Dems...how do you feel now?

I told my senator kyl something and asked him another . First I asked him to ask Bush how many pedophiles would have to march before he backed favorable legislation for them .(This was to show the stupidity of bowing to mob rule). I then told him that if this piece of garbage bill were to pass the only republican to get into the White House in the next 200 years would have be on the guided tour .
As for Mc Cain :barf:
 
targetshootr
Strategy-wise, democrats are loving guys like you. You and you buds handed over a constituency you easily won in the 2000 election.

Not true. Bush received roughly 35% of the Hispanic vote in 2000 and 44% in 2004. Hispanics have historically voted Democrat by even wider margins.
 
I don't think people are too stupid to understand the issue, I think people are too lazy to put enough effort into finding and analysing the information needed to understand the issue.
 
This amnesty bill was definitely worthless. The problem is with the politicians not so much the parties. What we have are people in places of power that are used to getting their way. These folks are elitist and believe that the average American is about as smart as a box of rocks. We should vote out all incumbents, excepting those that voted correctly, on all levels. Those that did vote according to the will of the people should be warned that we are watching and they could be next if they don't represent us.

This higher and mightier than thou attitude, that far too many of these politicians have, is the real problem. The money/power attracts them to politics. Just as we should remove incentive to cross the border illegally, so should we make being a politician less attractive.

A way to do this would be to limit their terms as we have done for the presidency. No individual man should profit while in office, at any level. They should not live high on the hog while others work hard to make a living. Would it be so bad if these politicians had to eat in a chow hall, sleep in a barracks, and be transported in a school bus? It is good enough for America's service men, so it should be good enough for them.

Politicians are always talking about making sacrifices. Where are their sacrifices? Instead of personal fame, riches, and power, perhaps it should only be worth the honor to be a politician. Special interest groups are part of this problem as well, they shouldn't be allowed to buy favors from politicians or vice versa. Buying favors is tantamount to bribery and should be treated as such. Remove a large amount of the money and you remove a great deal of the corruption.

If politicians wish to be rich, make them earn it in the private sector. They can run a business and turn a profit to make their money. The founders were merchants and business men first and politicians second. Congress wasn't in session all the time, as they needed time to run their private business.

Limiting the scope of the Federal Government is needed yesterday. If people don't start taking responsibility for their own private lives, instead of expecting government to fix it all, we may end up not having a private life all together.

Once we end the era of big government, we end much of the problems that plague us from micro management on the federal level. A return of power to the state and local government is long over due. IMO, the federal government was intended to be a third party arbitrator between states not the sole authority over the states. America cannot be free with a powerful central government. Centralizing power is a path to less freedom.

When I was a child the Dems were appealing to the heart. The heart cannot rule the head. The road to hell is paved with good intention. Only through reason will we be able to do that which is right. Government should approach problems from an objective point of view rather than a subjective one alone.

Winston Churchill once said.

If you are conservative at 20 yrs. old, you have no heart. If you are liberal at 40, you have no brain. Paraphrasing of course, but you get the point. ;)

Let's work for the greater good of our country, with reason and compassion in that order. The one thing that we all can agree on, is that America is still the best country to live in and to hand down to our offspring. We should try our hardest to keep it that way. I have no children, that is a personal choice, yet I wouldn't want any other persons children to suffer from our collective mistakes. Only by working toward a unifying goal do we become better, internal division among ourselves only serves to bring us down. We can do it, so let's not lose sight of this. All differences aside, we all love this land and want her to prosper in the future for all Americans. We may not be able to solve the world's problems, but surely we can solve America's. :)
 
I am a registered Independent.
As far as I'm concerned....BOTH parties are garbage!
That's about the saddest attempt to mimic impartiality I've seen so far
And how is that impartial?
As evidenced by their vote, the Dems are by far the worse of the two.
But they BOTH suck!
There isn't ANYTHING I can think of that I'm "impartial" about.
Not even Paris Hilton.
Does THAT clear up my stance any for you?:rolleyes:
 
Your stance was already clear to me from the outset, much as the preamble "I'm not a racist, but..." is invariably followed by proof to the contrary.

"It's quite evident by the votes which party is working against that which is good for our nation."
Yep. Both of 'em.
 
"I'm not a racist, but
You're point is what?
I've stated BOTH parties suck but the Dems suck more.
That's vague to you???:confused::rolleyes:
Please be specific and show how I'm NOT being forthcoming in my statements.
"It's quite evident by the votes which party is working against that which is good for our nation."
Yep. Both of 'em.
Of course!!
But which party voted overwhelmingly to implement the bill.
Are you honest enough to answer truthfully?
That's my point.
Which party "overwhelmingly" voted against the best interests of this country on this issue?
 
According to the conservatives democrats are all communist who want to destroy our country and implement a communist nanny state destroying all private enterprise on the way and regulate every aspect of our economic life.

According to the liberals republicans are all facsists who want to implement an fundamentalist christian theocracy, regulate every aspect of our social lives and financially exploit everyone not already wealthy.

Both sides seem to imply that the other side is evil personafied and have nothing but evil intentions.

Simplistic? You bet.

Personally I think most of the politicians on both sides are trying to do whatever it takes to paint the other side as evil and win power, influence and money. If they can scare their base into hating the other side instead of seeing the other side as well meaning but misguided so much the better.
 
^ What he said. If you truly believe as you claim"I am a registered Independent.
As far as I'm concerned....BOTH parties are garbage! "

Then enuff said.

