DC pays through the nose for AD's

warhammer...

i don't get it.

it all seems simple enough.

without proper training on the actual weapons they are using, there are going to be accidents.

indeed, the fact that glock carrying police from other places don't have the rates of ADs that seem to occur in DC is a telling statement is it not?

and insofar as, while *i* don't like glocks because of no external safety, i am thinking about this as one who often carries a gun in a fanny pack for self defense...*not* for police work.

that still does not make this weapon less than a good one for being a cop...*if* proper training and procedures are adhered to.

final thoughts.

it doesn't seem to me like a quarter mil is nearly enough payment for the death of an unarmed person by a negligent officer of the court. maybe that's part of the problem<g>.

but that being said, IMO, there is no way the "gun just went off". it had its trigger pulled when it shouldn't have...but the DC police probably didn't mind that Glock took the rap for bad policing.
 
The ironic thing is that so many Police Departments disallow use of the 1911 design due to safety concerns, yet issue Glocks. Yeah, I know the manual of arms is much simpler with a Glock, but they always put me in mind of carrying a 1911 with the thumb safety off, just with a longer trigger pull and no grip safety.
 
Wow. Those stats are simply amazing. Sounds like what happens when 3,600 commissioned officers switch from revolvers to Glocks, with plainly inadequate transition training. The DC metro police should have invested the money in requiring every officer to complete a 40-hour remedial semi-auto transition course -- the theme of the course would be "how to keep your finger OFF of the trigger" so as to avoid shooting your roommate who asks "how do you want your chicken cooked?" Plus, a heavy trigger spring and the New York trigger would be handy in preventing ADs.

Simply amazing and embarassing for the profession. Also makes me wonder who they're hiring.
 
Glock as a high performance machine??? Mas is joshing us, right?

How is it different than any other pistol? E.g. my 1911, a Kahr, etc, ad naseum. The rules always apply--on the range, in a fight, in a warehouse, cooking chicken, arguing with your roommate over a girl, always.

Mall ninjas think they do not have to train because they wear a blue polyester (or that mustard yellow or khaki in the Land of Stars and Bars) uniform and have a pot metal badge. They are wrong. Policicrats think that training budgets are a luxury item and that police cannot be trained. They are wrong.

Corvette or Yugo you must learn to drive. Got to go to skul.
 
The conclusion is:

Warhammer hates Glocks.

So does a certain member on the 1911 forum. He can't start a thread without letting everybody know that the Glock is the single most defective and dangerous man-made device since the early Ford Pinto. :rolleyes:

The bottom line: if you're an idiot, don't buy a Glock. If you are, buy one anyway and let Darwin's theory take care of everything else. :D
 
Don't even try to insult us by trying to blame the weapon system on ND's....

I flew Cobras and Apaches for most of my career and and even though the aviator had to meet at least 6 switch positions (even more in the Apache), we still had folks launching ordnance downrange unexpectantly...

Bottom line-----dumbasses are dumbassees...


Woody Jones
CW4 USA, retired
 
experienced officers and AD's

No, I don't hate Glocks. I carried one for many years with no problems. Typical Glunkhead thinking there. Admit the tactical tupperwear is less than perfect and automatically you have to be a hater of Gaston's product. Or you are just spreading "internet rumours". Why is it that Beretta Fanatics and Colt Fanatics and even Wheelgun fanatics don't go into conniption fits when you point to a shortcoming in their favorite design? Overcompensation maybe?
I am okay with glocks, However, I would be the first person to admit it is just about THE most unforgiving gun design out there. Even the 1911 with the thumb safety off has the grip safety as a backup. (certain foriegn commandos carried Cocked and Unlocked that way for years).
I eventually traded my Glock off, not because I "hate Glocks" but because quite frankly it fit my hand like a two-by-four, and you couldnt find any aftermarket high cap mags that worked well in it, compared to say, my Browning P-35 or Beretta 92F. Why it needed that big empty place behind the mag well was beyond me.
Even the best of us can have an AD.
One of my friends when I lived in the big city was a former swat cop, a former tactical marksman par excellance and all around True Professional. He had an AD with his Beretta 92, when , after he cornered a very dangerous child killer in a high stress situation, he made a mistake and went to decock the gun the way you decock a high power or wheelgun, instead of using the safety lever.
Of course, he should have gotten an award for capping the perp, who killed a seven year old girl, but instead it set off a race riot in that particular town, when local press idjits conveniently forgot the slain suspect was being tracked down for shooting an african american little girl. All they cared about was white cop shot black suspect.
EVEN the BEST of us are capable of making mistakes when we go Into The Dark Place.
That is why I shared the info which came from a 1911 site. It's not to knock a piece I carried for years. It's to let some people out there riding a tidal wave of BALONEY have a little wake up call. Internet Rumours my backside!
 
The only thing I gather from reading the article is that DC police are poorly trained in gun handling. The fact that they are having these ND's with Glocks has nothing to do with it. Give them a "safer" gun, whatever that is, and you still end up with poorly trained officers that can get themselves killed. Either they'll forget to release the safety or will jerk the shot and miss their assailant (and probably hit a bystander instead).

