossing the line, it was completely legitimate to do so because you would not be able to hang a target downrange without crossing the line. The only infraction that I can see question with was that I placed a box of ammunition on the shooting bench that I wanted (this can be done simply by dropping the box on the bench as you walk past it to proceed downrange and hang a target). There was no weapon on the bench and all I did was move my rifle approx. 5-10ft. from the cab of my truck to a stand designed to securely hold rifles with muzzle pointing up well behind the line. This action is no less dangerous or questionable during a hot range than a cease fire for the reasons stated above. And unless I can throw a bullet by hand at 2000+fps I don't see the danger in placing a box of ammunition separate from a rifle on a bench.
 
2 things

Guys 2 things

1. The rules are the rules, logical or not, geared to the lowest common denominator or not, someone has to make them and so it goes, when you have to sit at the top and run heard on a group of people doing something where there is major potental for very bad goof ups you get to decide such things and the rest of us have to play along or take our toys elsewhere, there is no debate, especally not on the range, if some rule seems particuarly dumb to you I would suggest sending a calm and well written letter to the manager, club executive board or whoever makes the rules, that's the proper arena for such debate.

2. That having been said, anyone who treats people in the manner described is a jerk and moreover is exactly what the shooting sports DO NOT need. I have friends ask me on an almost weekly basis if they can tag along to shoot because they are afraid to go to a range on their own for the very reason of either embarassing themselves or running afoul of someone such as you describe. The local public range here has the most friendly and helpfull RO's (all volunteer I might add) I have ever met and I hope that their professonalism goes a long way towards supporting and encouriging many shooters.
 
RSQVET,

I couldn't agree more. If the RO had spent more time explaining the situation and less time yelling and brow beating, safety would have been enhanced because there would have been a meeting of the minds as to what was expected in the future.
 
I think the RO was out of line in the way he treated you, but not out of line in making sure you understand the rules. Yes, he was assinine about it, but he did his job. I have been downrange and have looked back to see people monkeying with guns. I have a friend who was downrange when a rifle was fired. Events like that can make you appreciate the RO who is focusing on his job instead of jaw jacking with his buddies.

FWIW, are cars always parked that close to the line? Every range I have ever been to has had a buffer zone of at least 30 yards between the line and parked cars. That in itself can create this problem.
 
Maybe the RO was/is a DI. I've never been in the military, but suspect that DI's yell like they do for a few reasons.

If they yell, others hear also and the don't haver to repeat themselves 30 times a day.

Its easier to make a point to a lot of people at once even if only speaking to one individual by yelling.

People pay closer attention to someone who is yelling, vs someone who is not.

It makes it clear that he's doing his job and is serious.

?? Maybe. People don't seem to get mad at the DI for yelling, they realize he's just doing his job, and is sort of responsible for quite a few people at once.
 
I have only heard of the RO nazis. I go to a range were they are laid back about that kind of stuff. My advice is find a range were you like the level of the RO's concern about this stuff and stick with that one.
 
It was always my understanding that you never touch your weapon during a cease fire. Loading a magazine is ok, as long as your not touching your weapon.
 
Of course it is safe to carry an unloaded gun with the action obviously open and pointed in a safe direction. If he can't discern that, then he should be replaced by an expert.

I wonder if this range nazi is against concealed carry.

If it is too unsafe to carry an unloaded weapon out from the car to the range, then it is WAY too unsafe to carry a concealed weapon loaded in public where people are in front of you, in back of you, walking towards you, behind places you can't see, etc.
 
I would have said yes sir, sorry sir and thats it.
Sorry but he has to deal with a whole lot of imcompotent aholes every day.
I shoot every other weekend at my local range and I'm apalled by how careless and stupid people get. And then they get offened and angry when the RO catches them and tells em. Theres always some knuckle head that leaves a loaded gun on the table. The ROs pull the slide or bolt back and oops! Out pops a live round.

You stand here saying he was too tough you. Yet if the guy next to you dropped his "unloaded" rifle while trying to set it on the rack and it fired sending a 30-06 in your leg you you be the hopping mad on you good leg and suing him and the shooting range because the RO was negligent and incompetent and didnt do his job! Remember these are firearms not toys. They will kill. People seem to forget them sometime.
 
