CVA 444 marlin

maximus

After almost 3 weeks the postal service still doesn't know exactly where my 444 dies are (mailed priority)--but they assure me they are somewhere on planet earth and will someday be delivered. Meanwhile, the cutting edge bullets I ordered Friday afternoon where delivered today. Go figure.

I do have 44 mag dies, so I figure I could at least get an approximation of what a 444 marlin cartridge might look like with a Maximus bullet. You can get the bullet to fit without trimming the case length--but then you need to trim the neck inside to take pressure off the drive band which is crucial to sealing the bullet in the bore well. I decided to go ahead with trimming the case length to 2.07" which is still a bit longer than what hornady recommends for their 265 ftx so that the drive band is outside the neck when seated to a COL of 2.848."

Keep in mind this is a "hypothetical" idea at this point and I do not in any way recommend that it is a safe or useable configuration.

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Looks spicy.
I haven't tried any of those, since I don't really shoot the single-shot any more.

but they assure me they are somewhere on planet earth and will someday be delivered
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I had a very rare (but not too valuable) item disappear in the mail on the 16th. Filed a claim. USPS rejected it. "It will be delivered late."

How the hell do you know that, if you don't know where it is? Are you just lying to everyone, and you happen to know that it's actually sitting in an intentionally-stashed semi-trailer somewhere in New Jersey?
 
That looks exciting! Not being limited to lever action pressures, you could get that moving right along!
 
Not being limited to lever action pressures, you could get that moving right along!
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I've been wondering about that--what pmax the hunter could actually take. QL comes up with a pmax for the cartridge of around 51,000 psi (CUP test). All the load data I've found looks like it's based on Marlin lever gun limits.
Looks spicy.
I haven't tried any of those, since I don't really shoot the single-shot any more.
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They are also very expensive; pretty much testing with one powder can cost a lot.

CE makes points for the bullets but unfortunately they were out of them for the .429.

I had a very rare (but not too valuable) item disappear in the mail on the 16th. Filed a claim. USPS rejected it. "It will be delivered late."

How the hell do you know that, if you don't know where it is?
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That's about the same day my order was sent. LOL. What I've noticed is that this past year the postal service stopped giving "precise" tracking information without you having to pay for it; much as the other package delivery services have done.
 
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First attempt at a test did not go very well. The first low end charge left the muzzle at around 2240 fps--it was one which I had seated the drive band into the case neck. The next one of the same charge weight with the drive band outside the neck went screaming out the muzzle at just over 2,500 fps. The 3rd shot didn't go anywhere at all--the genix primer was a dud and failed to ignite even though it had repeated solid firing pin hits. When I pulled the cartridge--the bullet was left in the chamber so it was game over for now. I'm not exactly sure how to crimp a cutting edge bullet with the drive band outside the case mouth.
 
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A 300 grainer at 2.500 fps puts you in 375 H&H territory, over 4,000 ft-lbs!
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Forgot to mention--I started out with 250 gr bullets. Sorry.:)

Do you have to crimp for a single-shot? I wouldn't think it to be absolutely necessary myself but maybe I'm overlooking something.
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It's a bit of an odd fit, I'm using Remington cases and after trimming the bullets are a tad loose in the case, I'm thinking maybe because there actually is a slight taper to the case walls. The cutting edge approach is to seal the bullet to the bore/rifling with the drive band as opposed to the diameter of the shank. AFAICT, the drive band is around .431 while the rest of the shank is about .427/8. This is supposed to result in better seal and less friction. To keep the drive band "intact" you should seat it outside the case mouth. My dilemma is how do you crimp the case with the .431 drive band in front of the case mouth.;)
 
Ah gotcha :)
I suppose you could turn down the expander and leave yourself with a bit more grip on the smaller shank. Of course that would mean you'd have to buy another expander for anything of a standard size.
 
Ah gotcha
I suppose you could turn down the expander and leave yourself with a bit more grip on the smaller shank. Of course that would mean you'd have to buy another expander for anything of a standard size.
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I don't even have 444 dies yet, I kinda sorta "bootlegged" my 44 mag dies into stop-gap service.
 
