loggerhead
Moderator
OOPPPPS! Sorry about that folks, It was ment to be a new thread.
Oh well, will try to do better next time.
Oh well, will try to do better next time.
Democrats introduce bill for Felons to vote
- Thread starter carbiner
- Start date
One point I would like to toss out there, is the fact that anti's often use the idiotic behavior of felons to build a case against lawful gun ownership. These liberals are desperate for votes 1st, but don't forget how slick and deceptive they are. Gun owners becoming softer and more sympathetic towards killers,rapists,thiefs,etc. How much better can it get for the left!
No its about felons and the right to vote.
Caribiner and Pipo
There was an article in SWAT magazine about restoring some felons gun rights..
one of the examples was suppose you make a honest mistake on your tax return to the IRS and they prosecute you for income tax evasion and you are found guilty of a felony?
There goes your right to firearms, voting, in some states you may even lose your drivers liscense, employers may not hire you because it costs more to insure a felon.
You serve your sentence, complete your probation terms.
Would you rather go before a board or have a law that returns your rights once you have become a productive citizen again.
your chances with the Florida Board
" Nearly 40,000 people -- 80 percent of the 50,000 felons released from custody between 2001 and 2003 -- still can't vote. Among those barred from the polls: nonviolent offenders whose crimes warranted little or no prison time, the very people Clemency Board members say should quickly regain their rights."
"At the current pace, it could take up to three decades for all the felons who have asked to vote to get an answer."
http://www.righttovote.org/dynamic/textitems/472_UFile.htm
"Shanteala Mash was dirt-poor with a 2-year-old son the day she pulled into a bank and tried to cash five stolen checks.
The single conviction cost her jail time, a felony record and something else: the right to vote.
Now, she's a 28-year-old library assistant raising two children by herself on a salary of $26,000 a year. But as a convicted felon in Florida, she has been stripped of her civil rights. She can't vote. She can't run for public office. And she can't get a state license to be a nurse, an ambulance driver or even an insect exterminator.
Earlier this year, Mash asked the Florida Clemency Board, headed by Gov. Jeb Bush, to restore her rights so she could vote Tuesday for the first time.
She hasn't received an answer."
"Miami drug counselor Jimmy Klinakis must appeal directly to the board because of a robbery conviction that is more than 20 years old.
"That means the 51-year-old, who leaves home before dawn every Saturday to open a food bank for the poor, could be 81 before he gets his rights restored -- if ever."
you take your chances with the politicians, Ill put my trust in a fair law.
''It's hard enough to work through issues and forgive yourself,'' said Klinakis, who says he applied in 2000 and again earlier this year. ``But where along the line does society forgive you, too?''
Caribiner and Pipo
There was an article in SWAT magazine about restoring some felons gun rights..
one of the examples was suppose you make a honest mistake on your tax return to the IRS and they prosecute you for income tax evasion and you are found guilty of a felony?
There goes your right to firearms, voting, in some states you may even lose your drivers liscense, employers may not hire you because it costs more to insure a felon.
You serve your sentence, complete your probation terms.
Would you rather go before a board or have a law that returns your rights once you have become a productive citizen again.
your chances with the Florida Board
" Nearly 40,000 people -- 80 percent of the 50,000 felons released from custody between 2001 and 2003 -- still can't vote. Among those barred from the polls: nonviolent offenders whose crimes warranted little or no prison time, the very people Clemency Board members say should quickly regain their rights."
"At the current pace, it could take up to three decades for all the felons who have asked to vote to get an answer."
http://www.righttovote.org/dynamic/textitems/472_UFile.htm
"Shanteala Mash was dirt-poor with a 2-year-old son the day she pulled into a bank and tried to cash five stolen checks.
The single conviction cost her jail time, a felony record and something else: the right to vote.
Now, she's a 28-year-old library assistant raising two children by herself on a salary of $26,000 a year. But as a convicted felon in Florida, she has been stripped of her civil rights. She can't vote. She can't run for public office. And she can't get a state license to be a nurse, an ambulance driver or even an insect exterminator.
Earlier this year, Mash asked the Florida Clemency Board, headed by Gov. Jeb Bush, to restore her rights so she could vote Tuesday for the first time.