OTOH, When you immediately launch into an argument about how one party is suckier than the other, you lose all credibility for the first statement. It makes you a partisan Republican (in deed if not fact), and it's best to go ahead and get it out in the open.

Anymore there is zero difference between the two parties AFAIC. Both seek to use the Federal government to impose their ideology on the nation. Ergo both place their allegiance to party, special interests, and lobbies before those of the people and are both equally deserving of contempt and derision.

Now having said that, I find that the Republicans are more out-of-touch with the wishes of their own base, and thus the best candidate for reform.
 
Personally I think most of the politicians on both sides are trying to do whatever it takes to paint the other side as evil and win power, influence and money.

That's it in a nutshell! The hard-core mad-dogs on each side spend all their time calling names and trying to be superior, rather than work for what is best for us all.
 
Then enuff said
Thank you!:rolleyes:
OTOH, When you immediately launch into an argument about how one party is suckier than the other, you lose all credibility for the first statement. It makes you a partisan Republican (in deed if not fact), and it's best to go ahead and get it out in the open
.
First...I did not
launch into an argument about how one party is suckier than the other
Second....I stated a fact...that one party voted overwhelmingly in favor of a bill that would have been VERY bad for this country.
I compared that to the relatively few members of the opposing party that voted in favor of it.
Another fact.
The simple fact is that one party was MORE willing to implement VERY bad policies than the other one was.
It makes you a partisan Republican
What nonsense!:rolleyes:
Pointing out that one party WAS MORE willing to pass a bad bill makes me a partisan of the opposing party?!?!?
So, pointing out that the Nazis were probably worse than the Fascists makes me a Fascist?
Interesting logic?!?!
Do you agree or not that, AS EVIDENCED BY THE VOTES, the Democrats displayed a far greater disregard for the wishes of the American people than the Republicans did?
 
So, pointing out that the Nazis were probably worse than the Fascists makes me a Fascist?

If you are forcing a false dicotomy on us then yes. If there are only two choices and you paint one as less bad than the other you are making a de facto argument in favor the "less bad" option.
 
If you are forcing a false dicotomy on us then yes
That's such BS!
I'm not forcing anything on you.
Saying one thing is worse than another in no way means that you are in favor of the other choice.
It just shows that you think one was worse.
If that were the case we couldn't display any opinions on anything where choices are involved.
And in GS pathetic desire to paint me as something I'm not, he has lost sight of my initial query, whch was:
To all the Democrats on TFL that were strongly opposed to the bill, how do feel about your party now?
Knowing how detrimental this bill would have been had it passed, and seeing how overwhelming the Democratic support was for it, how do you perceive your party at this point?
Are you still proud to have them as your party?
If you are, why?
As far as one being worse than the other, please address this:
Do you agree or not that, AS EVIDENCED BY THE VOTES, the Democrats displayed a far greater disregard for the wishes of the American people than the Republicans did?
 
It's a common tactic for people who are trying to win an argument to try and frame the debate so that it forces their opponent to choose the lesser of two evils.

In this particular case we don't even know why individual congressmen chose one way or the other, since it would appear that party loyalty was not the primary factor.
 
It's a common tactic for people who are trying to win an argument to try and frame the debate so that it forces their opponent to choose the lesser of two evils
.
You just can't be honest enough to answer the obvious can you.

In this particular case we don't even know why individual congressmen chose one way or the other, since it would appear that party loyalty was not the primary factor.
The reasons have no bearing on how they ultimately voted.
They made a choice and voted accordingly.
What a cop out!
You're as much a weenie as those spineless senators are!:cool:
The question couldn't be clearer:
Do you agree or not that, AS EVIDENCED BY THE VOTES, the Democrats displayed a far greater disregard for the wishes of the American people than the Republicans did?
Weenie!
 
There are a number of politicos on both sides of the aisle that wouldn't make a good boat anchor. This is evidenced by the fact that they are willing to ignore the wishes of four-fifths of the population, in pursuit of so-called immigration reform.

It is also pretty clear that a large segment of the public feels that congress is doing worse at their 'job' than ever before.

As for the dems, it only stands to reason that they are going to 'feel their oats' after their sweeping victory last November. Personally, I no longer claim affiliation with either gang of brigands. If I can't find someone I genuinely feel good about voting for this November, I'll scout deer, cut wood, or do something else productive instead.
 
Of course it matters why they voted the way they voted. If a particular senator voted a certain way because his party told him to, then your point may have some validity. If a certain person voted opposite their parties stance what can we infer from that?

The reason we have a senate in the first place is because people do not have the time to study and debate each issue. We vote for senators who are supposed to look out for our best interest, not blindly follow our wishes.

For instance, what if a Senator is from an area where the majority of people support draconian handgun control. Should that senator blindly do what his constituents want or should he consider the constitution and the best interest of his voters in the long run?

I don't think the immigration issue is as big a deal to most people as the anti-immigrant zealots would have us believe. My step dad recently died of cancer, but before he died he was bed ridden and spent a lot of time watching Fox. He would agitated and really upset over the immigration issue. There is a decent chance that he has never encountered an illegal immigrant in his life, since we live in south central ohio, but that didn't stop him from getting upset and being miserable about the issue.

I get sick and tired of unwarranted fear mongering on both sides, as do most americans. I think part of the reason the democrats won the last election was that people are rejecting the ring wing fear mongering that seems so prevelant these days.

Furthermore, I think it the democrats do a bunch of fear mongering of their own in the presidential election the people will reject them
 
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