Diallo verdict
- Thread starter aztec777
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No matter where you live...In all seriousness-
I'm glad that the officers were found not guilty. To suggest that their misjudgement was paramount to an intentional murder is wrong.
I do believe that the incident, per the Rodney King beating, illustrates that America's law enforcement desperately needs to train to the professional level which America expects, and demands, of them. Until America coffs up fiscally and provides adequate training to police agencies we will continue to experience these tragic mishaps.
Erik
I'm glad that the officers were found not guilty. To suggest that their misjudgement was paramount to an intentional murder is wrong.
I do believe that the incident, per the Rodney King beating, illustrates that America's law enforcement desperately needs to train to the professional level which America expects, and demands, of them. Until America coffs up fiscally and provides adequate training to police agencies we will continue to experience these tragic mishaps.
Erik
MusclesMcGee
Moderator
Yea, God forbid you try to take grocies up to your fourth floor walkup. Didn't realize being in possession of an eggplant is a crime. Conviction no conviction, they'll rot in hell.
Hmmm. Any bets how long before US DoJ steps in, charges them with federal civil rights violations and tries them all over again?
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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
Was this a surprise? Of course not.
41 SHOTS 41!! Jesus Christ. Two of them reloaded, lets not forget. Also, imagine you were Dialo. You see 4 guys in PLAIN CLOTHES pull guns on you, and the next thing you see are muzzle flashes. What would YOU have done? Gimme a break.
Remember, if you ever shoot someone a bunch of times, all you have to do is get up on the stand and cry. Works every time.
BTW, this very same could happen to US, Gun Owners. Justice was served eh? Tell that to the poor black guy that has 19 lead slugs in him.
Misjudgement? Waco and Ruby Ridge were misjudgements too werent they? The Feds/cops just happened to mess up, not on purpose, of course not.
I knew the people at TFL would be behind those trigger happy bastrds who think that they're God because they wear a badge on their chest.
41 SHOTS 41!! Jesus Christ. Two of them reloaded, lets not forget. Also, imagine you were Dialo. You see 4 guys in PLAIN CLOTHES pull guns on you, and the next thing you see are muzzle flashes. What would YOU have done? Gimme a break.
Remember, if you ever shoot someone a bunch of times, all you have to do is get up on the stand and cry. Works every time.
BTW, this very same could happen to US, Gun Owners. Justice was served eh? Tell that to the poor black guy that has 19 lead slugs in him.
Misjudgement? Waco and Ruby Ridge were misjudgements too werent they? The Feds/cops just happened to mess up, not on purpose, of course not.
I knew the people at TFL would be behind those trigger happy bastrds who think that they're God because they wear a badge on their chest.
I am sorry But I DON"T think they should have been acquitted! The rule is: YOU POSITIVLY IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET!! The man was unarmed and was shot at 41 times!!
If it would have been a CCW holder who shot a unarmed guy we would be hanged in court. I am sick of seeing innocent people being gunned down and then have it labeled an "accident". 41 shots is NO accident!
I would say they should have at least have been cinvicted of criminal negligence. Because they should have used better judgement both in going in there and making sure that they actually had faced a life-threatning situation before making a piece of swiss cheese out of the guy.
Smells like Waco to me
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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
If it would have been a CCW holder who shot a unarmed guy we would be hanged in court. I am sick of seeing innocent people being gunned down and then have it labeled an "accident". 41 shots is NO accident!
I would say they should have at least have been cinvicted of criminal negligence. Because they should have used better judgement both in going in there and making sure that they actually had faced a life-threatning situation before making a piece of swiss cheese out of the guy.
Smells like Waco to me
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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
I have to say I am torn on this one. I don't believe there was evil intent on the part of the officers, but I DO think there was gross incompetence and negligence and maybe when people to whom we give the power to KILL citizens based on their judgement might should be held to a higher criminal standard. Gross incompetence on the part of a cook at Mickey D's means my fries are too chewy...gross incompetence on the part of a cop could and DID get an innocent man killed.
MusclesMcGee
Moderator
Geez, imagine if those cops had been sent to prison ! That would have been worthy of Payperview !!!! Would of got my $60 bucks to see justice served.
Wait a min here, they were tried by a jury of their peers. Did not have a dream team of lawyers playing the race card over and over again to get them off.
Who here watched every second of the trial not missing one word of testamony?????
So what if they excuted poor judgement, mabey this is the best they have ever been trained, have you ever given this any thought???
What if they do not think about firearms and tactics like those of us that visit TFL do???? So what if they reloaded were they afraid for their life or just displaying a poor level of training.
If you were in their shoes would you want to be second gussed for your every move for the rest of your life by people that do not have the same knowledge base, training and information they did??
Give them a break and support them like you would want to be support if you were in their shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who here watched every second of the trial not missing one word of testamony?????
So what if they excuted poor judgement, mabey this is the best they have ever been trained, have you ever given this any thought???
What if they do not think about firearms and tactics like those of us that visit TFL do???? So what if they reloaded were they afraid for their life or just displaying a poor level of training.
If you were in their shoes would you want to be second gussed for your every move for the rest of your life by people that do not have the same knowledge base, training and information they did??
Give them a break and support them like you would want to be support if you were in their shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joey, sorry, don't buy it. They are PAID to be second guessed. They KNEW the risks of their job when they took it and were willing. No one forced them to become cops. If they are this grossly incompetent and negligent, they shouldn't have that kind of power and responsibility.
