Cross-draw? Sure, why not.

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shield20 ~

I've carried in the appendix position for over five years now, in an IWB rig. The number of days I've gone unarmed I can count on one hand. The number of people who have "made" me I can count on one finger (that was my mom, hugging me unexpectedly around the waist). Cross-draw and appendix are nearly identical in how concealed the gun is, so all I can say is that from my experience this is a very concealable method of carry.

Of course, I wear women's clothes rather than guy's clothes, but I think most people would acknowledge that women's clothing is generally more problematic for concealment. :) (Thinner materials, tighter fits, and guys look at a woman's overall shape whereas few people notice a guy's overall shape.)

Depending on the weather, I conceal my firearm with zippered fleece vests, or loose buttoned vests, or pullover sweaters, or cardigans, or pullover sweatshirts, or zippered sweatshirts, or untucked loose tee shirts, or untucked camp shirts, or tight tank tops under loose overshirts. Sometimes I use my holster's tuckable feature, and wear a loose but tucked-in blouse or tee shirt -- sometimes with an open vest, sometimes without.

Some methods of concealment are slower than others, of course. But from most of the untucked options, my draw for an A-zone hit at 7 yards is consistently better than 1.8 seconds, measured by an electronic timer. From the tucked options, it varies from there up to 2.5 seconds. Again, these are consistent times, not some occasional fluke time I got once. I'm not even sure what my best-time-ever from concealment was. They are mostly two-hand draws.

One hand draws are slower but not impossible with any of the options I use. One hand weak hand draws are slower but not impossible with any of the options I use.

This is what I do to draw from appendix carry. Most of this should be applicable to cross-draw provided you don't get left/right mixed up.

To draw while wearing a zippered vest or jacket, I simply yank the zipper down with my left hand and then fling the cover back with my right. For a pullover, I grab the loose material over the gun with my left hand and pull it up while drawing with my right. Of course, you can always treat a zippered or buttoned garment the same as a pullover -- provided the material is cooperative. I've tested just about everything I wear.

For one hand draws, I have two options. Option one is to pull up the material with my right hand until it is near my armpit, slam my elbow down to hold it in place, and then draw the gun while keeping my elbow as close to my side as possible. This sounds slow but is surprisingly fast. The other option is simply to snake my hand in, draw, and then snake the drawn gun back out the same way my hand went it. This is slower but sneakier, and I think the sneakiness might be a good thing sometime.

Weak hand draws are similar. If I have a zipper and it is only halfway up, I can draw by reaching in behind it without disturbing my outer clothing. Or I can pull the zipper down and then draw. With a pullover, I can pull the material up with my left hand, again pinning it under my right elbow, then draw with my left hand. Or I can snake my left hand into position, get a complete grip on the gun, and snake the gun back out again.

Buttoned shirts or vests I simply treat as if they are pullovers. But in extremis, I can simply yank them open hard and let the buttons fall where they may.

Carrying in front of the hip isn't for everyone. But it is definitely a viable technique.

pax
 
Thanks Pax - I got a LOT of good info - and a few smiles :) from your post. While I usually keep my covering garment open, there are times where a pull-over garment is also my only choice - and I am faced with a draw similiar to what you describe - at that times the trade offs would seem to favor CD (appendix).

Sounds viable - it seems I may have to find a good holster and give a try!
 
Cross-draw is how I do it when I wear my SP-101 on a belt. It's by far the most comfortable and comforting method I've used. I use a FIST clip-on IWB holster (the cheapo #1), and I clip it between my belt and pants between the first and second belt loops, weak side. It does not poke my less than large belly, even when sitting, walking, climbing stairs, etc.

For spring, winter, or fall, I've always got some kind of jacket or sweatshirt at least. The good thing about wearing the gun in front is that I can easily look down and see if I'm printing without having to paw at my gun.

And I think having my hand on the butt of my revolver in this position is no more conspicuous than if it were on my rear of my strongside hip; probably less so. Clearing the cover garment is a whole lot easier, too.

