Kreyzhorse
New member
Like Kraig said above, concealed is concealed and if I need my gun bad enough to pull it, my last concerning is going to be what they think about it.
dealing with folks who don't understand CC
- Thread starter Yooper1
- Start date
Baba Louie
New member
Yooper1, Welcome to TFL.
a.) out of their sight,
b.) none of their business or concern.
i.e., Concealed means concealed and I have learned to keep my mouth shut about such things.
As to the practical heart of the matter, when in the situation you described you will revert to your training level without much thought or hesitation... so I have to ask (rhetorically) how much training do you have under your belt, as it were? What advice did/does your Trainer offer in terms of situational awareness when carrying around others?
Just more points to ponder. Old(er) book, sage advice... Mas Ayoobs In The Gravest Extreme. Worth a read. He suggests some throwdown money folded & stapled IIRC. an interesting concept.
As others have submitted, I don't worry about passive others being affected because until the item in question is needed, it is
a.) out of their sight,
b.) none of their business or concern.
i.e., Concealed means concealed and I have learned to keep my mouth shut about such things.
As to the practical heart of the matter, when in the situation you described you will revert to your training level without much thought or hesitation... so I have to ask (rhetorically) how much training do you have under your belt, as it were? What advice did/does your Trainer offer in terms of situational awareness when carrying around others?
Just more points to ponder. Old(er) book, sage advice... Mas Ayoobs In The Gravest Extreme. Worth a read. He suggests some throwdown money folded & stapled IIRC. an interesting concept.
gaseousclay
New member
does this include idiots with CC? i've always pondered this scenario and wondered what one is supposed to do. let's say you're walking down the street and you bump into some guy passing you who happens to be carrying. some words are exchanged and it looks like it's going to come to blows. does getting into a fist fight preclude you from brandishing your firearm, or is it reason for it? let's assume he's armed and you're not. everyone here always touts handgun ownership as a big responsibility, but to what end?
Why the heck are you going to exchange words with someone to the point where it looks like its going to come to blows? I've bumped into people and had people bump into me - on some occasions even been ran into at full running force. Usually there's a, "Oops! I'm so sorry!" followed by, "It's ok. Just look where you're going next time." then, "Ok I will. Are you ok?" etc. Of course there will be variations of that exchange but I've NEVER been bumped into or bumped into someone else where its turned violent.
The question then is what exactly is YOUR mentality that you'd bump into someone and get into a violent situation simply because of an accident?
Now to address the OP.
I'd carry and if I saw the necessity (gun pointed at my colleagues and me is definitely a necessity in my mind) I'd draw to protect my party and myself. Whether the other members of the party are dissenters or not of my actions can be dealt with later after everyone is safe. As for allowing said members of the party to know I'm armed - that would never have happened unless I needed to draw. CC is as much a mental game as it is about carrying a weapon.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Short & to the point.
You went through the effort to get a CCP. "It's your business only!" I see no need to discuss or look for approval from others who may take exception to your Right and or privalige to protect yourself under your State Law. Just my opinion on the subject.
You went through the effort to get a CCP. "It's your business only!" I see no need to discuss or look for approval from others who may take exception to your Right and or privalige to protect yourself under your State Law. Just my opinion on the subject.
Living in IL I can only carry legally when I am out of state (which is not than rare for me). My wife does not like or understand guns, and has no desire nor intention of learning how to handle a gun safely or otherwise. She knows that I usually have a firearm when we go on any lengthy roadtrip, but prefers me not to talk about it. So she never knows or wants to know about when I am carrying or not, which suits me just fine. I do take along a lockable steel case if we are staying overnight at a friend's or relative's home, especially if there are children in the house, just as a precaution (because there are times that you cannot actually have a gun on your person, such as when taking a shower). As others have said, concealed is concealed. Everyone I know well knows of my interest in guns and support of the 2nd Amendment, but that does not mean that I have to let them know if and when I am carrying.
gaseousclay
New member
I was merely positing a hypothetical scenario. it's no different than being rear-ended by some road rage freak - you could easily have a run in with someone that happens to be having a bad day and they happen to be carrying. I hate it when gun owners assume all other gun owners are law abiding citizens when this clearly is not the case. so what do you do if confronted by another person with a CCW?
Sparks1957
New member
Concealed is concealed, and very few people know that I carry whenever possible and legal to do so. I intend to keep it that way.
People that don't understand never will, and no amount of persuasion will change their minds generally speaking.
Why do people feel they have to justify carrying to other people? Just do it.
People that don't understand never will, and no amount of persuasion will change their minds generally speaking.
Why do people feel they have to justify carrying to other people? Just do it.
