Defending Against Gang Attack

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SEAL: Depending on what years you served, you probably went through S.C.A.R.S. training, especially in the early 90's. I went through S.C.A.R.S. material, and have rarely seen a more comprehensive and well rounded system. I still have a book and several VHS tapes on the system.

If you've been out for a while, you might be interested in knowing that Direct Action has expanded their material:

http://www.scars.com/SCARS/dacMain.jsp
 
Yes. The training is hard to find. A good Krav Maga instructor can teach a good deal on this.

That's exactly what I thought of at first. A good friend of mine is ex-ranger and also big into martial arts. He loaned me his Krav Maga DVD's not too long ago. Excellent, no-nonsense self defense. I've had a couple years Kenpo training and liked Krav Maga better. I just need to find someone to train with.

And remember to get your back up against a wall!
 
That was easy, thx capt! I'll check them out.

I was just in your neck of the woods a few weeks ago at Jefferson Lake SP doing some camping. Nice quiet place to go with the wife and dog. My dog isn't very social, so the fewer people around the better.
 
uh-oh

I love living in central America, because I am allowed to answer this thread with three simple words. Sawed Off Shotgun! :p
For those of you stuck back home in the states, I would save glock 17 in conjunction with a tomahawk. :D

I have had several mugging attempts (from groups of people) and agree with the previously made suggestion that gangs will many times (not always) lose heart after seeing a serious threat to their own lives.
 
The well choreographed fights on tv or in the dojo are cool to watch and perform but don't reflect reality. Five to six men attacking at once is virtually impossible to defend empty handed. If they get a hold of you or get you to the ground you are done. If 5 guys attacked at once with intent simply on grabbing you and tackling you......you are tackled. To generate real power, knockout power, you must plant. Plant even for a split second and you are caught. Miss with one blow and you are caught. Slip or slightly loose your footing and yep you are caught.

I have KO power in both hands, can grapple well, and can throw quality power kicks. That means doodly squat when bull rushed by a crowd. Multiple attackers and its time to run or draw and shoot.
 
Yeah the bird shot, bird shot, 45 colt, slug, 45 colt combo seems like it'd do the trick.

How's the recoil on the basic 410 shell?

If you're asking about the Judge, it's not bad at all...the Taurus "ribber grip" really soaks it up. It is, however, loud, especially at an indoor range. It sounds for real like most guns sound in movies. :eek:
 
Like most things around here, if you are coming to the internet to find out what to do to save your bacon from X, you are going to get responses ranging from "when I was in the SEALS/Special Forces, Delta, ad. nauseuam.." to "X% of real gang members WILL do this " to "Using the praying mantis style of defense..."
Look, go to training, get books, videos, etc. Practice. Most of what you hear, read on these forums is nonsense, and quite frankly, dangerous in its stupidity.

Your call, your bacon
 
Too bad we can't just shoot them.

5 or 6 men (gang bangers) attacking you constitutes a deadly thread and should receive a deadly response..........if you cannot escape or they don't stop.
 
If they've encircled me, they're operating from a pack mentality, and I would assume they're going to kill me and act accordingly.

I wouldn't wait for one of them to attack; rather, I would attack with maximum violence the moment one of them presented an attractive target.

Specifically, I'd make a thrusting downward kick with the bottom of my foot into a kneecap, intending to shatter it backwards. I'd crush genitals with my hands or feet. I'd rip out chunks of flesh with my teeth. I'd stick my index finger into eyesockets intent on touching brain. I'd use upward thrusts of my palm against a nose to shatter it, causing the most pain possible. I'd punch throats.

I realize this may sound "mall ninja," and listen: I'd probably still lose. However, I will not die without inflicting pain. I will cause maximum pain and damage until I fall unconscious.
 
Back up against a wall if possible.

Why should you do this? To keep them from flanking you?

Just asking because I've always heard the expression "his back was up against a wall" and it ususally is used to indicate someone being stuck with having to do something.
 
How is this for gang attack defense?
A friend has a 13 yr old son. He is rather small for his age. Also he looks more like 11 than 13. This gets him alot of harrassment from other boys his age in school. Kids can be very cruel. During one of these incidents 3 larger kids(bullies) had him cornered in the bathroom humiliating him and threating to kick is ass. As they converged on him with nothing in his hand but a spiral notebook he was scared to death in preparation for a beating. He then noticed that stuck in the spiraled wire of the notebook a #2 pencil which he pulled and proceeded to stab the first kid on him, then the other two as all had closed to within inches of him. Too bad for them.
This young man has never heard of Colonel Jeff Coopers seven Principles of Personal Defense, but he carried them out well- Alertness, Decisiveness, Aggressiveness, Speed, Coolness, Ruthlessness, and Surprise.
Most parents that hear of this seem as if they are alarmed by the young mans actions. "He stabbed 3 young boys". NO! "He defended himself against 3 bullies. I for one was impressed!
What do you think?
 