She hasn't received an answer."
"Miami drug counselor Jimmy Klinakis must appeal directly to the board because of a robbery conviction that is more than 20 years old.
"That means the 51-year-old, who leaves home before dawn every Saturday to open a food bank for the poor, could be 81 before he gets his rights restored -- if ever."
you take your chances with the politicians, Ill put my trust in a fair law.
''It's hard enough to work through issues and forgive yourself,'' said Klinakis, who says he applied in 2000 and again earlier this year. ``But where along the line does society forgive you, too?''
Suppose you or a loved one was victimized by a con man, rapist, mugger, burglar, drunk driver, etc.
Would restoring that person's right to vote and have firearms be of concern to you. Let's say you testified against him. Would you write a letter in favor of him getting his rights back.
Why would you want return of rights to be arbitrary? The democrat party are so eager to eliminate any freedom which may be offensive, or harm 1 child yet they want to trust all felons released from prison and give them the right to vote and bear arms?
Obviously most who advocate this have never visited a prison. I have interviewed over 100 felons most in prison, I don't want any of them to have the right to have firearms any time soon. Most I wouldn't trust to turn my back on them. I don't want them in the voting booth either.
For every one case you describe there are 50 with real victims who have suffered because of their actions.
I would like to hear some LEO/prison guards feelings about this.
All of the problems mentioned in this forum could and probably will be fixed without giving the inmates the keys to the asylum.
Would restoring that person's right to vote and have firearms be of concern to you. Let's say you testified against him. Would you write a letter in favor of him getting his rights back.
Why would you want return of rights to be arbitrary? The democrat party are so eager to eliminate any freedom which may be offensive, or harm 1 child yet they want to trust all felons released from prison and give them the right to vote and bear arms?
Obviously most who advocate this have never visited a prison. I have interviewed over 100 felons most in prison, I don't want any of them to have the right to have firearms any time soon. Most I wouldn't trust to turn my back on them. I don't want them in the voting booth either.
For every one case you describe there are 50 with real victims who have suffered because of their actions.
I would like to hear some LEO/prison guards feelings about this.
All of the problems mentioned in this forum could and probably will be fixed without giving the inmates the keys to the asylum.
shooter429
Moderator
Bad idea
Felons should not be able to vote, because they forfeitted that right when they committed the crime. As far as I am concerned, losing one's right to own firearms and right to vote is part of the penalty. It should not ever be restored, because these people have proven that they are anti-social, with poor judgement and a lack of insight and they could care less about society or anybody in it. If you are a crimiminal and you want to vote to get free money, free food, free drugs and to disarm your victims, too F-in bad. If you are a slimebag Dem ,who knows your entire voter base is the killer,rapist,druggy, leach, fringe of society and you are pissed cuz they got caught and can't support your tax-increasing freedom-hating criminal-support plans, too bad.
Anybody who has ever dealth with these people knows that 99.99 percent are never going to change and the others just lie about it.
Q. How do you know when an inmate is lying?
A. When his lips are moving
Shooter429 (ex LEO/CO)
Felons should not be able to vote, because they forfeitted that right when they committed the crime. As far as I am concerned, losing one's right to own firearms and right to vote is part of the penalty. It should not ever be restored, because these people have proven that they are anti-social, with poor judgement and a lack of insight and they could care less about society or anybody in it. If you are a crimiminal and you want to vote to get free money, free food, free drugs and to disarm your victims, too F-in bad. If you are a slimebag Dem ,who knows your entire voter base is the killer,rapist,druggy, leach, fringe of society and you are pissed cuz they got caught and can't support your tax-increasing freedom-hating criminal-support plans, too bad.
Anybody who has ever dealth with these people knows that 99.99 percent are never going to change and the others just lie about it.