~Ichiro
 
Skyguy ~

Glock 26 (baby Glock in 9mm), with Crimson Trace laser built-in. I chose it because I like the 9mm round (cheap, easy to shoot, acceptable for defense, did I mention cheap so I could shoot a lot?), because Glocks are very reliable and low-maintenance, and because the short barrel made it quite concealable. The 26 is also scary accurate.

pax
 
Please respond where members can get the "do or die" training you offer? What is your contact information? What do you charge for this training? How long is the course?

Will I need a laser on my gun?

Willing to travel.
 
I have used cross-draw for my 3" K-frames for those long stretches behind the wheel and at a desk sitting. It works well for me. I also carry IWB at times.

In the winters, springs, and falls of the Finger Lakes and Niagara regions of NY, with a coat or sweatshirt or cardigan, it's much faster to access than behind the hip, especially with layers. All you need do is lift the front and yank out as opposed to swepping stuff back or groping under/around.

FIST and Del Fatti both have good coss-draw/IWB convertible designs. Waiting 18 months for Matt's work is a trial, but well worth the custom work he does.
 
I find cross draw easyer to conceal when I'm carrying my sigma. I use an iwb at the 11:00 position and the grip is pressed into my stomach a bit. I wear a T-shirt between the gun and body and wear a golf shirt tucked in over the gun. I have not been "made" this way and am of average build. 5'11" 210 lbs. I do need a better holster though, as the uncle mikes cheapo doesn't stay in place well. Draw is MUCH faster than from the front pocket with my p11, and drawing while seated is better than any other carry method I've tried. I still find owb at 4:00 the most comfortable, but I can't wear owb while at work.
 
Cross draw worked for Roy Chapman in IPSC Tom Campbell used an odd rig as well.

Cross draw worked for Roy Chapman in early IPSC. Tom Campbell used an odd rig as well.

My point is mostly that even for Cooper's original concept of practical competition the starting position influenced the rig. Many of the mentions on this thread have an implicit or explicit starting position. Let me specify a start and I'll show you a cavalry draw as the fastest choice.

Myself I carry a full size 1911 strong side hip IWB but I don't kid myself it's a fast rig sitting down in a deep stuffed arm chair - indeed when I was optimizing for draw from a seated position with good concealment I did use a cavalry draw - don't do that anymore but if I needed to I would.

I don't know anything better from the driver's seat than a cross draw wrapped around the car seat belt as from Horseshoe Leather or maybe a Safepacker or some such. Course then again a carbine in the roof next to the visors might be the way to go?
 
Get a fanny pack and forget about it. I can access the gun prior to needing it without anyone knowing. I can fight,poke,stab,slash,mace,ect with both hands if needed (and not have my left so low that an overhand right knocks me out as in the picture). Nobody knows I have a gun in the pack anyway. I can wear it with anything. It is easy to access in cars, or anywhere else.

Bottom line is do what you are the most comfortable with and stay with it as practiced. When the poop hits the fan you will be ready either way.
 
Please respond where members can get the "do or die" training you offer? What is your contact information? What do you charge for this training? How long is the course?

Will I need a laser on my gun?

Willing to travel.
Click to expand...

Skyguy is a hth/sd specialist. No need to travel he's right in your backyard.

He shows respect and you don't Brownie. So he'll probaly not talk to you.

But just in case you bump into him here's a heads up.

I've seen 'you' in action and I've seen 'him' in action. And the fair truth is that he'd beat you like a rented mule.
The man is a hard core Nidan.
 
Skyguy is a hth/sd specialist. No need to travel he's right in your backyard.

He shows respect and you don't Brownie. So he'll probaly not talk to you.

But just in case you bump into him here's a heads up.

I've seen 'you' in action and I've seen 'him' in action. And the fair truth is that he'd beat you like a rented mule.
The man is a hard core Nidan

Not bad for a first post, probably Skyguy using a alter ego to make people believe he's the real deal.

