Def 1300 'out of battery' issue?

[Lee Lapin]

Doc,

After you remove the barrel and pull the trigger plate assembly out, turn the action bottom up and look down inside. You'll see the bottom of the bolt and action bar assembly.

The action bar assembly is held to the bolt by the action bridge screw that you see on the right of center of the bolt, looking from the butt to the muzzle.

Remove the action bridge screw, turn the receiver back right side up and slide the forearm forward. The bolt and action bar assembly will slide out the front of the receiver with the bolt going out through the space where the barrel fits.

BE CAREFUL with the bolt assembly riding on the action bars- the plate the bolt is sitting on was freed up when you took out that screw. That plate, aka the slide bridge, has an extension that goes up around the back of the bolt to retain the spring loaded firing pin. Let the slide bridge get away from you and you will NASA the firing pin off somewhere inaccessible. Not fun...

It's pretty intuitive to get the firing pin out of the bolt. Then pull the bolt head forward until you can see the bolt cam pin at about the midpoint in its track. Line the cam pin up with the access hole in the top of the bolt slide and drift it out with a pin punch.

Note that the bolt cam pin retains the extractor spring and washer as well as the bolt head in the bolt slide. Note carefully the orientation of the bolt head and the cam pin when you remove them, because it's critical to get them in the correct orientation when you reinstall them- putting the bolt head back in upside down won't help things. Ditto putting the cam pin in backwards.

With the cam pin removed the extractor spring and washer can be removed from the back of the bolt slide. With the spring pressure off the extractor it can be removed easily from the bolt head.

You'll need a tool like a larger roll pin punch to reinstall the extractor spring and washer. The 'nipple' on the roll pin punch will help hold the washer and spring and center them up. It's a fairly hefty spring and can be a three handed job getting everything back in if it doesn't want to cooperate.

You might want to let a gunsmith do this if you don't have the tools and confidence to tackle it yourself.

See http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/win1200.htm for an exploded drawing.

hth,

lpl

 

[Roamingdoc83]

Many thanks Lee.
I will take another look but didn't see much on the underside of the 1300's bolt carrier that appeared to allow access...
I know I didn't have to unscrew anything to allow the bolt / bar assembly to come forward. I'll check again.
Many thanks.
Doc

 

[Roamingdoc83]

FINAL UPDATE - good data

First, I'm just adding to this thread as it was the original where I brought up the issue - didn't want to start one that was not associated.

Re-reading you will see that my Win. Def. 1300 18 1/2 shotgun seemed to be malfunctioning "in that it would not extract the empty hull" regularly and in normal use. The ONE MODIFICATION to the shotgun was the removal of the Winchester stock, replacing it with a Knoxx Recoil Reducing Adjustable stock -
[http://tinyurl.com/d2wjnb].

I had NOT fired many rounds thru the shotgun in its stock form! I have not used a shotgun since the '70s (yes, that is right, I'm old) and this was the first shotgun I 'owned' (vs being provided with). A shoulder injury was the 'reason' for the recoil reducer.

These are facts as I perceive them:
1. The Knoxx really reduces recoil - at least 50% and perhaps much higher.
2. The 1300 has an 'inertia-assisted pump' action called, I believe, Speed pump.
3. The 1300 is an aluminum framed shotgun, light, easy to hold.

I noted almost immediately that I was not getting reliable 'extraction' of the empty hull (previous entries in this thread describe this issue so I won't repeat it) and I was trying to determine the exact cause 'and' find a fix that allowed the retention of the recoil reduction.

The 1300 Defender that I have "does" work perfectly... IF I PUT THE butt of the shotgun (with the KNOXX installed, etc) against a stiff object (I used a cemented roof brace at the range, 4x4) - placing the butt against the 4x4, round present, pull the trigger - the Speed Pump (or whatever) brings the slide back WITHOUT assistance "AND" [in this case] EJECTS the empty hull!!
Yes, automatically, without ME TOUCHING the slide, period. Repeatable! I performed this test five times with different rounds (00B, #6, #4, etc) - amazing recoil assistance.

I found that "if" I place my hand upon the slide and exert "much" hold upon it (at least in the Knoxx present configuration) "I" seem to interfere with the inertia based 'assisted pump action' and DO NOT GET A CLEAN EXTRACTION and, consequently, a failure to eject and load (new round cannot enter chamber with the old hull present!;^). My limited experience with shotguns seems to recall that "firmly holding" the slide was an approved method of control?

If I gently or lightly hold the slide, fire the shotgun normally otherwise, the slide DOES come back bringing the empty hull... it ejects it! Automatically or just about automatically - I then have to bring BACK the slide another 3/4 inch or 1 inch BEFORE slamming it forward with a new round. I can, in that manner, fire repeated rounds without failure. But the TOUCH is almost a 'finesse' and we all know that there is NOTHING finesse about shotguns.

I have determined that the extractor works.
I have determined that the ejection of hull works.

I am trying to determine the best training method to 'develop' the touch required to reliable work the pump action 'along' with the assisted action and do so with all types of shot/rounds.

IF YOU have or are contemplating having a Def 1300 with the Knoxx recoil reducer, you may want to consider this issue. If you currently own a 1300 with a Knoxx recoil reducer on it, then please add your experiences and solutions (if needed). Many thanks.

Doc