The bottom line: There is NO such thing as a "safe" handgun in the hands of a poorly trained individual.
 
It should be obvious that this is a Training problem. With D.C.'s extremely high crime rate I am sure that the Glock mishaps are only a small part of a undertrained Police Department. :rolleyes:
 
The Metropolitan Police Department (MPDC) is a totally dysfunctional department. It is so beset by racial and political problems that it is a miracle that it functions at all. Whether you compare Glock ND's to Baltimore or Philly or number of officers under indictment for felony/capital charges, number of sick hours used, vehicle downtime, maintenance costs, number of hours inservice training or any other indice of efficiency of a police department, MPDC will come in next to the Port au Prince, Haiti police department.

Don't confuse MPDC or DC goverment incompetance with any mechanical issues. There was the crime wave caused of the class of 91. an entire recruit class was passed throught training and sworn in without background checks. There are now more class member is prison than still on the job.

If your REALLY want a LE job, DC will hire you if your breath will fog a mirror. The downside is that you HAVE to live in DC. The official explanation for the total incompetance of the DC goverment is Rampant Racism. They blame you and me for their
total inability to function as even a third world city.
 
The Glock design is well-known and there aren't many secrets out there. Without finger pressure on the trigger, a Glock is as safe as any other pistol design out there. Nobody in the D.C.P.D. is telling their trainees, "If you put your finger on the trigger, you WILL FIRE THE GUN."

That's not a problem-that's how the gun works.

In battery, finger off the trigger, the firing pin channel is blocked, the sear plate is physically prevented from releasing the striker, and the striker is in half-cock. You could fling a loaded Glock out of the side of a moving car, and it will not discharge.

When pressure is applied to the trigger, the firing pin safety (the same as a Colt Series 80) is disengaged. The firing pin channel is clear.

As the trigger moves to the rear, the striker is fully cocked, but the sear plate still can't release the striker.

When the trigger has reached the rearmost position, the sear plate drops down and releases the striker. The firing pin moves forward and detonates the primer.

The lack of an affirmative safety can be viewed as an oversight or a benefit. I don't like external safeties, as I've seen far too many people at the range or in competition fail to disengage them before taking the shot. In a life or death situation, I don't want to wonder if I'm ready to fire. The second I put my finger on the trigger, I demand that a 9mm bullet be sent on its' merry way.

Many departments issue various Glock flavors as duty weapons, and they're not launching errant rounds every five minutes or so. Perhaps the D.C.P.D. has an unusually high percentage of wannabe Darwin Award winners, or the water in that area has serious effects on intelligence.

The problem resides between the ears of the operator, not the gun.
 
By the way boys, there is a WORLD of difference in handlin' a gun on the range and handlin' a gun in a deserted warehouse after some creep fired off some rounds at you.

But over 60% of those ND's occured in the high stress situation of unloading the pistol at home or in the station. it seems to me that the DC police are keeping their fingers on the trigger when they really shouldn't be!

"An unholstered Glock in the 'street load' mode with the trigger safety mechanism pressed is a profoundly dangerous weapon, even in the most ideal conditions."

Well, isn't that a 'duh'? The trigger safety mechanism can only be pressed if your finger is on the trigger.. any gun is profoundly dangerous to whatever it is pointed at if your finger is on the trigger.
 
This is maybe off-topic, but....
I was on the Mall in DC, for Stand in The Gap, (97 maybe?),
and one LE I saw close up was carrying the gun with the cocking lever built into the grip, (H&K P7?).
That gun is hard to make fire, from what I understand.
Anybody know when they switched to Glocks?
 
Even the 1911 with the thumb safety off has the grip safety as a backup.
Click to expand...
The grip safety would not prevent idiots from ND's, since that safety is conveniently disengaged when you're gripping the pistol!
 
D.C. Police carry Glocks and have repeated AD's.

Arkansas Probation and Parole Officers carry Glocks (+about 500 other agencies ;) ) and don't have any issues with it.

I think we have found the problem, and it's not the gun:p
 
Glocks and the DC Police don't mix. While I think the Glock is the ultimate harsh environment handgun and I concede all handguns are dangerous, the Glock design lends itself to ND's. To believe that there is no difference in the level of detent between a Glock, High Power, HK USP or Beretta 92FS points to a lack of objectivity. Glock should use this situation in DC as a learning experience for future Departments that transition. Whether we like or not, in this litigious age, Glock must run with the ball when it comes to training even if it should be the responsibilty of the issuing agency.
 
Mini14,

You didn't see a DC City Police officer, you saw a United States Park Police officer (both have policing powers in the District).

Park Police has carried HK P7M8/M13s for about 12 years now. At one time they also carried Benelli shotguns, but have in the past couple of years switched to Remingtons for general issue.

Prior to carrying the HKs, the Park Police carried S&W Model 10 heavy barrels.

Prior to switching to the Glock around 1990 (they had just transitioned when I moved down in late 1990), the DC Metro police carried S&W Model 10 heavy barrels.
 
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