Did I do something wrong? Range question

I took a picture of the stand and the benches today (sorry for the poor quality this was with my cell phone). As you can see the racks which are fashioned to hold the rifles pointing upward are well behind the red line. Also if he was upset that I had placed my ammo on the bench during the cease fire then fine tell me not to do that again and I would have apologized. I just don't feel that placing the rifle in the rack was wrong during a cease fire.



RangePhoto.jpg
 
The Red Line

RCP The poor picture is good enough for this reply, I think?

It all depends on the posted rules, any range I have belonged to, UK, Australia, Canada, the US of A, state "You may not approach the bench till the RO says you can do so" more or less, and Rifle Ranges allow no handling!! Of firearms, whilst people are down range, and to add insult to injury, why the RO was himself down range beats me! He is supposed to enforce rules pertaining to bench and rack safety, by being there.

But the main point would be the written rules.

BIG Sign

You may not cross the red line while people are ahead of the benches.

No handling of firearms during a cease fire, except to deliver them cased to the rack area.

Now I am old, 69! But do not wear glasses, except safety glasses, you too will become old, we hope, and people who enforce safety rules will help you to achieve that exalted position, old that is.

Safe Shooting, it is a great sport.
 
I am not going to comment on theincident in particular...there always seems to be more to the story...not a slam...but we only have your perceptions here.

But......this goes a LONG way toward reminding me why I shy away from formal ranges.

Are you allowed to park your vehicle with an actual weapon in it? :D

Because I would not feel any more "safe" with you behind me with your weapon just because the range was "hot"
 
If a rule infraction occured, so be it and address it. I see no problem with enforcing the rules. Most rule infractions are due to simple mistakes by those who are not very experienced in the use of a range such as this. Most are not just jerks who refuse to play by the rules. That said, deadly accidents can be caused by unintentional mistakes. That is why there is a need for range officers and rules. However, there is no excuse for the way this range officer acted. You can be tough as nails, but be a gentleman about it. The officer should have come to the offender and explained the situation to him. 99% of the time, that would take care of the problem. Obviously, there was not a meeting of the minds in this situation, because the offender still is not clear what he did wrong or what is expected of him in the future. If after an adult conversation about the matter, the offender blows him off or shows his rear end about it, show him the highway. And another thing that came to mind. It seems pretty stupid to me to go up to a complete stranger who has with him a deadly weapon; jump on him, get up in his face, and try to embarass and publicly humiliate him. The odds are if this guy makes this type of behavior a common practice, he will eventually create another type of unsafe situation at the range.
 
the only handling I did was to remove my rifle from the truck and place it in the rack.
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I simply moved it from the truck to the racks which are far behind the firing line.
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Doesn't look that far from the photo. Looks like about 10 feet.
The RM was wrong to yell at you, but at any range, he's there for safety and must be obeyed, even if he's over the top.
You handled your weapon when you shouldn't have.
Humbly accept it, apologise, and don't do it again...
 
i'm not trying to flame you, or insult you, i want to know why you would feel justified in assaulting someone who yells at you.
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spacemanspiff,
In your question to Publius's post, it depends on case law of the state. Although I would think it improper or imoral to do this, you have a right to protect your space with force if necessary. When I was a constuction worker, we were instructed by someone who was instructed by a lawyer (second hand info IOW) that if you got in someones face and yelled at them, then you had a legal right to protect yourself. So, they told us that if we had to yell at someone, step back 3 ft and do it. :eek: Some states may (or may not?) say that you may not defend yourself by punching them until they touch you. And when I say touch, it could be a simple tap of the finger on your chest. But, having said that, I would not do what Publius said and I would take the abuse or yell back in kind, instead of punching him. Especially if it was possible I was wrong and may have violated the range rules, I woud have not answered back and played by his rules just to avoid further conflict. But that is just me and RCPractitioner may have had another reason to answer back to this rude dude.
 
Ya just can't go around punching people when they piss you off.

I don't care what you say. :cool:

And... what if they carry?
 
Remember back in the olden days when you could reasonably expect people to be competant with guns & safety? I don't, but hear it used to be like that. :D

I'da given the guy a yes sir sorry sir to convey that you understood and alleviate his potential fear of your safety practices and maybe even feed his ego a bit at the same time. The last thing you want is to be on the wrong side of the RO.

I'm sooo glad I don't have to use supervised ranges.
 
There is a simple reason I have never shot at a range, and that is why.

Where I live, I can do .22's in my pit, but thats it anymore(to many people up here). So, we just drive out about HALF the distance to teh nearest range to a spot where the DNR says we can shoot and we do it.
 
You handled a weapon while people were downrange. Not good - they should be able to look back and see no one handling weapons. Had the rifle been in a case, it might have been a different story.

You crossed a line you weren't supposed to cross. Not good - people downrange should be able to see that everyone is back from the benches where the weapons are.

Discussions about tone of voice don't really alter the above.
 
If that's the rules of the range, then that's the rules of the range. The R.O. yelled at someone for breaking a safety rule. So be it.

But I still have to wonder: Why is it safe for someone to handle a gun behind you and put it in the rack when the range is hot? Seriously, if someone can explain this to me, please do.
 