Q. How do you know when an inmate is lying?
A. When his lips are moving
Shooter429 (ex LEO/CO)
Wow, can we get some sources please. That is quite a generalization to make. I could look at republicans like Gingrich, Lott, Cunningham, Nixon and make a pretty bad generalization about Republicans too. Or what about the fact that Strum Thurmond switched to the Republican party after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 64. But I don't because that wouldn't be fair. I have met many Democrats that are upstanding citizens, active in their Church and community that definately don't fit this generalization. Some of them even enjoy guns. Making a stupid generalization like that will only serve to alienate some possible allies on firearms issues. And I've also met some College Repulicans who fit the druggy description pretty well.
shooter429
Moderator
Fal,
Oh cummon now. I did not say all Democrats... I said the "slimebag Dems that...oh, I see why you took it that way. Redundancy is one of my bad writing habits. Sorry. LOL Seriously, I think they did the crime and now they get to pay. I won't cry for them. They did it to themselves. As to anybody pandering to the deathrow inmates to get a vote, I say "shame on you." That is low. And no amount of liberal babbel can change that.
Back what up with statistics? My observations? Hey, I deal with these people every day. I don't need a study to tell me what is under my nose. Besides, anybody can make up statistics for a purpose. And I sure would not trust anything that came from an organization like the ACLU. But that is because I already know the truth and have lived it.
Work in a prison for a couple years or even a County jail. Work with dangerous mentally ill offenders. Watch them act like predatory animals. See the victims of these dirtballs and then contrast the pain they cause with the way they pride themselves on violence and gettin over on people. Then come back and tell me about it. :barf:
Shooter429
Oh cummon now. I did not say all Democrats... I said the "slimebag Dems that...oh, I see why you took it that way. Redundancy is one of my bad writing habits. Sorry. LOL Seriously, I think they did the crime and now they get to pay. I won't cry for them. They did it to themselves. As to anybody pandering to the deathrow inmates to get a vote, I say "shame on you." That is low. And no amount of liberal babbel can change that.
Back what up with statistics? My observations? Hey, I deal with these people every day. I don't need a study to tell me what is under my nose. Besides, anybody can make up statistics for a purpose. And I sure would not trust anything that came from an organization like the ACLU. But that is because I already know the truth and have lived it.
Work in a prison for a couple years or even a County jail. Work with dangerous mentally ill offenders. Watch them act like predatory animals. See the victims of these dirtballs and then contrast the pain they cause with the way they pride themselves on violence and gettin over on people. Then come back and tell me about it. :barf:
Shooter429
Geoff Timm
New member
Fal 4 me asked, "Show me any proof that the entire Dem voter base is made up of what you say it is."
Actions of Democrat Politicians.
Interference with Police and ecouraging race riots, LA and Cincy OH.
Lowering "age of consent" laws.
Laws and orders forbidding Police to enforce emigration laws.
Non-sentences of child rapists by Democrat Judges.
Gun Control laws in major Democrat dominated states and cities.
Need I go on?
Geoff
Who was from Cuyahoga county Ohio, where we knew the Democrat Board of Elections were producing bogus results, but by state law, passed by the Democrats, the State government could not interfer, under any circumstances.
Actions of Democrat Politicians.
Interference with Police and ecouraging race riots, LA and Cincy OH.
Lowering "age of consent" laws.
Laws and orders forbidding Police to enforce emigration laws.
Non-sentences of child rapists by Democrat Judges.
Gun Control laws in major Democrat dominated states and cities.
Need I go on?
Geoff
Who was from Cuyahoga county Ohio, where we knew the Democrat Board of Elections were producing bogus results, but by state law, passed by the Democrats, the State government could not interfer, under any circumstances.
Geoff Timm
New member
Fact: A convicted felon cannot serve in the military.
Therefore it cannot execute the responsibilities of citizenship.
Therefore it cannot have the RIGHTS of citizenship without the RESPONSIBILITIES.
Translation, "If you can't put your ass on the line, don't put your hand in the air."
Geoff
Who believes strongly that elected officials should not be allowed to vote on the budget or any bill effecting the national defense, unless they have served in the US Military.
Therefore it cannot execute the responsibilities of citizenship.
Therefore it cannot have the RIGHTS of citizenship without the RESPONSIBILITIES.
Translation, "If you can't put your ass on the line, don't put your hand in the air."
Geoff
Who believes strongly that elected officials should not be allowed to vote on the budget or any bill effecting the national defense, unless they have served in the US Military.
