Garrett, I'm sorry, I take for granted that everyone will be moving to cover, (while engaging the badguy of course). In my practice and at some competitive events I am moving/shooting while the target is still. Once in a while a match will have a swinger activated by knocking down the target before it. When the swinger is used I only remember standing still while shooting it. So very rarely, have I been able to shoot moving targets while moving myself. I believe that I will be reasonably proficient at it but I expect the groups to open up. Thats why when people say that they are going to hit the head, I laugh sarcastically.
DA/SA Trigger drills
- Thread starter garrettwc
- Start date
constant trigger contact technique
To master the DA/SA transition on a handgun:
(1.) Have a gun that fits your hand. Place the pad of your trigger finger in contact with the face of the trigger. Leaving your finger in position, wrap the rest of your hand around the frame in a firing grip. The axis of the bore should be aligned with the bone in your forearm. Look from above and make sure that your finger is not in contact with the frame (finger drag).
If the gun doesn't fit your hand, it's hard to shoot it well. Lots of people buy guns with double column magazines because they thing they "need" all that magazine capacity, but they end up getting a gun that's too big for the size of your hand.
(2.) When shooting, fire the first shot double action. HOLD THE TRIGGER TO THE REAR AS THE SLIDE RECIPROCATES AND THE GUN CYCLES. Let the trigger out only far enough to reset the sear (you can hear and feel the click as the sear resets). Then fire the second shot single action. Repeat as necessary.
You want to keep your finger in contact with the trigger WHILE ACTUALLY IN THE ACT OF FIRING. If you fire the first shot DA, the gun clocks itself. The rest of the rounds will be fired in single action mode unless you decock, with a shorter trigger stroke and less pressure required to release the sear. If, after that first shot, you let your finger fly off the face of the trigger and then bash the trigger on the way back, your shots will dip low. You want to avoid having your finger bounce off the trigger.
This is a fine motor skill that takes some practice. And it's hard to do unless you practice on a regular basis. It will work on any DA/SA handgun, a Glock, an AR-15, just about any self-loading firearm that DOES NOT have a DAO trigger system of some sort (like a revolver, or a Kahr pistol). Some respected authorities say that you can NEVER accomplish this under stress (I disagree) and that's one of the reasons that handguns with consistent trigger function shot to shot are becoming popular for use by the police, because most cops don't practice enough to be any good (I are one, and I know . . . )
To master the DA/SA transition on a handgun:
(1.) Have a gun that fits your hand. Place the pad of your trigger finger in contact with the face of the trigger. Leaving your finger in position, wrap the rest of your hand around the frame in a firing grip. The axis of the bore should be aligned with the bone in your forearm. Look from above and make sure that your finger is not in contact with the frame (finger drag).
If the gun doesn't fit your hand, it's hard to shoot it well. Lots of people buy guns with double column magazines because they thing they "need" all that magazine capacity, but they end up getting a gun that's too big for the size of your hand.
(2.) When shooting, fire the first shot double action. HOLD THE TRIGGER TO THE REAR AS THE SLIDE RECIPROCATES AND THE GUN CYCLES. Let the trigger out only far enough to reset the sear (you can hear and feel the click as the sear resets). Then fire the second shot single action. Repeat as necessary.
You want to keep your finger in contact with the trigger WHILE ACTUALLY IN THE ACT OF FIRING. If you fire the first shot DA, the gun clocks itself. The rest of the rounds will be fired in single action mode unless you decock, with a shorter trigger stroke and less pressure required to release the sear. If, after that first shot, you let your finger fly off the face of the trigger and then bash the trigger on the way back, your shots will dip low. You want to avoid having your finger bounce off the trigger.
This is a fine motor skill that takes some practice. And it's hard to do unless you practice on a regular basis. It will work on any DA/SA handgun, a Glock, an AR-15, just about any self-loading firearm that DOES NOT have a DAO trigger system of some sort (like a revolver, or a Kahr pistol). Some respected authorities say that you can NEVER accomplish this under stress (I disagree) and that's one of the reasons that handguns with consistent trigger function shot to shot are becoming popular for use by the police, because most cops don't practice enough to be any good (I are one, and I know . . . )
DunedinDragon
New member
I guess I'll need to reserve my judgement on this for a bit as, based on this thread I decided to go out and have my first try at defensive pistol shooting. Since I'm just starting with it I went ahead and used my Glock 19 so I can get familiar with moving and shooting at the same time. I figure after a few weeks of getting some consistency there, I'll switch to my Sig P220 and see what happens.
My gut feeling based on what I learned from the first stage and going into the other stages was it's more about aiming discipline than it is trigger action when stress comes into play. But I guess I'll see if that continues to be the case once I get some consistency with the Glock and move to the Sig.
My gut feeling based on what I learned from the first stage and going into the other stages was it's more about aiming discipline than it is trigger action when stress comes into play. But I guess I'll see if that continues to be the case once I get some consistency with the Glock and move to the Sig.
