"Cruiser shotguns"... Opinions?

It all comes down to personal preference. I have a cruiser in a .410, but have shot several in 12 gauge. They have their place, I mostly use mine when space is a premium, such as camping or hiking. I wouldn't have a problem using one for home defense, but my choice would be a standard shotty. Bottom line find one to test fire, and buy what you like.
 
Daves-got-guns,

"...cant reccomend them because they dont look comfortable"


Then TRY one first and find out. How it LOOKS doesn't tell you a whole lot re: how it actually SHOOTS, does it.

-- John D.
 
Seems ironic to advocate firearms training for concealed permit applicants, yet give out advice on something you have no experience with:rolleyes:
 
Cloudcroft extols the virtues of PG-only shotguns...

But after you're done perusing his posts at TFL and THR, go ahead and read what Mr. Dave McCracken has to say about the same subject. He's got a long-standing challenge to anybody who thinks they can outshoot his full-stock shotgun with their PG-only version. Cloudcroft has conspicuously not taken Dave up on that offer.

Myself, I went with the full-stock on my 20" USMC 870Mk1 variant for a house gun. Why make it hard on myself when I want to put the front blade on target and keep it there when the 00 buck heads out the muzzle? :(
 
Gewehr98,

Sure, Dave disagrees with me big time. So what? I told Dave that I don't compete with anyone about anything. No one taking his challenge doesn't "prove" he's right. How can it? I don't have time for boys' games. Besides, I'm retired.

Like I won't compete with you and your lack of grasping simple concepts. Are you still in high school or something? I don't do that "challenge" crap, which includes shooting against a damn clock. That's unreal. WTH does that prove in a real shooting situation? But I sure will use my shorty in a combat/shooting situation in certain applications where the shorty is best for the job.

But people can carry/buy/use whatever kind of shotgun they want...so what? I never told anyone NOT to get a full-stocked shotgun, that they were crap, that shortys were superior to shoulder-stocked shotguns or any other such BS as you imply.

All I am doing is standing up for the shorty.

I do the very same thing for much-maligned small-caliber guns...look up THOSE posts, too...and also those over at THR. I get slammed for being a "mousegun" fan.

So what?

Neither of my stands is popular but I couldn't care less. I just state MY opinion, others make the decision for themselves. Otherwise, we'd just hear from ignorant people like you.

And I practice what I preach by carrying/using the very same guns I stand for in assorted gun forums...MY life is on the line with them and I'm quite confident using them.

Remember, any dead fish can float downstream, but it takes a live one to swim upstream. Try swimming upstream for a change or at the very least learn to speak for yourself and not simply be an airhead parrot.

Now, do YOU have any original thoughts on this subject or are you used-up about now, or, are you just out to destroy someone's valid use of a certain type of shotgun?

BTW, I sometimes carried a "shorty" M79 (40mm shotshells) on occasion (and at other times the M60, 1911, and M16) while on patrol in the RVN (although I was in armored recon, I did a hell-of-a-lot of foot patrols, got my CIB that way. No, I am not authorized to wear it because I was 11Delta, not 11Bravo, but I have my CIB award from my unit's CO anyway to prove it, so I'll wear it anyway). Sometimes, it couldn't be shouldered fast enough to use it suddenly and, in essence, it was fired somewhat away from my body in the haste to get that all-important first shot off. Later on, it occurred to me that a shorty 12-gauge (the Ithaca 37s also in service at the time for point men were shoulder-stocked, but I wasn't issued one) would be even better for close-up and fast firing in dense elephant grass and other assorted brush, when someone could be standing a few feet away and you'd never know it.

But maybe it's just ME...maybe I'm the only one (I sure doubt it) who can shoot some guns most people say you can't, or are "innacurate," like TINY handguns and, apparently, shorty shotguns.

So what? Why is that such a problem for you?

I also stated in other posts here and in other gun forums that I have a 590A1 full-stocked shotgun for OTHER purposes, so I am NOT against shoulder stocks. Where did I ever say I was?

I am just making a case for the shorty and am tired of ignorant people such as yourself slamming them. You probably never owned one or shot one, so WTF do YOU know? I'd say jack. How many patrols did YOU go on in a combat zone? Sounds like none. So WTF would I have any respect for what YOU say? I don't. I'm just stating all this here for the record so OTHER people can get both sides of the story...they can do whatever THEY want after hearing both sides.

But you DO sound like some ignorant kid. If you're not a kid but some old geezer, you've wasted your life not learning much at least about short shotguns anyway. And probably -- like many other "gun-owners" (the term used very loosely as per usual) -- small "inadequate" handguns/calibers.

Wise up. It'll soon be spawning season for you upstream.


Merry Christmas anyway,

-- John D.

P.S. I'm done with this thread. Say whatever you want and it will be uncontested...
 
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I have shot several, never owned one. The reason I have never owned one is that they are all but useless. They have a very limited realm of use, such as a breaching gun, or hiking/backpacking use. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing they do that a conventional shotgun doesnt do better.
 
