CZ 75 ?

[Sevens]

Walt, I am aware of all those model numbers but I believe if you chase down production numbers you'll find that while "rare" may not be the word we are looking for, "fractional" may be. Some production numbers across a line can occasionally be found from a source such as a Roy Jinks letter. The DAO versions of the six different 10mm chambered 3rd Gens being a fine example. I don't have the numbers handy but the two DAO models (of the six total) end up being less than 2,000 pistols of the roughly FIFTY thousand handguns produced.

No, I don't have a source for S&W pistol production numbers other than blurbs we can spot from the SCSW and snippets from the occasional Jinks letter. But in being a big fan of these guns since the 2nd Gens were in their heyday, it has been plainly obvious to me that they are but a small fraction of total production.

I believe naming them DAO was perfectly reasonable, especially at the time. Afterall, it did the job intended -- spread the idea that each trigger pull would be the long and same pull as the first shot and certainly, you can see the hammer move rearward with the pull of the trigger. In that regard, it's not so different than the "LDA" offered by Para for a stretch, which was also some hybrid system that didn't quite do exactly what we may have been lead to believe that it did.

 

[Dave1911]

Most of the 1911 guys I know are concerned about using the trigger to drop the hammer on an empty chamber, as a part of the "drop the hammer and show clear" routine at the end of each string in the gun games.

Some feel that doing that (pulling the trigger and just letting the hammer drop on an empty chamber) can eventually damage of the hammer/sear interface. Dropping it in a hand-controlled manner (slowly and gently), the same way people do with LOADED revolvers or other guns (like the CZ) -- is not an issue. (Hammer down on a loaded chamber with some 1911s, depending on whether that gun has a firing pin block, is a different area of concern.)

I think it comes down to two things:

1. Depending on the model, the 1911 might not have a firing pin block. If your thumb slips even after you release the trigger, it could still have enough energy to strike & ignite the primer.
2. CZ's have the half-cock notch, which means you can leave your thumb over the firing pin as you first release the trigger, then hammer. The hammer never contacts the firing pin.

Thanks for the replies on something that has bothered me for a while.

As I think through this scenerio for a Kimber Custom II vs a CZ P-01. I think the P-01 may be safer with this maneuver for the following reasons.

1) CZ can go to half cock position meaning one can drop the hammer with no incidental contact (1911 will have incidental contact)

2) I can press the CZ trigger for only the first instant and let up and get an immediate firing pin block. I believe I have read that the firing pin block goes into place as soon as I remove my finger pressure from the trigger. So the firing pin block goes into effect immediately after letting up on the trigger. You probably don't use this "feature" unless you get clumsy. Does that sound correct?

3) The 1911 firing pin block on my Kimber II is grip safety deactivated meaning it may not be in place as one lowers the 1911 hammer via the trigger. And the hammer will make incidental contact given there is no half cock position. I guess if one consciously lets off the grip as they are dropping the 1911 hammer via the trigger this could be kind of like the CZ block. But it seems more risky without a half cock position. And it also seems like activating the trigger block in the middle of hammer drop could damage something (yes, no?). Maybe the same case could be said about the CZ?

I am stating these three above as questions. How far off am I? Some of us electronic types take a while with this mechancal stuff .

 

[TunnelRat]

I must be missing something. On my Series 80 Colt Government 1911 there is a notch position that is not cocked but slightly off of the firing pin. If I lower the hammer manually, it will lower the hammer to this position unless I keep the trigger held back. Is this not true of other 1911s?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I must be missing something. On my Series 80 Colt Government 1911 there is a notch position that is not cocked but slightly off of the firing pin. If I lower the hammer manually, it will lower the hammer to this position unless I keep the trigger held back. Is this not true of other 1911s?

Probably true of all of them. (Others here know a lot more about 1911s than I do, so maybe one of them can supply missing pieces.) But...

One of the points being asked about was why the concern about dropping the hammer on 1911s, and I think some folks were misinterpreting what THAT meant.

Just lowering the hammer to that "safety" notch won't help in the gun games -- as you've got to show the safety officer a clear chamber and then you have to lower the hammer. With a 1911 you'd have to do it manually if you were concerned about sear damage. With other guns, you'd just pull the trigger with the gun pointed down range.

The 1911 safety position (safety notch) probably can help if you let the hammer slip while lowering it, but with 1911s that are NOT equipped with firing pin blocks doing so won't prevent an accidental discharge if the gun is dropped just right, or if it is hit with great force. (In that case inertia can cause the firing pin to strike the primer; the hammer need not be involved!) Your gun, a Model 80, has a firing pin block -- as do some of the newer 1911 clone models. I don't know all of the different systems used.

A lot of folks don't like the Model 80s (or similar FPB-equipped 1911s) because of the extra "complications."

 

[gotthegoods]

I carry a 75B Omega and carry it at half cock.

The biggest visible difference between an Omega and non-Omega is the trigger bar.

An Omega trigger bar only has one leg while a non-Omega looks like a horseshoe.

I believe they are using the Omega system in their P06/P07