Damned anti recruiting movement

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Tell the gay linguist to go join the Navy...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...vy_returned_openly_gay_sailor_to_active_duty/

Petty Officer Jason D. Knight, a Hebrew linguist who says he had officially informed his superiors that he was homosexual, was discharged in April 2005 after completing his four-year tour of duty, according to a summary of his Navy personnel file.

Nine months later, the Navy recalled him to active duty, even though he was openly gay, and sent him to Kuwait, where he served as a translator and received multiple awards for exemplary service.

a classic example of non enforcment...lol

Like I said as a Sr. NCO as long as you were a Soldier first and kept the bedroom drama at home I didnt give a rats butt about your sexual preferences. I still dont as long as you keep your drama out of business.
 
Like I said as a Sr. NCO as long as you were a Soldier first and kept the bedroom drama at home I didnt give a rats butt about your sexual preferences. I still dont as long as you keep your drama out of business.
No doubt there are many that feel exactly as you do. And you're perfectly justified; such personal things should be kept out of the work day whether it's gay, straight, bi or whatever. The problem is that enforced or not it's still an official policy of discrimination. Just because you wouldn't care and enforce the policy doesn't mean that some other senior NCO that thinks gays are icky and sinful won't toss aside someone who has served honorably and could very well be crucial to the mission at hand. That being said, as JuanCarlos has reminded us, this very policy is an important part of why many in that town have such an animosity to the military.

If the US armed forces had a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy regarding Judaism you'd probably find many cities with a strong Jewish population would be reacting the same way. You can't really have such a policy with races, though, since they're readily apparent so I just came up with a brilliant hypothetical for it. :p

It's no different than the military having a DADT policy against those who prefer redheads to brunettes and blondes. You can have your preference outside of work and keep it to yourself but if you're seen on a date with a redhead you can be drummed out of the service despite no wrong-doing. Now tell me that you wouldn't have many places giving a big, well-deserved middle finger to anyone that enforced that policy and an organization that actually has it on the books.
 
I think the people who are opposing the recruiting effort, whether they realize it or not, are helping bring back the draft.This country will be defended. Thats the bottom line. Right now a recruiter can ask them to join and they can say no for any reason or no reason. If it comes to a point where the force can no longer sustain it's self with regulars, conscription is the only alternative.

That is fitting. I won't say they are all statists, but quite a few of them are. They are going to be in for a real eye opener on the day the state sticks a gun in their face and says "Congratulations, you are in the Army now".

Statist: one who believes it is the government's responsibility to provide for the people.
 
Recruiters lie...

That's just not acceptable. If the military can't recruit without lying then maybe it doesn't deserve those recruits.

Recruiters lie. They always have. They always will. Most of their lies are in the form of omission. They don't explain the details of what military life is about, outside of generalities. They don't tell you that you are going to be scrubbing trash cans with toothbrushes at 5 in the morning. They don't tell you that you are going to be tired, sore, hungry and hot/cold for weeks on end. They don't tell you that you are going to be punished for not having your bunk tight enough, or your locker squared away. They tell you it will be "tough" That it will be a "challenge". And they can't tell you the truth about combat. No one can. Even those with combat experience only know the truth for them. They can tell you what it was like for them, but they can't tell you what it will be like for you. No one knows that, and if they say different, they are lying.

They don't tell you that you do not have the right to speak your mind, and will be punished for doing so. They tell you that you will learn discipline. They don't tell you alot of the little things that make up life in training, or the other things that make up life in duty units. You learn those as you go. You learn that the military doesn't pay well, compared to civilian jobs. You learn that your time "off" is not your own, you only get to pretend it is.

They tell you that your "deal" (recruitment contract" is the best thing there is for you, and then later you run into somebody who got a better deal than you did, even though they are no more qualififed than you are. They minimize the down sides to service, and maximize the benefits. That is their job. Of course they lie. They have to project a favorable image, and the absolute truth won't do that. But their lies are small things, in the big picture.

