Def 1300 'out of battery' issue?

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Roamingdoc83

Inactive
I hope I'm not visiting a beaten subject... but search didn't answer my ?

Winchester Defender 1300 - perhaps the 870 beats it or maybe a Moss but I bought it new for $159 and have made one mod > Knoxx recoil reducing stock.
I mentioned the recoil reducer as I wonder if a shotgun can be limp wristed and could that cause the below issue?

I note when the shotgun fires it 'automatically' opens the breech or jumps into an 'out of battery' condition. Research found this: "The 1300 uses a rotating bolt lockup, similarish to the AR-15 system. The recoil automatically unlocks the bolt, and if you fire the gun one handed, it will eject the shell on its own."

I don't know 'if' it will eject the shell but what SEEMS to be happening is the shell is not being extracted. I do a lot of smithing on my pistols and know what an extractor on them looks like but have no experience on a shotgun.

"If" the shell is not coming back with this rotating and automated unlocking of the bolt, ejecting it... well, what does that mean mechanically and what do I need to look for? Thanks very much.
 
The 1300 definitely has an extractor if that is what you're asking (part #74 on the Brownell's schematic). Sound like it needs to be checked for proper function. The 1300 (aka "Speed Pump") is generally thought of as a solid and reliable shotgun and the Defender should be up to any SD/HD task. The extractor is the typical "hook" on the left side of the bolt.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=355/schematicsdetail/Model_120_1300

http://www.schiessen-erzgebirge.de/Blueprints/winchester1300_0001.jpg
 
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Not really. I am not asking if it 'has' an extractor. I am asking 'why' the hull/casing is not being extracted in the manner I think it should "and" what does the extractor look like exactly and up close.

I've seen those two schematics but in looking at my extractor there is a slight decreasing angle on it and, while there are no rough edges and it is a new gun, I want to be sure that is designed and not damage.

Thanks very much.
 
Sounds like your extractor is worn, or gummed up. In either case I'd probably take the bolt apart and clean it, and take a close look at the extractor hook.

The extractor is the hook shaped part that goes in the right side of the rotating bolt "head".
 

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Right. The extractor 'is' on the right side. The 'edge' or the 'hooked' portion (on my 1300) seems to have a slightly "wider" portion on the down or lower side and it tapers to about 2/3's width (the hook thickness) on the upper side. On many of my pistols the 'extractor' is the same width across, the edge has no difference in size from either side.

But the more I research this the more I am wondering about "why" the casing or hull "isn't" being "snatched" by the extractor. The shotgun is new, clean and has only about 50 rounds through it over the past two years.

Well, weird. The chamber does 'slip itself open' after firing as it is designed to do, just doesn't grab the fired hull and flip it out... jamming it forward (closing it) will EASILY and PERFECTLY engage the hull and bring it back for a proper reload of the next shell.

Thanks.
 
i have the exact same shotgun setup as you described and have been shooting it for some time...its called a speed pump for a reason, the action is smooth and easy, once fired i can hold it upright and the pump almost falls into open action on its own...

the knoxx will allow the barrel and pump assy to move backwards around two inches when fired, your forward hand will follow the pump backwards(it has no choice), but when the pump/barrel returns your forward hand will stay where its at, almost reloading automatically...

practice with this setup and you will get the hang of it, when i fire it all i have to do is move the pump forward bit to lock in the next shot, you can get near autoloader speeds with practice, fun fun fun:)

good luck

cheers
 
I'm a little confused.

How well does it function when you hold onto the slide and cycle it like an ordinary pump shotgun?

Is your complaint only that it doesn't automatically eject if fired one handed?

If it cycles well manually, and doesn't eject if fired one handed, I don't think there is a problem. If the automatic ejection is dependent on recoil, it's possible that the Knoxx stock will soak up enough recoil to prevent it. It's also possible that the shotgun isn't broken in yet.
 
jammin1237 !
Yup, that is exactly what it is doing "but" doesn't bring back the hull/casing on every such 'opening'... SHOULD it? Does yours?

It opens just as you describe but the hull is not grasped or extracted (generally) and I have to push the slide closed to 'pick up' the casing "then" slam it back to bring it out and load a new round... I have to practice with this and see if it works upon review. Maybe take a slow mo movie of it...

Thanks
Doc
 
kozak6
Thanks...
I've just above described the problem... in that it "doesn't" seem to bring the hull/casing out when it slides partially open as 'jammin' mentions.