I could see the benefit of turning a hallway corner with a pistol gripped shotgun against your side....it would seem that the muzzle wouldn't lead as far as ahead of you (giving them something to grab). Then again I've never even handled a PG shottie, just trying to imagine it in my head. I still like having a handgun in close to my body for moving around the house, despite it not being as powerful.

edited for spelling
 
i have a Mossberg 500 Persuader with the pistol grip and 20" barrel and 8 round tube. its real fun to shoot and i keep it within arms range of my bed. i keep it loaded with 2 target load #6 shot, 2 buckshot, 2 slugs, and 2 3" magnum steel shot. i figure most anyone will go down with the target load. ive shot over 50 buckshot and slugs through it in a day and its tolerable
 
A bit testy, are we?

So you've managed to become the Mall Ninja Extraordinaire of all things shotgun by holding one at eye level with just a pistol grip on the receiver and one more on the slide, roughly the same position one would have the shotgun were the buttstock still there, except you've managed to relocate recoil to the wrists and elbows vs. the shoulder, and made for a less steady platform. This is an improvement how?

Likewise, just how much practice does the average shotgun buyer need to do this Ninja-esque hold, vs. simply using a standard buttstock to maintain eye/sight alignment and absorb recoil in something other than their wrists and elbows? Is it something they're going to be proficient with immediately after perusing a gun forum and listening to a guy tell them to buy a PG-only shotgun? Unless they're proficient, they're a liability, and that could end up making them dead.

I can play my Stratocaster behind my back, but it doesn't mean I'm going to tell everybody they need to do so or that it's preferable to the standard way of playing.

BTW, since you seem to be pushing for some sort of superiority, you are correct, I am indeed an ignorant kid, having just retired from a military career with plenty of combat medals in my own shadow box. Been there, done that, got the VA disability rating to boot. It's amazing who one just might bump into on a gun forum, isn't it? So do be careful, and watch the personal attacks and threats, they're not conducive to longevity on a privately-owned website. See you downstream. :D
 
Clyde Barrow might be considered an expert on the use of the compact shotgun in close-up interpersonal dispute type situation, and he didn't use a PGO or give a rat's rectum about legal barrel length or l.o.a. His "whippit" (as in whip it out) A5 had a buttstock cut off as short as the mechanism would allow. He could have used a pump gun cut down to PGO with a bbl cut off even with a 5 shot mag, but he kept a useable (if short) stock. A 12 ga 3" mag has about the same recoil energy as a .375 mag. Would you want to shoot a .375 H&H with a pistol grip?
 
more b/s personal attacks on peoples charactor.... i dont carry concealed carry, and im glad tony that you follow me around like a lost puppy dog, it gives me a fullfilled feeling of satisfaction that "haters" want to chop up w/e i say. I read alot on firearms, and i am no damn expert by any means, i dont claim to be. I do however tryto be insightfull and not hurt anybody elses cause, but your pissing me off. Ok tony, lets pretend your a expert. Go get your pistol grip pump, and come to my town, step to my door and ill step to that same door with my shoulder mounted mossberg 835. We can see just how well your pistol grip gun holds its merrits against a shoulder mounted shotgun. If you dont like what i say then why the hell can't you ignore it? You think im a liberal or something, or do you just got a hardon for me? and i know its not gonna be comfortable, or even worth trying to buy a pistol gripped shotgun, every idiot i see with a pistol grip shotgun thinx they're really hot ****, but most are idiots.
 
more b/s personal attacks on peoples charactor.... i dont carry concealed carry, and im glad tony that you follow me around like a lost puppy dog, it gives me a fullfilled feeling of satisfaction that "haters" want to chop up w/e i say. I read alot on firearms, and i am no damn expert by any means, i dont claim to be. I do however tryto be insightfull and not hurt anybody elses cause, but your pissing me off. Ok tony, lets pretend your a expert. Go get your pistol grip pump, and come to my town, step to my door and ill step to that same door with my shoulder mounted mossberg 835. We can see just how well your pistol grip gun holds its merrits against a shoulder mounted shotgun. If you dont like what i say then why the hell can't you ignore it? You think im a liberal or something, or do you just got a hardon for me? and i know its not gonna be comfortable, or even worth trying to buy a pistol gripped shotgun, every idiot i see with a pistol grip shotgun thinx they're really hot ****, but most are idiots
Click to expand...

I most certainly hope you are not talking to me. But I have a feeling that you are since I didn't see any other Tony's in this thread. Even though it is now 4 days after the fact.

First off, if you have no experience with a pistol grip shotgun, why in the hell are you offering an opinion on one? I can read about being an astronaut, should I then be qualified to offer advice to a pilot who is thinking of applying to NASA to become an astronaut?

Secondly and most importantly....are you challenging me to a gun fight? The level of your intelligence is really shown in that statement. I regard that as a blatant threat.

Third, and not so important...more irony of a person that can't spell calling someone else an idiot.

