Defensive Bolt Gun?

If you're talking about having a firearm for constitutional purposes ("Security of a free state... well regulated militia" etc.) then a bolt gun is a fine choice, especially in something like .223 or .308.

For more personal reasons (defense inside the home, natural disasters etc.) I'm sure a bolt gun could be made to work, although a shorter length, quicker bolt throw and detachable magazines would be made priority over power and range.

Really, though, with so many other options in the market it would have to be way down the list for me. Pump action rifles or shotguns, in short barrels, make much more sense. Also the lever action. Something in a pistol caliber like .357 or .44 magnum would be good with a quick follow up time.

Really, it seems to me that questions like this can sometimes be the result of objectifying defensive firearms as toys and their use as such can lend to fantasies. Nothing wrong with having hobbies or enjoying gun ownership just for the fun aspect but there should be some clear delineation.
 
dakota.potts said:
If you're talking about having a firearm for constitutional purposes ("Security of a free state... well regulated militia" etc.) then a bolt gun is a fine choice, especially in something like .223 or .308.

For more personal reasons (defense inside the home, natural disasters etc.) I'm sure a bolt gun could be made to work, although a shorter length, quicker bolt throw and detachable magazines would be made priority over power and range.

Really, though, with so many other options in the market it would have to be way down the list for me. Pump action rifles or shotguns, in short barrels, make much more sense. Also the lever action. Something in a pistol caliber like .357 or .44 magnum would be good with a quick follow up time.

Really, it seems to me that questions like this can sometimes be the result of objectifying defensive firearms as toys and their use as such can lend to fantasies. Nothing wrong with having hobbies or enjoying gun ownership just for the fun aspect but there should be some clear delineation.
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Cool. I forgot about those pump action Remington .223 and .308 Police rifles. Very cool.
 
briandg said:
I was in a thread that involved a guy who was buying nagants by the dozen for apocalypse defense. Yes, he was stockpiling dozens of bolt action rifles for use against well armed marauders, who would almost certainly be using better weapons, either purchased or stolen.
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Back in the day when Mosins was 50-60 dollars and ammo was dirt cheap there was a lot of talk about using them in such a manner.

I think everyone realized it was not ideal but if you needed to outfit people on the cheap it had merit.

For 500 dollars you could easily arm 6 people with fairly powerful if not large and somewhat slow rifle.

It was better than nothing and at distance still quite formidable.
 
there you go. If the neighbor comes knocking, with a tale of woe, how the zombies/pod people/mutant ninja poodles etc are eating his cows and he's worried about his family, AND THEY"RE COMING THIS WAY!!! and he needs a gun, he gets a Yugo 48 and a bandolier of Turkish 8mm to go with it. (at most)...(or an MN 91, or a beat up Arisaka...etc)

he's not getting one of my GOOD guns, no matter how desperate he is, unless he manning my wall. :rolleyes: GOOD neighbors don't need you to supply them with a gun or two. :D

They will beg for ammo, though...:p
 
Nope, no bolt actions for home defense. Too much power, typically, although I do have several that are not terribly powerful. If I need a gun, a 1911 is carrying size, and not too terribly difficult to get into action in confined areas.
primarily the ability of the bad guy to have a second to grab it while you cycle the bolt.
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LOL! Yep, Mr Bad Guy, go ahead and grab that barrel there. OK! Now watch for the flash!

I can cycle and fire my M98 pretty darn fast! Presumably, you would keep the rifle pointed at the intruder, and grabbing a loaded rifle from the muzzle end can be unhealthy. And if an intruder is close enough to grab your rifle, introduce them to the butt stock.
 
For a while, I had a nice No5mk1 Enfield Jungle Carbine. I liked that Carbine a lot...it was short, light, and had great aperture sights. The bolt is very fast to operate. I'd say my k31 is faster, but not by much.
So, yes, for a while, I had it loaded with commercial soft points, and felt well armed.
 
While we're on the subject, wonder if there would be a market for loaded down defensive ammo for bolt guns?

Something like a 110 grains hollowpoint at 1800 FPS or something loaded for .303 Brit, 7.62x54mmR, or .308 Win?

They could call it Winchester/Remigton/Federal "Bolt Defense" ammo or something? Something designed to rapidly expand and break up. Probably wouldn't cycle most semi-autos but wouldn't be a problem in a bolt or lever gun.

Just thinking out load since many say most bolts are overpowered?
 
Joe, you're right. It's better than nothing, and if you have to arm twenty deadbeats who show up at your home when the world goes all poopy, a nagant and 500 rounds is better than any of the worse alternatives. For almost any other purpose, even a used $250 870 twelve gauge might be better.

Remember, any roving gangs are likely to be carrying stolen guns. They are going to ditch their NEF single shots as soon as they backshoot someone with an AK. There is some wisdom in the argument of firepower.

