Deaf Smith
New member
If good JHPs are 'illegal' then I tend to lean toward .45/.44 and SWCs.
Deaf
Deaf
Defensive round, when JHP is illegal
- Thread starter Torre
- Start date
Look into NOVX. They are on the brink of introducing a lot of new ammo with the bullet made by Polycase. I have shot some sample rounds and there is a slight decrease in felt recoil, a bit louder that factory rounds, but a whole lot faster moving. I ran a few rounds through a full size XDm and a CZ carbine with no feeding problems and accuracy was outstanding. I am in the process of getting enough ammo to test at our range in "ammo fussy" short barrel semi's.
Midway is starting to get them in stock and they also have a training round that duplicates the speed and weight of the SD rounds but at a whole lot lower cost giving you the opportunity to train with what you are going to shoot. At this time they are available only in 9mm.
I believe you will see a lot of very innovative products from these guys on display at the Shot Show 2018.
http://www.novxammo.com/
Midway is starting to get them in stock and they also have a training round that duplicates the speed and weight of the SD rounds but at a whole lot lower cost giving you the opportunity to train with what you are going to shoot. At this time they are available only in 9mm.
I believe you will see a lot of very innovative products from these guys on display at the Shot Show 2018.
http://www.novxammo.com/
O heir, you're a bit off there. A hollow point expands because the gunk in the cavity pushes outward and displaces the lead. A soft point can only expand by being crushed. It takes a lot of energy to crush lead and typical pistol velocities can't do it. If a soft point could perform as well, hollow points wouldn't be used.
A soft point bullet will generally perform no better than a plain pointed round nose lead bullet unless the lead is extremely soft.
The best non hollow point lead bullet has been the flat point semi wadcutters. It will be better than a round nose lead and better than a soft point if that sp fails to perform.
I have three things to consider.
Does the written law ban only hollow points, or all expanding ammo?
What are the consequences of carrying banned hollow points, and would those consequences be too much to risk?
If you do carry banned rounds and you are involved in a shooting, what criminal or civil consequences can you expect?
Many people presume that carrying non expanding bullets will cause their immediate demise, and that's nonsense. A bullet that expands has a better chance of disabling the target, but ordinary bullets work well too.
Before you get involved with tipped or flattening or other kinds of trick bullets, learn exactly what the code is and the possible consequences of carrying anything but standard fmj.
A soft point bullet will generally perform no better than a plain pointed round nose lead bullet unless the lead is extremely soft.
The best non hollow point lead bullet has been the flat point semi wadcutters. It will be better than a round nose lead and better than a soft point if that sp fails to perform.
I have three things to consider.
Does the written law ban only hollow points, or all expanding ammo?
What are the consequences of carrying banned hollow points, and would those consequences be too much to risk?
If you do carry banned rounds and you are involved in a shooting, what criminal or civil consequences can you expect?
Many people presume that carrying non expanding bullets will cause their immediate demise, and that's nonsense. A bullet that expands has a better chance of disabling the target, but ordinary bullets work well too.
Before you get involved with tipped or flattening or other kinds of trick bullets, learn exactly what the code is and the possible consequences of carrying anything but standard fmj.
To address the concern of penetration of barriers or people, there are essentially two forces involved. Compare a .45 cartridge that fires a slow and heavy non expanding bullet, this type of round will bulldoze its way through heavy barriers.
Take a 9nn 115 up as high as you can, and adding velocity won't increase the penetration as much as expected. There comes a point in all collisions where the penetration is actually reduced and the destruction of both bullet and target increase. Run a typical pistol bullet up to 5,000 fps and it will self destruct upon impact with a hard surface.
Summary, if you want to reduce danger from blow through, a light and fast bullet that is lightly built is better than a heavy, strongly built one at any similar velocities.
There are a lot of other factors involved.
Take a 9nn 115 up as high as you can, and adding velocity won't increase the penetration as much as expected. There comes a point in all collisions where the penetration is actually reduced and the destruction of both bullet and target increase. Run a typical pistol bullet up to 5,000 fps and it will self destruct upon impact with a hard surface.
Summary, if you want to reduce danger from blow through, a light and fast bullet that is lightly built is better than a heavy, strongly built one at any similar velocities.
There are a lot of other factors involved.
9mmSkeeter
New member
I second or third Federal's Guard Dog. Excellent penetration but not too much, and superior expansion.
Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies. I definitely will consider a revolver!