But I still have to wonder: Why is it safe for someone to handle a gun behind you and put it in the rack when the range is hot? Seriously, if someone can explain this to me, please do.
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Thank you, this is part of the reason I posted the pic
 
I worked as a Range Official for 12 years and here is the deal.

No handling means NONE...zero, when the line is safe. In your situation I think the RO's should have had you wait until all other folks were back from down range, the range was cleared and then let you move up to the firing point and ground your weapon. Then you wouldn't have been humiliated and the whole mess could have been avoided.
 
Seems to my way of thinking that if you aren't in front of the line, you aren't on the range. I also can't think of any range I've ever been on where it was okay to move weapons around behind the line when the range was hot. In my mind, when a range is hot, all weapons are treated as loaded...it's only when a range is cold that they can be moved. Maybe he was just antsy because folks were down range servicing targets at the time?
 
IZHUMINTER,

On the range includes the firing line and the ready line which is usually 6-8' behind the firing line. This is the way military firing lines are run, but of course we don't have the issue of folks bringing weapons onto the range after we have started firing. They are all placed on the firing points at the same time and removed at the same time after being cleared by the RO's.

Additionally, shooters should only be allowed forward of the firing line after all weapons have been verified clear by the RO's and the line declared safe.

I don't want anyone behind me at the firing line handling a weapon while I'm down range in front of the firing line.
 
Striker1

Sorry...my post should have read "the red line." I for damn sure wouldn't want anyone wandering up to the firing line while I was downrange, but coming up 10 feet behind the ready line and placing a weapon in a rack pointed skyward is a different story to me. Of course, like you pointed out, I'm around guns all the time, surrounded by people trained in their use and safety, used to having a dedicated range safety rodding people on and off (which is hard to find on civilian ranges) and used to ranges where you approach from the side, not the back. That makes me a bit more comfortable over how RCPractitioner entered the range, but I understand where other people wouldn't be.

I guess at the end of the day it all boils down to the rules of the range you're on, and how the rangemaster on duty runs it. If he says I need a chamber plug and a blaze orange hat to put my weapon in the rack, I'm off to the range shack to look for said hat...and if he says no weapons change location until the entire firing line is back from downrange and in the front leaning rest, then I drop and start pushing.
 
It seems to me there are two issues here. A clear infraction of the range rules warrants a correction by the range officer, there's no doubt of that. The manner in which the correction is delivered is another matter. There are an infinite number of methods for getting a message across without being demeaning. The infraction was a simple misunderstanding of the rules and hysteria on the part of the range officer was inappropriate.
 
Here's my take(and I am an NRA cerified RSO):

Yes, you screwed up 2 ways:

1. Handling the gun(for any reason) during a cease fire.
2. Going over the line to the bench.

HOWEVER: IMNSHO the range officer in question handled it very badly if it started out like that and got as ugly as you said. I don't really know all the details, so I won't armchair QB it.

It is sad we have to be so strict, but you have to remember:
Someone at the range could possibly have 0 experience so we have to run it safely for the lowest common denominator.
 
This isn't so much a range question as it is a question of how to communicate effectively.

The RO acted like an idiot, unfortunately. If he had a problem with you he should have told you specifically and precisely what the problem was. ROs should not be the least bit vague, they have a duty to the other shooters to be specific and accurate, and above all non emotional. Given the fact that you were/are not aware of what his specific problem with you was, then he did not communicate effectively and left you not knowing what exactly not to do in the future - hence he is an idiot and did not perform his duty. Did you do something wrong? Who knows? If he caouldn't or wouldn't explain it clearly then how could anyone know? On the other hand, you could and should have communicated better by calmly getting him to be specific.

Two rules for arguing with idiots: :)

1. Never argue with an idiot because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

2. Never argue with an idiot because bystanders won't be able to tell who is the idiot and who is not.

In the future, remain calm, do not become argumentative, defuse the others persons emtional/agression by your utter calmness and sincerety. Ask specific questions, and keep asking them until you get specific answers that you understand and that make sense to you. When you think you know what it is he is trying to say, repeat it back to him as in "Oh, so you mean that in the future I should leave my rifle in my vehicle until...." and he will either confirm that you do now understand, or clarify in more depth.

Confrontations with idiots occur everywhere, not just on the range. It is unfortunate though that the range let anyone act in a responsible position like that without some form of training.
 
as a newcomer to the DFW area, may I ask

which range? I have only been to two around here so far
Now as far as your experience, I will not judge you. But in the RSO's defense, he does not know if you have been there 100 times or if it's your first time. He does not know if you are an experienced, safe shooter or a moron. It sounds as if his approach to the matter could use work, but I for one am tired of having to worry about everyone's "feelings" every time I open my mouth.
FWIW, I've been barked at by an RSO once or twice before, and it is embarassing in the extreme (esp if you are on a first date at the time :)
Also FWIW, I was at a range about two weeks ago, when a pair of guys violated the "no crossing the line during a cease fire" and the RSO looked at them then looked away. Given the choice, I'd prefer a DI who consistently enforces the rules to an RSO who may or may not...
 
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