I just loaded up some ftx test loads--the hornady bullet--in contrast to the cutting edge bullet--is quite tight and requires some case expanding to get a good seat while not over-expanding the case preventing a good fit in the chamber.
 
2nd attempt at testing today. Temp about 28 degrees and winds 13 to 17 from 3 o'clock and target at 203 yds. I pulled the old bushnell scope and replaced it with a budget redfield revenge. The glass isn't all that much better, but the ocular is solid and doesn't move around like that on the bushnell.

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I loaded a test load of H4198 at 42.5 grs for the 265 ftx's and trimmed the cases to 2.067". labradar tagged the 4 shots with an SD at 10 fps and a rather slow though pleasurable 2016 fps. This is very close to what QL forecasted so I will continue development with this combination. Although the bottom-end test load is relatively slow--it would probably be ideal for deer to at least 200 yds. Again, the accuracy is very impressive in what I would consider realistic hunting conditions for Maine.

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I still hadn't tested my 250 gr maximus loads driven by AA1680 and loaded them up next. I ran into problems again, the first two shots were slight hang-fires and the impacts were far apart--I checked the bore just to make sure I didn't get a squib and found lots of unburned powder. My conclusion is that the powder simply isn't igniting well with the genix primers I'm using--or perhaps the powder itself is not igniting properly.

Because of the wide variations in velocity and impacts--my guess is that I'm possibly getting secondary pressure spikes in the bore and I'm stopping testing of this load, and will pull the bullets and empty the cases.
 

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Marlin 444 outfitter, Rem brass, Fed 210 primer, Rem 240 jsp, 2.520 col, heavy LFC

AA 1680
45.0 gns = 1884, 1986, 2064 fps vg to ex accuracy
47.0 gns = 2304, 2271, 2286 fps vg to ex accuracy
49.0 gns = 2520, 2502 fps, poor accuracy and considered excessive for lever rifle

Tried the 1680 originally for pumpkin busting 180/200 gn loads, but poi too different. Would suspect AA-1680 does better in the higher pressure loads, but still favored H-4198. The RCBS dies first tried acted as small base dies, Lee dies did not size down the body so far.
 
My load velocities comparable in gr weight to your's--at least the few shots I took with AA 1680--vastly exceeded your's, but I could tell something was "funky" with the ignition--there was a noticeable delay in firing pin strike and the bang. Considering the powder residue I figure the odds are I was getting the bullet start before the powder in the case had fully combusted. I think I may have possibly have been getting a secondary pressure spike, though I'd need to hook up a pressure sensor to get a better idea.
 
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I just got my new CVA 444 in this week. I filled the plastic hollow stock with dirt and tamped it in before I ever shot it. It turned it into a pussycat. Bought some used brass and been loading some with H4198 and 4227. Will load some with CFE BLK also. A guy posted some Quick Load data for it. I bet it does good.
 
I had a 444 Marlin back in the early 90's. Loved the look of the half mag rifle and the uniqueness of the cartridge.
You could find Rem 240 gr ammo fairly easily but the 265 was a little hard to come across.
I am reloader and pulled a 265 Rem and sectioned it lengthwise. Low and behold, it had the Hornady Interlock ring. It also looked from the outside to be identical. I seem to remember reading an article that said Rem used the Interlock bullet in their ammo.
Anyway, max charges of IMR4198 (I believe) would give 3 shots groups, all touching at 100yds, awesome. I had a 4X Weaver on it and it was very consistent.
It was a sledge hammer on deer and mainly big hogs, never disappointed.
Rick Jamison (Shooting Times) did a write up on it and had some loads with the Barnes 300gr JHP.
If I remember, the powder he (and I) used was H335, a compressed load. Shot almost as well as the 265 but my cheek couldn't handle the recoil from that Marlins stock .:mad: I decided to stay with the 265 Interlocks and always figured the 240gr bullets available at that time seemed a waste because of their construction. May as well just go with the 44 mag at that point.
 
The 444 is like the 35 whelen--a "sleeper" cartridge but does actually occupy a valuable performance niche (at least IMO:D). A perfect heavy woods hunting cartridge like we have here in Maine.
 
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