(4) The use of the following ammunition is prohibited for civilian purposes:
1) gas pistol and gas revolver cartridges containing neuroparalytic substances or substances which induce skin damage, general intoxication or choking and which may cause damage to health to the extent where medical attention is required to eliminate the consequences of exposure;
2) armour-piercing ammunition, which means a firearm cartridge the bullet of which has an armour-piercing hard core;
3) ammunition with explosive projectiles, which means a firearm cartridge the bullet of which contains a charge which explodes upon impact with an obstruction;
4) ammunition with incendiary projectiles, which means a firearm cartridge the bullet of which contains a substance which ignites upon impact with an obstruction;
5) pistol or revolver cartridges with a hollow-pointed bullet;
6) ammunition for particularly dangerous weapons. (this refers to military weapons)
1. You can't get JHP anywhere legally 2. I would surely never see my gun again, or be able to buy one in the future, at the very least.
Thanks for all the replies. I definitely will consider a revolver!
(4) The use of the following ammunition is prohibited for civilian purposes:
1) gas pistol and gas revolver cartridges containing neuroparalytic substances or substances which induce skin damage, general intoxication or choking and which may cause damage to health to the extent where medical attention is required to eliminate the consequences of exposure;
2) armour-piercing ammunition, which means a firearm cartridge the bullet of which has an armour-piercing hard core;
3) ammunition with explosive projectiles, which means a firearm cartridge the bullet of which contains a charge which explodes upon impact with an obstruction;
4) ammunition with incendiary projectiles, which means a firearm cartridge the bullet of which contains a substance which ignites upon impact with an obstruction;
5) pistol or revolver cartridges with a hollow-pointed bullet;
6) ammunition for particularly dangerous weapons. (this refers to military weapons)
1. You can't get JHP anywhere legally 2. I would surely never see my gun again, or be able to buy one in the future, at the very least.
Kreyzhorse
New member
I'd carry FMJ and deposit a lot of them if needed.
If I lived in a place that required me to carry with an empty chamber, I'd be looking for a Makarov and an EFA-2 holster (since the OP's situation is the one it was designed for):
Russian Military EFA-2K Russian Original Self Load Holster by EFA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KYVG5C6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_sVTgAbF801G8E
The pistol is held in the holster with an empty chamber; when you draw, you push the grip down through the holster, while the slide is held in place, chambering a round.
It's not ideal, but it's definitely better than drawing and then racking the slide (and it's a one-hand operation). The downside is that it's only available for the Makarov as far as I know (which isn't the worst, I suppose; they're great, reliable guns). There was an outfit making them for Glocks, but their website appears to be defunct now...
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/17/spains-automatic-holster/
Regarding the ammunition, I'll throw in another recommendation for rounds made with the non-expanding fluted bullets (Polycase ARX or Lehigh Extreme Defender) if you can find them where you are.
The flutes do slow the bullet almost as quickly as a fully-expanded hollow-point. There's some debate as to whether they're as effective at damaging tissue as an HP round, but if overpenetration vs. FMJ rounds is your primary concern, that shouldn't matter much.
From a penetration standpoint, the ARX are probably better; the bullet is so light that it takes much less energy transfer to slow it down, and the big flutes seem like they'd transfer a lot of energy fast.
On the other hand, to my eye, the Lehigh bullet looks more like a traditional solid slug, so it might be easier to defend in a legal situation.
Hope you find something that works for you!
Russian Military EFA-2K Russian Original Self Load Holster by EFA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KYVG5C6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_sVTgAbF801G8E
The pistol is held in the holster with an empty chamber; when you draw, you push the grip down through the holster, while the slide is held in place, chambering a round.
It's not ideal, but it's definitely better than drawing and then racking the slide (and it's a one-hand operation). The downside is that it's only available for the Makarov as far as I know (which isn't the worst, I suppose; they're great, reliable guns). There was an outfit making them for Glocks, but their website appears to be defunct now...
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/17/spains-automatic-holster/
Regarding the ammunition, I'll throw in another recommendation for rounds made with the non-expanding fluted bullets (Polycase ARX or Lehigh Extreme Defender) if you can find them where you are.
The flutes do slow the bullet almost as quickly as a fully-expanded hollow-point. There's some debate as to whether they're as effective at damaging tissue as an HP round, but if overpenetration vs. FMJ rounds is your primary concern, that shouldn't matter much.
From a penetration standpoint, the ARX are probably better; the bullet is so light that it takes much less energy transfer to slow it down, and the big flutes seem like they'd transfer a lot of energy fast.
On the other hand, to my eye, the Lehigh bullet looks more like a traditional solid slug, so it might be easier to defend in a legal situation.
Hope you find something that works for you!