Been there..

Several years ago I was working a sports show in St. Louis. It was Jan. and got dark early. I was staying at the Sheraton Hotel across the street from the Cervantes Center and my van was in their parking lot. About 5:00PM, I went to my vehicle to get some advertising material.

As I rounded the rear of the van, I saw a gang of young blacks, 5 or 6 in number. On the ground there was a old geezer (read senior citizen) and these guys were beating the sh!t out of him. One guy had a aluminum baseball bat and swung it like a golf club hitting the old man in the face. Teeth, blood, and gore sprayed almost to my van 50 feet away.

When they spotted me, I did the only sane thing I could think of... I ran like a coward in the night. There was a cop directing traffic in the street between the hotel and the Cervantes Center. I approached him and was told in no uncertain terms that he was responsible for traffic and couldn't be bothered. After I insisted, he did get on his radio and asked for assistance. Fifteen minutes later a cop car did come by and found the victim... he was DOA.

Several hours later the police contacted me at the hotel and asked if I would identify one of the bad guys. Of course, I agreed. They had me look at a black individual that I would guess was probably at least 45 years old. The perps were in their teens! No way had I ever seen this guy before and that is exactly what I told the officers.

I was never contacted again and never found out if anyone was ever charged.

So much for life in the city.

Retreat, is not cowardice.
 
Fremmer said:
Quote:
Back up against a wall if possible.
Why should you do this? To keep them from flanking you?

Just asking because I've always heard the expression "his back was up against a wall" and it ususally is used to indicate someone being stuck with having to do something.

Fremmer, sorry I didn't reply earlier, as I must have missed your post.

In my response to the OP on page 1 of this thread, I was the first of two different people who suggested that you get your back against a wall. There is a good reason.

As part of my background, I was a close combat instructor.

I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but we used something called a RED MAN SUIT.

Actually we had 12 of them.

Redmanbg.gif


There are plenty of replies on this thread, each one as valid as the other. As for my opinion, I lived for 2.5 years on a mountain, training against other extremely fit, agressive Marines. The techniques associated with multiples were practiced as often as 3 to 5 times per week.

The RED MAN SUITS (they were new on the market at that time) allowed us to REALLY WAIL on each other at 75% to 90% of our strength. What this means is that the training you get (while you and your partners are wearing these) is as close to the real thing as you can get.

First as a recipient of training in this area, and then later as a trainer myself, I learned that no matter how many attackers there are, if you can get into a corner, you can basically take away the advantage that comes with numbers. As long as you are agressive, fit and more violent than your attacker, you can stay standing and fight off one after another- at least until you reach physical exhaustion. It is much harder to attack than it is to defend. The key, more often than not was sheer brutality, and STAYING on your feet. Once you go down, you are done for.

The concept of taking away the enemies' numerical advantage is, of course, nothing new. The Roman Legions used it against the so-called "barbarians" of Germany, frequently making stands against numerically superior forces. Recently a movie was made about the Spartans, and their "300" warriors, standing against tens of thousands of Persians. How did they do it? Force the attackers to funnel, so that they could not take advantage of their numbers.

It is possible to defeat numerically superior forces if you know what you're doing. Don't let anyone talk you out of trying. While your chances of getting crushed are much greater than a fair fight, a few well placed eye-gouges, vicious heel stomps, and the spirit of a mad pit bull combined with a few other skills, and your chances increase dramatically.
 
Years ago, I survived a gang attack. I was 15, the 5 or 6 of them were 17-18 and much bigger than me and were lightly armed with sticks and whatnot. I survived, because I correctly identified the ringleader, who had six inches and nearly 100 pounds on me, and attacked him by head-butting him in the solar plexus, once he punched me in the jaw. I continued the attack past the point of sensibility, literally beating his face in with my forehead, and crushing his testicles with my hands. I believe I bit him once or twicet, too.:o I ignored his buddies, who were getting in each others' way trying to kick and beat me with fairly stout sticks. Once the leader was eliminated, I broke my clinch, and broke through the circle, getting distance. I'm not that fast, and kind of hurt by now, so I backpedalled, keeping them from surrounding me. I prolonged the conflict long enough to allow a good samaritan to interrupt the attack, where the rest of the kids fled.