Mr Timm,
By your qualifications only about 26% of Congress could vote on those matters then, which means that Edward Kennedy could vote and Saxbey Chambliss could not...lol
If putting serving in the military should be a qualification for citizens rights then there are a lot of folks who wouldnt have any....
Uniformed service was voluntary the last time I looked and we dont practice conscription.
I am sure that there are countries you could relocate to where they practice this if it is what you desire.
People elect their represenatives as they see fit. If they dont agree with how they vote they can replace them. As they are the "voice of the people" they are allowed to vote on any piece of legislation.
Also some of the notions of all Dems is seriously flawed.
I am a registered Democrat, Lifetime NRA Member, Veteran, have not encouraged any riots and support the abolishment of gun control laws.
you might also find it interesting that most of the returning war on terrorism veterans for Congressional office are running as Democrats and not Republicans.
By your qualifications only about 26% of Congress could vote on those matters then, which means that Edward Kennedy could vote and Saxbey Chambliss could not...lol
If putting serving in the military should be a qualification for citizens rights then there are a lot of folks who wouldnt have any....
Uniformed service was voluntary the last time I looked and we dont practice conscription.
I am sure that there are countries you could relocate to where they practice this if it is what you desire.
People elect their represenatives as they see fit. If they dont agree with how they vote they can replace them. As they are the "voice of the people" they are allowed to vote on any piece of legislation.
Also some of the notions of all Dems is seriously flawed.
I am a registered Democrat, Lifetime NRA Member, Veteran, have not encouraged any riots and support the abolishment of gun control laws.
you might also find it interesting that most of the returning war on terrorism veterans for Congressional office are running as Democrats and not Republicans.
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MeekAndMild
New member
I don't know why this surprises you. Dead people, felons, illegal aliens, its all the same to them. My father has voted straight Democratic ticket ever since he died.
Shooter429 +1
I used to work in a mental hospital which had an unwritten policy (created by the affirmative-action director of nursing) of letting all the Democrat patients out on pass to vote in every election. Maybe 5% of the patients at any given time were Republicans but they were not allowed passes out to go vote.
fisherman66
New member
Redundancy?
If gun ownership rights are restored at the same time as voting rights then perhaps that can negate the perceived partisan motivation.
If non-violent felons paid for their incarceration period or at least choose to volunteer for a wage garnishment after a parole peroid of say 10% of wages; then I don't see any reason why full right restoration should not be given serious consideration by a board of judges. After the monitary debt is paid, an expunging or sealing of records would open door in the job market.
I do think that if the tax payers spent tens of thousands of dollars per year, that some effort to remunerate speaks not only to character, but also to effort to live a productive life.
fisherman66
New member
Yes, and if felons paid for their incarceration then eveyone else could perhaps pay less Federal Income Taxes.
What if he hasn't demonstrated he is reformed and leading a productive life? Should he get his rights back just because he has completed the terms of his sentence?
I may even go for a tough standardization of criteria to allow for return of rights, ie constant employment for 5 years, 10 letters of reference from non-felons, no delinquent taxes, no convictions except minor traffic, no delinquent child support, etc and cost of verification of these factors at the felons expense. IMO restoration of rights simply for completion of prison, parole, probation is a recipe for disaster.
define not leading a productive life.
if he hasnt reformed he has not met the terms of his parole or probation so no vote for him and he is likely to end up incarcerated again so no vote.
There are many states that have already do this and it isnt a disaster. That argument is the same as the wild west and bloodbath argument that anti-gunners use whenever CCW legislation is passed.
Its amazing that we use the same style arguments that anti-gunners use but we cry foul when they do it.
what is a disaster is that there are many felons in Florida who could meet all your conditions and they still have not had thier rights restored.
if he hasnt reformed he has not met the terms of his parole or probation so no vote for him and he is likely to end up incarcerated again so no vote.
There are many states that have already do this and it isnt a disaster. That argument is the same as the wild west and bloodbath argument that anti-gunners use whenever CCW legislation is passed.
Its amazing that we use the same style arguments that anti-gunners use but we cry foul when they do it.
what is a disaster is that there are many felons in Florida who could meet all your conditions and they still have not had thier rights restored.