If you've seen me like you say, pm me with a name or I'll take you as just a first time poster who can't expose his real self and hence will be considered a BSter like Skyguy.
 
This thread has a lot of good information in it... earlier. The last several posts are utterly off-topic.

Engage in PMs if you can't stay on topic, friends.

And please do not make personal attacks.
 
Hey Folks, Been away for a few days...

Sky, Thanks for the kind words. Shield, I am glad that you saw some merit in some of the points we were espousing.

My intention was/is not to try to sway people away from strongside over to CD, but simply to correct some of the disinformation that has been spread concerning crossdraw carry.

If you are shooting in a "practical" match or on a square range or in a coarse with a traditional "vanilla" instructor you will find a definate bias against CD.
However crossdraw does have its place, and is a viable method of carry.

As a side note, I have found this method of carry particularly preferable to women with high waists. Even more so if they tend to be large in the bust.
For this build strong side carry is very difficult unless the holster is made with a significant "drop". "Dropping" the holster sufficiently may make it marginal for concealment and uncomfortable at best for sitting.
A good crossdraw setup can alleviate this aggravating situation, and allow a person so built to carry "On body" rather than tucked in a purse or stuffed in the glovebox.


M
 
Skyguy, Thank you for a really good post. I can't find anything to disagree with. In the olden days I used to do cowboy fast draw strong side, of course. But now adays I carry cross draw for all of the reasons you pointed out.

At my age I don't expect to win many fast draw shoot-outs from either side.
 
Several years ago, my right hand was injured. Since I'm a "righty", I was placed on "light-duty" status (as a LEO). I still wanted to carry, so I taught myself how to be a "lefty"....but with a "twist" involved.

Instead of buying a "lefty" IWB holster for off-duty carry, I used my "righty" holster. At first, it seemed awkward to draw as a "lefty", especially since the butt of the pistol was facing forward. With some serious practise, however, it started to feel normal! It was also AS quick to draw that way, and since I was shooting as a "lefty", there was no sweeping of the pistol across the target.

I got so used to carrying my pistol that way that I continued to do so, even after my right hand had fully healed. I began practising a "lefty" draw, with a transition over to a "righty" shooting hold. With practise, it wasn't awkward, and was AS FAST as a right draw/shoot! Besides, all of the practise as a "lefty" was invaluable, for I was "suddenly" ambidextrous!

FACT: Most people are right-handed. Carrying on the left side MIGHT give you a slight advantage, in that other people will assume that you're right handed. Of course, being ambidextrous DEFINITELY gives you a slight advantage!

It's kind of funny, for if I try to throw a baseball as a lefty, I still look kind of "girlish"! I can't do SQUAT, other than shoot, with my left hand! HMM! My "stats" would read,
"Bats right, throws right, shoots left OR right!"
 
Instead of buying a "lefty" IWB holster for off-duty carry, I used my "righty" holster. At first, it seemed awkward to draw as a "lefty", especially since the butt of the pistol was facing forward.
Click to expand...

That's a crossdraw carry....and it's good that it worked for your situation.

It's also a fine example of how crossdraw is the best way to carry for weak hand draw.
Stats show that many shootings involve wounds to the strong side arms and/or hands.

Carrying concealed and then trying to draw weak hand from behind the strong side hip is, indeed, very difficult and slow.
.
 
Cross draw for the broken boned!

Is it too late to chime in?
I recently broke my right collar bone, and being right-handed I am forced to try cross draw. There was no way I can reach back for a strong side draw. So...it feels comfortable and safe. Thanks for the insights. Any thoughts on a good holster for my j frame?
Thanks.
 
I haven't read anyone mentioning the use of a shoulder holster as it pertains to cross draw as opposed to a waist holster. As far as comfort goes, you can't beat it. Your weapon won't dig in to your hip at all. What about tactically? What about as far as concealability?
 
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