DunedinDragon
New member
3gun,
What do you think I traded IN to get my Sig220? Yep, G21!!! MUCH happier with the fit in my hand as well the overall feel and shooting.
As far as the G19, I've had it for a while and it shot really well the other night, but I prefer carrying a .45 every day. I'm not really looking to compete as much as I am trying to develop some better street skills, so I really don't care that much about my score...I just care about misses.
What do you think I traded IN to get my Sig220? Yep, G21!!! MUCH happier with the fit in my hand as well the overall feel and shooting.
As far as the G19, I've had it for a while and it shot really well the other night, but I prefer carrying a .45 every day. I'm not really looking to compete as much as I am trying to develop some better street skills, so I really don't care that much about my score...I just care about misses.
one drill, one suggestion
A lot of our students come with DA/SA guns. We've had good luck with one drill that has already been mentioned.
This is an hour or so of fire, decock, fire, decock. You will quickly get to where your hand is comfortable with its double action SIG or whatever, AND with its single action SIG or whatever, and can switch between the two almost automatically.
You just don't want to do this drill so much that on the street you fall into fire, decock, fire, decock...
One suggestion: historically, auto pistol shooters have actuated their triggers with the tip or the pad of their index finger. It's a technique that goes back to long before the DA auto came on the scene. We found it very useful to learn from the ultimate double action practitioners, the revolver shooters. DA sixgunners most typically find that they get more leverage by contacting the trigger at the distal joint, a spot the old time PPC shooters sometimes called the "power crease."
This gives the finger a great deal more leverage, and in most cases allows a better straight back pull. After the first DA shot breaks, it is not necessary to change finger positions: just leave the finger there at the "power crease" and continue firing.
It works for me, and has worked for a great many of our students.
Another factor (also previously addressed on this useful and thoughtful thread) is trigger reach. A shorter trigger also allows "more finger" and more leverage for, in my experience, a majority of shooters. Ernest Langdon has been mentioned here. I can't help but notice that both the Beretta and the SIG he did for me were equipped with short reach triggers, which tells me that he is on top of this factor, too.
Best wishes. If you try the different finger placement, please let us know how you did with it.
A lot of our students come with DA/SA guns. We've had good luck with one drill that has already been mentioned.
This is an hour or so of fire, decock, fire, decock. You will quickly get to where your hand is comfortable with its double action SIG or whatever, AND with its single action SIG or whatever, and can switch between the two almost automatically.
You just don't want to do this drill so much that on the street you fall into fire, decock, fire, decock...
One suggestion: historically, auto pistol shooters have actuated their triggers with the tip or the pad of their index finger. It's a technique that goes back to long before the DA auto came on the scene. We found it very useful to learn from the ultimate double action practitioners, the revolver shooters. DA sixgunners most typically find that they get more leverage by contacting the trigger at the distal joint, a spot the old time PPC shooters sometimes called the "power crease."
This gives the finger a great deal more leverage, and in most cases allows a better straight back pull. After the first DA shot breaks, it is not necessary to change finger positions: just leave the finger there at the "power crease" and continue firing.
It works for me, and has worked for a great many of our students.
Another factor (also previously addressed on this useful and thoughtful thread) is trigger reach. A shorter trigger also allows "more finger" and more leverage for, in my experience, a majority of shooters. Ernest Langdon has been mentioned here. I can't help but notice that both the Beretta and the SIG he did for me were equipped with short reach triggers, which tells me that he is on top of this factor, too.
Best wishes. If you try the different finger placement, please let us know how you did with it.
finger position
Both Mas Ayoob and John Farnam suggested experimenting with using the crease of the distal joint (aka "the power crease") to work the trigger when my PD converted to DAK Sigs.
I have big hands and long fingers, and put a short trigger on the gun. I found I had to be careful with working the trigger exactly like a revolver, because sometimes (and not others) I had finger drag on the frame doing it that way, which would push my shots to the left. And then sometimes I'd hook them to the right. I suspect that was happening because I wasn't mashing the trigger straight to the rear. And then other times it worked great . . .
I get the most consistant results with keeping the first pad of my trigger finger in contact with the face of the trigger, but I suspect I can get away with this because I have long fingers.
Both Mas Ayoob and John Farnam suggested experimenting with using the crease of the distal joint (aka "the power crease") to work the trigger when my PD converted to DAK Sigs.
I have big hands and long fingers, and put a short trigger on the gun. I found I had to be careful with working the trigger exactly like a revolver, because sometimes (and not others) I had finger drag on the frame doing it that way, which would push my shots to the left. And then sometimes I'd hook them to the right. I suspect that was happening because I wasn't mashing the trigger straight to the rear. And then other times it worked great . . .
I get the most consistant results with keeping the first pad of my trigger finger in contact with the face of the trigger, but I suspect I can get away with this because I have long fingers.