Never have any salesman tell you less than the absolute truth before you signed that contract? If you never have, you haven't been around much. In some ways recuiters are a lot like car salesman. And if you don't go into the service with your eyes open, you have no one to blame but yourself.

As far as the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, I think it is one of the smartest things the military has done in recent years. It allows them to get the benefits of service from gays, without having to deal with them being gay. Unlike society in general, the military is filled with horny young men. And while today they are more tolerant (in general) of gays, that has not always been the case. Back whan I served, just the rumor that someone might be gay was enough to get their ass kicked. Young men of that era were NOT at all tolerant of gays, to the point of violence!

The service has a couple of things they consider that civilian society doesn't. One is combat effectiveness, and the other is the social situations of barracks life. It is better today than in the past, but young men who are worried and distrustful of their comrades because they are gay do not make for a good situation, either in combat, or in the barracks.

It is not the same thing as not allowing blacks, or asians or jews or blondes to serve. It may appear to be the same principle, but the reality is somewhat different. Someday that will (hopefully) not be true, but that day is not yet. Just as blacks were segregated, (and at one time asians) "for the good of the service", gays must also be treated differently. Not so much for who they are, but for what the rest of us still are. For their own protection as much as anything. And I believe, just as blacks, asians, and even women are allowed to serve today without "special" treatment (although there are still special rules for women), one day perhaps, gays will not be thought of as anything "different". But even though not as bad as in the past, we are not there yet. And the DADT policy seems reasdonable to me. Especially the Don't Tell part.

And as far as the War in Iraq is concerned, our elected representatives may have been sold a bill of goods, but they bought it on our behalf. I was amazed that our so called thinkers in Congress actually voted the President the equivalent of a blank check! Today they complain when he uses it, but reality is, they gave it to him to use in the first place.

I do not agree with the way the war in Iraq has been handled. We can argue all day about "if" we should be there or not, but that doesn't matter any more that how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. We are there. The important question is what do we do and where do we go from there? I won't pretend to have the answers, but I think we should do something more constructive than just sitting around saying "Bush lied" and "we shouldn't be there". And so far, nobody opposing the Iraq "adventure" has publically come out with anything else. Or, if they have, they're keeping it pretty quiet.
 
Recruiters lie. They always have.
And it's always been wrong. Omission is one thing but there are recruiters that will speak flat out lies. If a recruit doesn't take the time to research aspects of military life and believes it will be a walk in the park that's his own damn fault. However if a recruiter specifically promises that recruit something that he knows he can't promise, that's nothing short of fraud.

It allows them to get the benefits of service from gays, without having to deal with them being gay.
Deal with them being gay? It's not a disease, they no more have to deal with a gay soldier being gay than they have to deal with a straight soldier being straight.

Young men of that era were NOT at all tolerant of gays, to the point of violence!
Real honorable, those gents. :eek:
but young men who are worried and distrustful of their comrades because they are gay do not make for a good situation,
Distrustful? How much narcissism does a guy have to have to think that every gay guy around has the hots for him? :rolleyes: A guy that can't do his job properly because he has this egotistical idea that another soldier wants to sleep with is not only fooling himself but doesn't seem cut out to do the job.

What about ugly chicks? Military have a policy against those? Because I know there are plenty of guys out there that get uncomfortable when an ugly girl hits on them or eyes them weird. No, at this point the gay soldiers are being held to a different standard not because of their own behavior but because other soldiers might feel icky.

Just as blacks were segregated, (and at one time asians) "for the good of the service", gays must also be treated differently.
It wasn't right then and it's not right now. It was never right and will never be right and shouldn't be accepted by a society that gives a damn about the concept of equality. Anything less than that true equality is an affront to that neat little phrase that Jefferson put in the Declaration. (I know it wasn't his line but he sure thought it important enough to include it in the letter to the most powerful man in the world at the time :p)

(although there are still special rules for women)
Which still confounds me. :confused: I don't see why women should get easier qualifications and then want combat roles. If they can do the job as well as any male soldier - and many of them certainly can - then there shouldn't be anything standing in their way. The backwards attitudes of soldiers that have a problem with it - whether they be racist soldiers, misogynist soldiers, or homophobic soldiers - shouldn't justify these kinds of things.