Going berzerk is probably the only way to survive a gang who wants to harm you. Being willing to take physical damage in order to hurt someone and escape is also a requirement. Not getting yourself in that situation to begin with would be the best way, but best-laid plans don't always work.
 
For all you guys closing in on 40 or perhaps older who are reading this. Go find a heavy bag and hit it with 20 or so FULL POWER SHOTS. Let me know how you feel afterward.

I frequently throw 10 to 15 full power three punch combos from right handed and southpaw stances. Thats 60 to 90 punches........no kicks, elbows, knees, grappling....just punches. You will be surprised at how much energy is zapped.
 
120mm said:
...I ignored his buddies, who were getting in each others' way trying to kick and beat me with fairly stout sticks. Once the leader was eliminated, I broke my clinch, and broke through the circle,...

You instinctively executed some of the principles needed to survive (or at least increase your chances of surviving) an engagement with multiple attackers. I noticed you described the other guys getting in each other's way. I also noticed that you described yourself "breaking through the circle". In so doing, you took away much of the effect of numerical advantage. Well done. I'm sure those lessons will stay with you forever.


threegun said:
For all you guys closing in on 40 or perhaps older who are reading this. Go find a heavy bag and hit it with 20 or so FULL POWER SHOTS. Let me know how you feel afterward.

I frequently throw 10 to 15 full power three punch combos from right handed and southpaw stances. Thats 60 to 90 punches........no kicks, elbows, knees, grappling....just punches. You will be surprised at how much energy is zapped.


If you want to up the ante, get a sparring partner for 30 seconds of all-out-destruction. The idea is to go full bore 100% effort with your partner for 30 seconds non stop (perhaps not your FIRST time, but after you've built up). Attempt to rip your partners head off with power punches, and have him do the same to you. Of course, you should use regulation gloves and headgear, as well as a mouthpiece. This kind of training will give you the follow through and inoculation to interpersonal violence needed to survive in a real conflict. After a few sessions of this, you'll learn to keep a clear head even when being punched and rammed with shoulders. You'll also learn how to assemble a combination of punches that works. Establish a ground rule that the match ends instantly upon "first blood", or if either of you demonstrates any dizziness, i.e. "out on your feet".

When you get to run hard like this, try stringing six or eight 30-second rounds, seperated by 1 minute of rest in between each round. But be warned, training like this will get your testosterone levels sky high, making you generally more aggressive, meaner, hungrier, and more confident.




Other principles to live by:

1.) Always look for a weapon of opportunity(improvised) if you are unarmed;

-Weapons may include chairs, broomsticks, pool cues, large smooth rocks (about the size of an apple), tools, shovels, etc.

2.) If you can DRAW your weapon, and you are already grappling, certainly attempt to fire, but don't count on the weapon discharging. Grappling and jostling may have caused the slide to move, unseating a chambered round. In such cases, use your weapon as a CQB weapon, and use the grip like a mallet to crush clavicles, temples, and any other thin, bony surface. Be wary of the top of the skull, as it is very hard- unless you have a protrusion on the bottom of your grips. Also use the muzzle like a bore-punch on the eyes and nose of your opponent. These soft targets have no natural protection, and even in case of partial strikes will reduce your opponent's ability to see clearly- giving you another advantage.

3.) Fight "DIRTY". Your opponents, in attacking you as a group, are trying to kill you. Nothing is off limits anymore. Imagine yourself a mongoose in a den of rattlesnakes. Every part of your body is a weapon. As mentioned before, all bets are off. Bite like a crocodile, head butt, use the cutting edge of your heels, gouge out their eyes, and be as brutal and merciless as possible. Your life depends on it. Create a "Sphere of Nastiness" around you, in which anything that enters gets eye-gouged, bitten, spit upon, and toe-stomped. Make them want to GET AWAY from you. In the melee, use low kicks; high kicks will get you swept and tackled. If you are being charged at, the number one way to stop an attacker's advance is a front kick to the attacker's hips as he is advancing. This will stop them every time, and I've seen it work against 245lbs + professional fighters. After stopping their charge, welcome them into your "Sphere of Nastiness" with a proper greeting.
 
If you want to up the ante, get a sparring partner for 30 seconds of all-out-destruction.

A few years back a coworker friend (much younger and bigger btw) and I started to wrestle. I was holding my own quite well until about 30 seconds into the event. Up until my complete collapse from sheer exhaustion at the 30second mark I could have choked him out or applied an arm bar but it was just for fun. He was amazed at my strenght and at how fast it disappeared LOL. I was giving up 50 pounds or so and 10 years.

At my age and endurance levels fighting hand to hand with more than one man is no longer an option.
 
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