Defensive round, when JHP is illegal

T

Torre

Inactive
Hi forumers,

This is my first post

I live in a country that permits concealed carry and self-defense, but unfortunately hollow points are illegal, as well as carrying a gun with one in the chamber (except revolvers).

I've been trying to look for 'the next best thing' to JHP as a carry/home defense round, but I'd like to know what would you folks recommend, and maybe point me towards some ammo that is a good self defense round but not categorized as a hollow point.

The only ones I've been able to find readily in stores here is this Fiocchi Top Defense 'Black Mamaba' FMJ, which is a very light (100 grain) and fast truncated cone bullet, with a Teflon jacketed lead core.

Fiocchi%209mm%20Black%20Mamba-500x500.jpg


And this standard 124 grain Soft Point from Sellier & Bellot. From what I have understood Soft Points don't expand at pistol velocity very well?

632dc37e0f909f4566bd614a8bf4861e_1.jpg


My gun is a Glock 17FS.

Thank you!
 
Look into Federal Guard Dog or Corbon Power ball. Both of these are non hollow point,but are expanding self defense ammo. Another might be the Glaser safety slug. These have a polymer tip with shot inside.

Hope this helps.
 
Federal EFMJ - Expanding Full Metal Jacket - might serve, if it is still actually available, I have not seen it in stock recently.
It has a plastic ball inside the jacket that flattens on impact, causing the bullet to expand like a rivet.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...-9mm-luger-efmj-105-grain-20-rounds?a=1154041

The current attempts at a more effective bullet without hollowpoint include the Ruger ARX/Polycase
http://www.downrange.tv/blog/ruger-arx-ammunition/36155/https://www.inceptorammo.com/
and the Lehigh Defense.
https://www.lehighdefense.com/products/9mm-luger-p-90gr-xtreme-defense-ammunition?variant=4431999236

I don't know if these are in worldwide distribution yet.

If not, the original 1902 9mm load was a truncated cone and the USAF studied the design again in 1980 in an effort to get more impact from a full jacketed bullet.

There was a law enforcement agency here that used softpoint bullets to avoid bad publicity about those dangerous hollowpoints. It did not work very well and they finally modernized. By then, nobody cared.
 
You may want to take a look at bullets with an Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ) Here's a link to ballistic gelatin test results from a small 9mm pistol where four of five Federal Guard Dog bullets expanded like hollow points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRba48Qxg7E.

Added: tranders and Jim Watson beat me to it. :)
 
"...Soft Points don't expand at pistol velocity..." If an HP will expand, so will an SP. HP's require velocity to expand reliably. Mind you, it really makes no difference whether it's an HP, SP, FMJ or a cast bullet. They'll all do nicely.
"...Federal EFMJ..." Loaded in their Guard Dog line. "Filled with an expanding blue polymer."
 
In addition to the good advice above you can also consider going with a heavier bullet.

Buffalo Bore produces their well reviewed "Outdoorsman" 147 gr. load. With a lead flat point bullet.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...-147-grain-hard-cast-lead-flat-nose-box-of-20

Federal produces a truncated cone 147 gr. bullet that does about 1000 fps they say.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...m-luger-147-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-50

Fiocchi produces a 158 gr. pill in ball.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...ubsonic-158-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-50

There are quite a number of options available these days.

tipoc
 
If they are legal and available there, Hornady Critical Defense has been catching on a bit over here stateside. They are another brand with a soft point (polymer in their case). Tests I have seen have been pretty positive.
 
Not knowing how the S&B 9mm sp perform, I would look at a flat nose bullet or something that had a large medplat. I also have not seen EFMJ in stock for a while...I wonder if they are still in production.
 
The Fiocchi Black Mamba is a good choice.

But then any 9mm round is going to be adequate for self-defense. It is a pervasive myth that the only adequate self-defense round is one so powerful it will break the assailant's neck if it hits him on the little finger.

It is also a myth that soft point ammunition doesn't expand well at pistol velocities. Whether the bullet expands all depends on its construction. How hard is the lead, how thick is the jacket, how is it formed, etc. It is easy to build a soft point that will expand nicely at 850 fps (260 mps) and it's equally easy to build a soft point that will hardly expand at all at 1,200 fps (370 mps).
 
Interesting to hear gun laws from all over the world... very few make sense, its like they needed to do something... anything, but something...

In my country hollow points are not ilegal but I prefer not to use them because cops are always giving trouble for them...So very interested on this post.
 
Torre said:
Hi forumers,

This is my first post

I live in a country that permits concealed carry and self-defense, but unfortunately hollow points are illegal, as well as carrying a gun with one in the chamber (except revolvers).
Click to expand...

Estonia, by any chance? There's a guy from Estonia on TFL, who's mentioned limitations like that.

Not being able to carry chambered is a big deal, and would make me inclined to carry a revolver. (That, BTW, sounds like a law made by folks who don't know guns well.)
 
+1

No question I would carry a revolver vs. carrying an unloaded pistol.

I struggled with Glock, no safety and I carried it for the first month effectively unloaded. A good holster made all the difference for me.

Are you going to have time to rack the slide??? Maybe..........however I am not going to take that chance.
 
9mm NATO spec ball. Just learn to shoot and make a habit of training for CNS hits.

Pistol ammo sucks. Federal HST/Gold Dot/PDXranger etc. is good ammo but is certainly not a cruise missile vs ball. In the internet age we get hung up on hardware vs software. High end HP ammo is good stuff and provides advantages beyond terminal ballistics but being loaded up with a mag of NATO spec 9mm ball certainly doesn’t make you unarmed and throwing nerf darts.

I always chuckle at these threads. We are all gun geeks and want the best high speed low drag stuff we can get (present poster just as guilty) but at the end of the day there are millions of folks with an old Webley revolver or SAA or Taurus or .380 PPK or any number of other arms loaded up with either the cheapest ball ammo around or ammo made a century ago and they have in many cases defended themselves just fine.

A whole heap of good and bad people fell to .45 and 9mm hardball. People haven’t changed all that much physically.

Live your life in a lawful way, don’t rub another man’s rhubarb so to speak and don’t flaunt your wealth and chances are you will never have to concern yourself with ammo quality. God willing.
 
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JSP - handgun ammo - is the pits.

It expands, but, the expansion is so unpredictable it's useless.

I guess it beats a FMJ. but, given the choice, I'd rather have just about anything else.

Cast lead beats a JSP hands down any day of the week.
 
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