Baba Louie
New member
gaseousclay, A LEGAL card carrying CCW you mean? (I hope) As long as tools remain concealed, temper calm, apologize if and as necessary, deflect/avoid confrontation, etc. and move on with your life. He or she (legal CCW) had to go through the same background check, class, etc as you and should also be one to avoid trouble.
Should you mean a ner-do-well carrying concealed sans permit and with nefarious intent... watch their hands as you attempt to retreat and move off the line (of attack). You should automatically revert to your training level.
But thats a different topic really. More T&T methinks. Right now I believe we're discussing letting others know, or not, your legal CCW status and how to deal with them should "the NEED" ever arise.
But I could be wrong.
Prof Young
New member
University Professionals for Guns?
Yooper1:
Maybe we need to start some kind of organization for people who are employed by Universities and Colleges and who own guns. I'm fortunate in my situation that a number of my colleagues are gun owners and we go to the range together on a regular basis and have done some hunting together as well.
Live Well, be safe
Prof Young
Yooper1:
Maybe we need to start some kind of organization for people who are employed by Universities and Colleges and who own guns. I'm fortunate in my situation that a number of my colleagues are gun owners and we go to the range together on a regular basis and have done some hunting together as well.
Live Well, be safe
Prof Young
By CCW do you mean a permit/license/card of some sort that says you're allowed to carry? Or a weapon? (I'm aware of what it stands for, however, I've seen it used as both).
If it's the former, they've gone through some sort of training, that should go into the legal issues regarding guns (varies by state, of course), and they've had a background check that insures they aren't felons, or have mental issues. Sure, there are chances that they could have snapped, but for the most case, these checks will weed out the criminals and generally the people listing in your scenario from the law abiding. Now, if this person draws a gun on you because you bumped into him, he has gone from law abiding, to criminal, and you deal with him how you'd deal with anyone else who is threatening your life.
You see, for those carrying legally, in most states (not constitutional carry states, of course) this means you MUST NOT be a felon, and by definition, you are law abiding, regarding the worst infractions. If you're counting people who do 50 in a 45 as not law abiding, well then, we are all criminals, and law breakers. But we are proven to be relatively level headed, relatively mature, and relatively mentally stable. That's why we had to send in fingerprints and forms with our permit applications.
Obviously, not all gun owners are law abiding. If they were, I wouldn't need to worry about carrying. Even with the laws we have in place, felons still find a way to get guns. Your scenario is ridiculous (if you escalate accidentally bumping into someone into a fistfight, you have other major issues) and is no different whether someone is supposedly legally or illegally carrying...the end result is the same.
In other words, if someone threatens your life, regardless of ANY other circumstance, you have the right to defend yourself, NO MATTER WHAT.
And, yes, even though I live in a Constitutional Carry state, I still went ahead and got my permit.
My wife works for a university and she carries (well, not onto campus because it's illegal). I think it's likely a lot more common than people think. A lot of non-liberal University employees are afraid to come out for fear of retribution or worse. This is actually the second University she's worked at in as many states, and in both places, she knew several gun owners, many of whom carried, and a large percentage of them more conservative leaning. We have this mindset of Universities being a huge liberal machine, and although that's basically true, there are still many conservatives that have their voices in there as well.
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Rifleman1776
New member
Best part of CC is it is concealed and you have it.
CC is not a conversation starter. Don't talk about it at all.
Use wisley if needed.
CC is not a conversation starter. Don't talk about it at all.
Use wisley if needed.
In this situation I would let everyone hand over their money and only pull out a gun if I thought lives were in imminent danger. Awareness should have prevented this situation, but it didn't. Now BG already has a gun out. If we pull a gun out, one or probably more people are going to get shot. The consequences that are likely to result (death, injury, legal) far outweigh any wads of money or jewelry your co-workers could have. Don't try to be a hero. Gun play is always a last resort.
Besides -- It's the 2010s now man. Most people don't even carry any significant cash. They buy everything on plastic. Try to buy things at certain stores with cash and they look at you like you're a fossil.
Yooper1: said:
That is how I'd do it and have done it. It's legal (assuming a CCW license/permit) and you've made your choice. No need to explain it to others.
Yooper1: said:
I'd defend myself as necessary. If the nitwit runs off after you've drawn your gun or stops after being shot, everyone benefits.
Yooper1: said:
They are free to tell your assailant that they don't know you and wish to conduct their portion of the transaction without your interference, but I'll bet that they wouldn't dream of it if they are rational folks. I'd not hand over anything under any circumstances since it takes you away your ability to reach for the one important piece of equipment you might need.
Yooper1: said:
Quite frankly, I'd worry about my safety first. I have a family (wife, kids, mom, dad, sibs, etc.) that want/need me here. You probably do, too.