I'm sorry to harp on this subject so much but it affects me directly. Excuse me for going into too much detail but fortunately my current relationship is with a woman so I have nothing to worry about. My recruiters have even met her and they have no idea about my "preferences". And it certainly doesn't affect my performance in any way; there are times we have swim days for all the DEP guys and I'm surrounded by shirtless Marines. I don't care, I'm not attracted to a damn one of them. I just go because I plan on trying out for the first recon indoc available to me.

The point is that if two years into my enlistment my girl and I are through and I meet a guy that I like, why should I have to hide it just to keep my job? I understand that it's policy, it's just bad policy. I wouldn't want to hear about another soldier's gay relationship any more than I want to hear about another soldier's straight relationship. I don't care and it doesn't affect how well I can do my job. If it only affects how the other guys do their jobs then why do their failings and character flaws result in unequal treatment for me?


And as far as the War in Iraq is concerned, our elected representatives may have been sold a bill of goods, but they bought it on our behalf. I was amazed that our so called thinkers in Congress actually voted the President the equivalent of a blank check! Today they complain when he uses it, but reality is, they gave it to him to use in the first place.
Indeed. And as we saw with the last election many of those same elected representatives lied their way into a majority by suggesting that they would undo everything Bush did, right the world again and bunnies would flock in the fields. Instead they're a bunch of gutless wonders that don't have the stones to deliver on what they promised. :barf:
 
Deal with them being gay? It's not a disease, they no more have to deal with a gay soldier being gay than they have to deal with a straight soldier being straight.

Distrustful? How much narcissism does a guy have to have to think that every gay guy around has the hots for him? A guy that can't do his job properly because he has this egotistical idea that another soldier wants to sleep with is not only a fool but doesn't seem cut out to do the job.

What about ugly chicks? Military have a policy against those? Because I know there are plenty of guys out there that get uncomfortable when an ugly girl hits on them or eyes them weird. No, at this point the gay soldiers are being held to a different standard not because of their own behavior but because other soldiers might feel icky.


We talked about this before at length Redworm. They do have to "deal" with it. It not an accepted "normal" practice by the majority a people. No matter how much you would like it to be it's not; nor will it be in the foreseeable future.
Worried about getting hit on, not likely. Worried about blood transfusions, you bet. I work in a team environment with no support other than the 10 guys I'm with, our SOP for blood is a buddy transfusion. I'll take my chances with men not in the higher risk group for HIV.
Can't speak about ugly chicks since we don't deploy with women.
 
We talked about this before at length Redworm. They do have to "deal" with it.
And again, that's their character flaws causing unequal treatment for me.
It not an accepted "normal" practice by the majority a people.
Neither is Judaism. In fact, homosexuality is far more common than Judaism in both the world and the United States itself. What is considered "normal" by society should not have an effect on how someone is treated by the government.
No matter how much you would like it to be it's not; nor will it be in the foreseeable future.
I disagree. As more of the previous generation shuffle off this mortal coil fewer people will be held up by such backwards and unfair views on other human beings.
Worried about getting hit on, not likely. Worried about blood transfusions, you bet. I work in a team environment with no support other than the 10 guys I'm with, our SOP for blood is a buddy transfusion. I'll take my chances with men not in the higher risk group for HIV.
Hey, blacks are also at higher risk for HIV than whites. :rolleyes: Populations within the military are slightly different than in the civilian world. Less likely to have heroin junkies and male prostitutes around in uniform so your fears about blood transfusions are irrational at best. At worst they're flat out ridiculous because they can TEST for such diseases.

You do realize that you're far more likely to kill yourself by a transfusion from a guy with a different blood type than by a guy with HIV, right?
 
I kept hoping this would get back to the Recruitment on Campus issue. Rememeber? That was the topic. Not the continual side trip into military/gay issues.

Closed.
 
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