The extractor looks okay, my issue with shape is to determine if a portion of it is somehow broken off as it is NOT flat across the 'edge' or grabbing edge.

Thanks.
 
You understand it is always difficult to diagnose problems over the net. But, I guess to finally try to answer your question...yes, the extractor on the 1300 should grab the hull, pull it back and, as the base of the hull hits the ejector, it is thrown from the receiver...most of this you know, I'm sure. So...it does sound like an extractor problem. Broken hook, broken spring...something. But it "could" also be an ejector problem. Unless someone else here has other/better advice, I say take it to a good gunsmith and have him take a look at it. It should be a relatively easy fix.
 
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Oh, it's so it's failing to extract.

Have you tried different ammo? Some of the cheaper ammo has a steel head, which is notorious for causing extraction issues.

Have you cleaned the shotgun yet? It's possible that preservative oil applied at the factory might have dried out a bit in the chamber over the years, and is causing the issue. Give the chamber a good cleaning and see if it helps.

As an above poster mentioned, it could be an extractor problem. Another possibility is a rough chamber.
 
Roaming, i hope you covered the basics first, clean shotgun and action and all the rest of the basics...next the speed pump came in 20 and 12 gauge i hope your using the right shells for the gun(just checking) 2 3/4 to 3 " shells in the right gauge... next load the shotgun and cycle the rounds with out firing and see if you can cycle all rounds through the action(please do this safely!)...if the rounds exit properly during non-fire cycling most likely you are trying to force the pump forward during the shot...if they dont cycle properly, you would want to get this checked out by you trusted local gunsmith...

let us know what you find, knowledge is the thirst that cant be quenched!

cheers
 
Greatly appreciate all the good ideas and response...

I have cleaned it... slightly oiled or lubricated (very slightly) with a good product.

I 'will' run some different rounds thru it to test the possibility of it being 'selective'... I have been using 2 3/4 00 Magnum rounds (that's why the Knoxx recoil reducer ;^) but "they are" a quantity buy through a city department. I wonder if they are steel head(ed). I've some Winchester #6 that is new and so I'll see.

But "yes", it doesn't GRAB the hull/casing and BRING it back 'when' it 'fast opens' as described (and 'as' it should, fast opening, breech comes out of battery, should slide out the hull with it)... I "JUST" wish I could see what a brand new and perfect 'extractor' looks like because then i could tell if this one is slightly off on the edge (which slopes a bit, becomes a bit narrrower)

Many thanks... anyone who has a close up photo of the extractor.
 
WAIT!

You are thinking the Win 300 is broken because of this:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5306807


I note when the shotgun fires it 'automatically' opens the breech or jumps into an 'out of battery' condition. Research found this: "The 1300 uses a rotating bolt lockup, similarish to the AR-15 system. The recoil automatically unlocks the bolt, and if you fire the gun one handed, it will eject the shell on its own."
Click to expand...

Roamingdoc qouting Genesco1911 of -the "high" road

"similarish"???? NOW really! that is not a technical term!

You bought a PUMP action, not an autoloader. NOTHING is wrong with your gun. Dont beleive all the kaka you read on the net.

I love my 1300 , enjoy yours.
 
The problem, as I read it, is that when the bolt retracts doesn't take the shell with it. We all know it's a pump.
 
Luke,

I have one. so his 1300 wont auto eject????

SO WHAT???

I've never tried it with mine. We need more 1300 owners who have tried it to tell us if this is "unusual". Some kook off the net on a break away from TFL ( High holy "high road" vs. Malon Labe types) is NOT ENOUGH.

In short I'll bet he's worring about NOTHING!!!:D
 
it's a fast action, but not that fast. Your gun's fine.


I urge all 1300 owners to buy a lot of rounds to get used to the way the action feels, it's a lot different than 870's and 500's. And familiarity is the name of the game when you intend to use a particular weapon to potentially save your life at some point.
 
Like LukeA, the way I read the problem was that the gun was leaving the fired shell in the chamber. It would not extract.
 
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I don't know where the author of the piece that says a 1300 will auto eject a round on it's own but that's pure BS. I've got a youth model 20 gauge 1200 and my brother has a 12 gauge defender and neither will "auto eject" and both are in good shape, with nice smooth actions.
The only way to get a 1200/1300 to properly eject a shell is give the forearm a good hard pull to the rear. the action of the forearm/bolt assembly moving easly to the rear is just a nice smooth action and has very little with any "speed pump" BS. Any pump well broken in action will do the same, my old Wingmaster sure does!:D
 
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