Risking all of that so as not to offend someone's "delicate sensibilities" ain't worth the trouble and wouldn't even offer "cold comfort" to my/your family.
You come first; all else follows in its rightful place and order.
If you're talking about a license, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? If you're attacked, odds are it's not someone with a license. But if someone is threatening you with a lethal weapon, what does it matter? If he had a license would you feel better about it somehow? And how would you know? If someone threatens you with a gun, are you going to ask for a license?
As for the OP- if someone robs you with lethal force, you are already in a life threatening situation. At what point you intervene is based on your own personal assessment of the safest course to take when you assess the risk of action or inaction. But the moral, ethical, and political implications are secondary to survival.
I don't know why, but some people seem totally oblivious to it. I'm working in New Orleans, and there are sections of this town the men I work with avoid, and yet I see young, college age women wandering through who seem to be oblivious to the danger. I guess they've just been sheltered from this stuff their whole lives or something.
The first step in making people comfortable with you and your guns around starts with you: you should already NOT have a reputation as a public drunk or somebody with anger management issues. If you have either of those two reputations then you've screwed up - and you are screwing up your life in general because both those things are bad for you and everybody else.
Second...a lot has to do with how you explain why you carry, if you need to.
I've had big success explaining that two of the three times I've ever had to pull a weapon (knives in California) it was to help bail somebody else out rather than fend off somebody attacking me. In all cases I had no legal problems and the worst was fully reviewed by law enforcement at the scene - no charges against me and my 5.5" blade not confiscated. So if I'm wired to try and help other people (without losing my temper and using minimal necessary force) then my odds of needing a gun just went way up.
I also explain that I hunt down the people who make bad voting machines or otherwise rig elections. In fact I just finished helping make this chart:
http://tinyurl.com/roveroadmap
...and this press release helps explain it (one page, read that first):
http://tinyurl.com/rovepressrelease
I am systematically ******* off some very powerful people. Is there a chance one of 'em might not like that? You betcha, as Sarah Palin might say.
This issue resonates with "lefties" very, very strongly.
I also explain that while the usual stereotype of an Arizona gunnie is "right wing heavily armed Christian Conservative", I went out of my way to make sure I'm not seen as that, in doing my own leatherwork...
Second...a lot has to do with how you explain why you carry, if you need to.
I've had big success explaining that two of the three times I've ever had to pull a weapon (knives in California) it was to help bail somebody else out rather than fend off somebody attacking me. In all cases I had no legal problems and the worst was fully reviewed by law enforcement at the scene - no charges against me and my 5.5" blade not confiscated. So if I'm wired to try and help other people (without losing my temper and using minimal necessary force) then my odds of needing a gun just went way up.
I also explain that I hunt down the people who make bad voting machines or otherwise rig elections. In fact I just finished helping make this chart:
http://tinyurl.com/roveroadmap
...and this press release helps explain it (one page, read that first):
http://tinyurl.com/rovepressrelease
I am systematically ******* off some very powerful people. Is there a chance one of 'em might not like that? You betcha, as Sarah Palin might say.
This issue resonates with "lefties" very, very strongly.
I also explain that while the usual stereotype of an Arizona gunnie is "right wing heavily armed Christian Conservative", I went out of my way to make sure I'm not seen as that, in doing my own leatherwork...
zincwarrior
New member
Teller's have access to their individual tills. Safes themselves typically holder larger amunts of cash but not the sums you would think. However, those are often not accessed due to time constraints or inability to open them.
Remember its not the bank teller's money. Its not the money of the people in the store either - unless the robbers stupidly rob the bank customers as well.
deadcoyote
New member
I am an LEO and a firearms instructor and get a lot of folks asking me if I endorse CC. Of course I do, and I carry everywhere I go off work. We live very rural, and the most compelling arguement I can make to folks is that if you call 911 where we live, you will get a response (if even available) in about 45 minutes to an hour. That's a lot of window for all kinds of bad to happen, and I'd rather not roll the dice with the safety of myself and my family.
On the other hand, when I tell people who have no shooting experience that it's a major commitment re: practicing, abstaining from alcohol while armed, etc. you do see some folks who are definately not prepared to make that kind of lifestyle change, and as far as I'm concerned good for them for realizing that rather than carrying a weapon they are not trained/mentally prepared to use.
On the other hand, when I tell people who have no shooting experience that it's a major commitment re: practicing, abstaining from alcohol while armed, etc. you do see some folks who are definately not prepared to make that kind of lifestyle change, and as far as I'm concerned good for them for realizing that rather than carrying a weapon they are not trained/mentally prepared to use.