The Range man was out of line. I'm a member of a range and have never heard of such behavior. We police ourselves when on the range as to when to cease fire and hang targets. The only time there is a range officer is when we have touraments. I understand not messing with the guns at the bench, but just putting the gun on the rack behind the line? The range man was out of line.
 
I'll bet the RO was more right than wrong...

I've been an RO at 3 different ranges over the 30 years. Yes, you did something wrong, you crossed the line when the range was cold. No excuses are acceptable, especially from someone claiming to understand and practice proper "house rules".

The RO you dealt with was an ass from your point of view, (and all the sheep who've never heard a gun go off amongst a crowd on a cold line unintentionally will back you), but that doesn't excuse your behaviour either. My bet is the RO missed seeing you rack your rifle behind the line and only saw you place the ammo on the table. That set of circumstances, coupled with the fact that you didn't cop to handling *something* on the table, escalated the entire incident into an 'argument'. Your description says the RO was "some distance away" when he hollered at you while you were at the table. (How 'action-opened' guns are handled from vehicle-to-rack during a cease-fire is a variable according to "house rules". At two of the ranges I RO'd, handling *any* iron was taboo during the cold period; at the 3rd range, the only entrance to the line funneled past the RO's best vantage point, and he could stop all incoming folks with a quick, "please wait here until" the line turned hot.)

If the shooting line is long, there's no way to see everything on the tables down the line; it's like standing obliquely next to a cyclone fence and trying to look through it; thick glasses or not (and you can belittle his eyesight as much as you please) he saw you cross the line, and made the worst assumption possible, which as an RO is the best assumption to make, at any distance. I thought he handled it well, waiting until the line was hot, to speak to you "privately", until you 'mutually' got out of hand. If my description of his impressions are correct, I lay no fault *whatsoever* on the RO. You better believe, I'd raise my voice and threaten to drop kick *anyone* out the door immediately if they stand and argue their safety conduct was proper, if their reason doesn't jibe with what I think I saw ("I was never handling a weapon with people downrange") --all you had to do was state that you'd racked your rifle and brainfarted your way to the table with ammo only, and I'm sure the whole situation would have diffused itself.

I'm glad not to have to screw around anymore with the obstinant idiots and self-righteous experts handling guns among strangers and neophytes. There's enough of them out there that a whole weekend didn't go by when we'd have to listen to "attitude" while performing this volunteer duty of keeping an assemblage of randomly gathered experts and neophytes safe during every minute of their (sub)conscious range use.

I'm sooo glad I don't have to use supervised ranges.
Click to expand...

I shoot on my own property now, and the unknown quantity of a stranger with a gun on the firing line doesn't even enter into my shooting scenarios anymore. God is good.
 
RCP:

Here's the deal: guns can only go off when there are three things: 1) guns, 2) ammo, and 3) someone messing with them. That particular rule is stop people from messing with guns while people are downrange. People were downrange and you were moving a gun around. You broke their rule, end of story. So fess up and take it like a man.

I certainly understand why the range officer lost his patience with you when you started to argue with him. The rule says no handling of guns while people were downrange -- 1) there were people downrange and 2) you were handling a gun. He told you what you did wrong, but you didn't accept it. It's no surprise to me that he raised his voice.

Different clubs have different rules. You may or may not agree with the rule at that club about not handling guns when people are downrange. But the fact is, that is their rule. It doesn't matter that your gun was unloaded when you took it from the truck. The guns benched on the tables or in the rack were unloaded as well, weren't they? Accidental discharges almost always happen with guns that people thought were unloaded. Which is exactly why many clubs have this rule.

As long as no one handles a gun while people are downrange, then there is very little chance of a gun going off. In fact, at many clubs not only can you not handle a gun while people are downrange, but you also must step back behind a yellow line, 5+ feet from the benches. This type of rule makes it much, much easier for a single range officer to supervise a large range.

Next time have your rifle in a case. Don't uncase it until you've asked the range officer if you can bring a rifle onto the line.

You may not like it and you may not agree with it. However, that is their rule and you broke it -- obey it or find a different club.

M1911
 
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