Five ordinary guys with bolts are confined to a home full of food, and five guys with ar rifles want it. God only knows how it will end. It would be better if the guys in the home could fire a burst into a brush area, rather than trying to get lucky.
 
Twelve, you'd have to do it yourself. It would not be difficult at all to create a .308 round with 110 grain varmint or small game bullets that would work at sub-2,000 fps against people at 100 yard or so ranges. The key would be getting bullets that would perform.

I'd prefer the extra weight of a 125.
 
briandg said:
Twelve, you'd have to do it yourself.
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Yea, it was hard enough to get 10mm loads that weren't just lukewarm .40... hell is going to freeze over for a manufacturer to do one of those loads for any of those cartridges. And that includes .308. Shops would have to give it away when most people want the power out of a .308.
 
Screwball said:
Must live in a bad area with birds if you worry about them with home defense...
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OK

I'm inclined to think that a handy, short, bolt rifle like an MVP or a Scout in (.223/5.56) would indeed be satisfactory. If we operate under the principal that we're carrying a handgun anyhow ( you are, aren't you?) then the really close, sudden and ugly confrontations have an immediate response tool at the ready. All else gets addressed with the carbine, if I know it's happening, or am inclined to believe so. Carbines hit harder, and I can shoot them bettter.

I believe the shotgun has it's place,but it's a narrow one.
 
We can imagine scenarios that require dozens of different weapons, the best we can do is predict and prepare.

Doom tells it all. I used my shotgun exclusively, and every once in a while, a fifty foot tall, bulletproof cyberdemon would pop out of a portal. I would swear like a sailor, drop my shotgun, and thank god that I had my rocket launcher slung on my back.

Carry the scout rifle, but have a Beretta bolstered for when you step into "empty" bunkers.

Leave the scout gun at home for trips to Kroger.
 
"...a 7lb CLUB..." SEVEN? Quit using a hunting rifle and step up to a proper battle rifle, like a No. 1 Lee-Enfield with the bayonet fixed. Nine and a quarter pounds of pointy, GIT!. snicker.
Like everything else use of a rifle will depend on the circumstances. The issue in town is excessive penetration with any rifle cartridge, pistol calibres included. End result of an errant shot is you being imprisoned for manslaughter .
"...straight pull British and American rifles of WWI to WWII..." Neither country used a straight pull bolt action in either war. The Ross Rifles the CEF started out with were promptly discarded due to the things failing in field conditions.
"...reason the U.S. won that war..." The U.S. did not win W.W. II. That is a myth. Just like the U.S. in 1942(W.W. II started in 1939) being a nation of riflemen. Most people in the U.S. were urban and never saw real firearm outside of movies before enlisting or being drafted.
 
There is only one ideal bolt action rifle for this: Lee Enfield. The action and magazine capacity are better than anything else out there.

Whether or not a high power (.30-06, .303, 8mm, etc.) can be safely used depends on the living situation. Large apartment block? Probably not a good idea. Other cases, maybe the angles are such that it's okay.

In general 5.56 is going to be good, which is consistent with the fact that patrol officers and SWAT teams use it.



While we're on the subject, wonder if there would be a market for loaded down defensive ammo for bolt guns?

Something like a 110 grains hollowpoint at 1800 FPS or something loaded for .303 Brit, 7.62x54mmR, or .308 Win?

They could call it Winchester/Remigton/Federal "Bolt Defense" ammo or something? Something designed to rapidly expand and break up. Probably wouldn't cycle most semi-autos but wouldn't be a problem in a bolt or lever gun.

Just thinking out load since many say most bolts are overpowered?
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The Hornady TAP 110 gr .308 round with its plastic tip would be sort of what you are wanting.
 
Suggesting a Lee Enfield as a home defense firearm...

You guys have fun with your fantasy. If you want to actually talk about reality, I'll come back.
 
I think people are only suggesting the Lee Enfield in the context of bolt action rifles. It's too long, too loud, too powerful, and too slow in firing to be ideal.

On the other hand it's one of the greatest combat rifles ever made and would more likely than not stop an intruder dead in his tracks.
 
They are suggesting the jungle carbine, mostly, and that is basically the original scout rifle, I believe. The real Enfield isn't a great idea within 100 feet, give or take. Super power, easy aiming, removable magazines, not so great firing rate, but good enough for farmers.

Even so, a snap shot on with 00 is pretty good. About a year ago I took my coach gun out practicing double shots at dual targets like cowboy shooters. There were two steel silhouettes at 100 yards. Every time I fired, coming from rest to shoulder and snapping at the two silhouettes I made a hit 100 yards, and rapid fire from improved cylinder barrels, I put at least one pellet into upper body. Self defense can be accomplished in many ways. Is police department used to have retired m14 rifles if the officer drove something bigger than a cruiser and worked outside of urban areas.
 
Are my aggressors competent, planned, multiple and determined? As in most cases I am more concerned about those issues than I am with what I might be using
 
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