Jeff Thomas
New member
swatman, personally, I don't mind frankly criticizing LEO's when they deserve it. But I agree with some others here - this was a tragedy all around.
Try a FATS simulator someday. I've never been in a lethal force situation, but I've been 'killed' a few times in a FATS simulator. Try identifying the object in a potential adversary's hand as he rapidly raises it towards you. Now, try it in dim light. Now try reacting properly while that is going on, and one of your partners is yelling 'gun!' and another is falling.
Sorry, but you put all of that together and I would probably have fired as well. The number of shots is an issue, but even there we've heard the guy was in the doorway in such a way that he didn't drop. We are trained to fire until the threat is stopped.
I don't know what really happened that night, but the story has been consistent from the start. And, if this is really what happened, then I cannot see why these men must be convicted of a crime.
IMHO, this is quite different from a no-knock.
Sometimes life throws us a cascade of bad coincidences which lead to multiple failures and tragedy. Tragedies are not crimes. And, these men should not pay a price here in order to atone for racism, corruption and brutality that has occurred elsewhere in the NYC PD.
Try a FATS simulator someday. I've never been in a lethal force situation, but I've been 'killed' a few times in a FATS simulator. Try identifying the object in a potential adversary's hand as he rapidly raises it towards you. Now, try it in dim light. Now try reacting properly while that is going on, and one of your partners is yelling 'gun!' and another is falling.
Sorry, but you put all of that together and I would probably have fired as well. The number of shots is an issue, but even there we've heard the guy was in the doorway in such a way that he didn't drop. We are trained to fire until the threat is stopped.
I don't know what really happened that night, but the story has been consistent from the start. And, if this is really what happened, then I cannot see why these men must be convicted of a crime.
IMHO, this is quite different from a no-knock.
Sometimes life throws us a cascade of bad coincidences which lead to multiple failures and tragedy. Tragedies are not crimes. And, these men should not pay a price here in order to atone for racism, corruption and brutality that has occurred elsewhere in the NYC PD.
This verdict gives the message that LEO's will not be held accountable for their poor judgement or worst, taking out their own form of street justice. I wonder if those who beleive this was a good verdict would feel the same way if it was your father or brother who was shot. These cops had the numbers on their side, had bullet proof vests, had fire power and the opportunity to use cover and still could not wait to see a weapon? They also had the draw on the subject. When I came home and found an intruder in my home I had my adrenalin going, no vest, no backup and I did not shoot cause I saw no weapon. They are poor excuses for LEO's and should have been convicted of at least manslaughter! Having lived in NYC I remember many newspaper stories of bystanders being accidently shot by the cops. Never read about these officers having any consequences for this.No wonder it happens so much.
there is another thread on this subject running in the legal and political area - see http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=25396
as in there, to keep the facts straight - there are going to be enough emotions about this case without stroking the flames further -
the facts are there were two officers that fired 16 rounds (emptying their weapons), one fired 5 rounds and the other 4. for details, see the background report on court tv, at
http://courttv.com/national/diallo/012800_background_ctv.html
read some of the background info presented in court, and some of the court testimony (summaries only), and you can see what the jury was given to make their decision.
again, let's try to do our part in maintaining some clear thinking in this tragedy.
as in there, to keep the facts straight - there are going to be enough emotions about this case without stroking the flames further -
the facts are there were two officers that fired 16 rounds (emptying their weapons), one fired 5 rounds and the other 4. for details, see the background report on court tv, at
http://courttv.com/national/diallo/012800_background_ctv.html
read some of the background info presented in court, and some of the court testimony (summaries only), and you can see what the jury was given to make their decision.
again, let's try to do our part in maintaining some clear thinking in this tragedy.
Gwinnydapooh
Retired Screen Name
Of course I would feel differently if it were my dad. So what? Lots of things that don't bother me a bit when they happen to other people bother me a lot when they happen to me. That's because if it happens to me, my emotions are involved. That doesn't make it right!
And so we're all clear, I'm not implying above that the incident doesn't bother me. I do think it was horrible, but I don't understand what can be done to solve it. Diallo apparently thought he was acting properly (bringing out his papers) so you can't really blame him--but I tried just dimming the lights and looking at a wallet in my hand in a mirror from 8-10 feet away, and I couldn't tell what it was. If someone were yelling at me that it was a gun I'd have to take them at their word. So you can't pin it on the cops either. Looks to me like everybody was doing the best they could and the circumstances were completely wrong. Murphy and all that crap. And a guy got killed. And that's bad but no reason to put four more away just because we gotta blame somebody.
How do you guys suggest we train cops so that they'll be able to tell one small, squarish black object from another in low light? Vitamin D supplements?
And so we're all clear, I'm not implying above that the incident doesn't bother me. I do think it was horrible, but I don't understand what can be done to solve it. Diallo apparently thought he was acting properly (bringing out his papers) so you can't really blame him--but I tried just dimming the lights and looking at a wallet in my hand in a mirror from 8-10 feet away, and I couldn't tell what it was. If someone were yelling at me that it was a gun I'd have to take them at their word. So you can't pin it on the cops either. Looks to me like everybody was doing the best they could and the circumstances were completely wrong. Murphy and all that crap. And a guy got killed. And that's bad but no reason to put four more away just because we gotta blame somebody.
How do you guys suggest we train cops so that they'll be able to tell one small, squarish black object from another in low light? Vitamin D supplements?
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