Almost forgot; who's following who? I was in this thread before you and your "advice"
 
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i have a pistol grip shotgun that i shoot pretty regularly. that doesnt make me a damn idiot or make me think im hot ****. its a fun gun to have and easier to conceal than a full sized, looks damn cool, and a hell of alot more powerful than any pistol. its about as useful as a S&W 500 or Desert Eagle .50. got somethin bad to say about me? lets hear it
 
De gustibus non desputandum. (There is no disputing taste.) If someone likes a pistol grip 12 ga more power to 'em. I'll keep the stock on mine. I also like 211 Steel Reserve, which evoked a puking smiley on another forum. If we all liked the same thing there wouldn't be enough to go around.
 
211s are my favorite. cant beat the 8.1% alchy in a tall boy. i like my shotguns with stocks too. but i have a pistol grip and its just as fun to shoot.
 
Yes, irony is fun, isnt it?
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Touche, although a spelling mistake by virtue of overzealous typing is not quite the same as multiple cases of simply not knowing how to spell and calling others idiots.


The guys that tested the folding pistol grip stock that I first mentioned in the thread are probably idiots trying to be cool too:rolleyes: , but at least they did try shooting with it before giving any recommendation.

http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Company/TestReport.htm
 
Revjen-"Clyde Barrow might be considered an expert on the use of the compact shotgun in close-up interpersonal dispute type situation, and he didn't use a PGO or give a rat's rectum about legal barrel length or l.o.a. His "whippit" (as in whip it out) A5 had a buttstock cut off as short as the mechanism would allow. He could have used a pump gun cut down to PGO with a bbl cut off even with a 5 shot mag, but he kept a useable (if short) stock. A 12 ga 3" mag has about the same recoil energy as a .375 mag. Would you want to shoot a .375 H&H with a pistol grip?"
Very true about his auto (Model 11 and A5) Whipits. He did however have at least one PGO, I believe a Remington 17, Buck had a Winchester 16 ga. I had been researching and writing an article on guns of the motor bandits, but when my computer died last month lost everything (can't find my written notes) and have to start from scratch. Anyhow, B&C resources have a lot of varying accounts when it comes to weapon related details, but I did come across an article years ago I have since been unable to locate (perhaps it was on Oklahombres site). This pistol grip pump, Clyde was able to swing his hip and it would jump into his waiting hand. Another source indicated a zippered compartment on his trousers for a shotgun. This would be the most likely candidate.
Of course, both he and Bonnie's prefered street cannons were the autos with a portion of stock remaining, rubber from an inner tube tacked down forming a loop to slip over the shoulder, under a coat. The weapon was already shouldered. Some reported that this was merely for retention purposes and he would tug the strap loose, but I think he had enough savvy to realize keeping it shouldered was not only faster for the first shot, but far more controllable, quick and accurate. I mean he and an accomplice put 10 slugs into the head and neck of one lawman in Joplin. That's not hipshooting.

Anyway I think his Whipits would make excellent PDW's even today. Maybe better than the Witness Protection 12 ga. 870's with 12.5" barrels and hogleg grips, carried barrel up under strong arm. Instead of simply raising like a whipit, left hand grabs forearm, unsnaps and pulls outward, while the right unsnaps the grip strap. No way in hell I for one would keep a round chambered in such a carry position, so add to that time to rack the slide. I have to admit the Marshal's W.P. shotgun rigs are well designed and extremely concealable, but for me would just as soon have Clyde's configuration. (Off topic, but I always though chopping an auto on either end was disasterous to reliability, whether recoil or gas operated. But would bet my bottom dollar Barrow's ran flawlessly or he would not have used them). Lastly if he were around today, I think he'd favor the Saiga folder, 12 or 20, cut short as the entry model. Actually instead of acquiring the PG and FS parts (though installation would present no problem to him) he'd probably just remove 1/2-2/3 of the standard stock and make a whipit of it.
Clyde is more well known for his Scatterguns (what HE called his sawed off BARs) than what we call scatterguns. But the shotguns really were his bread and butter, they used 20s, 16s, 12s, even a 10ga. Win. Lever action riot gun. Great point you made about Clyde's whipit's, because in fact it's the first thing I think of when talking about PG Pumps.
 
Mokumbear I really think you'd be a lot better off having a stock. I have used PG's and double PG's but always went back to traditional stocks. Some people may be proficient with this configuration, but I can't believe anyone would be better without a stock than with it. I do not understand where the savings in length comes into play other than in storage and concealment. There are stances and positions to use with a riot gun that make it no easier to disarm than a handgun and move anywhere yet bring it to target instantly.
Just telling you my experiences. I never found it painful or extremely innacurate to have pistol grips, but it was too slow in every way, way too slow to be counted on for self defense. For me.
 
tony, i like how you can blast on everything i say, and suddenly everything you say is golden. No its no challenge, cause getting into a gunfight with some idiot online whos probably a 17 year old kid and thinx hes got all the answers to life, aint worth it. Screw this thread, and ill let you think you are king with your pistol grip pump.
 
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