Cross-draw? Sure, why not.

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My crossdraw holster is a Galco. It's form fitted to the 1911 and covers the triggerguard but has no thumbstrap. It does not conceal well for my skinny frame 6'-1"/170lbs. I have no belly so it does not hold tight to my body but I like that as it makes it even easier to grab. I could't get away with trying to conceal it under a suit jacket but a heavy winter coat is fine or no coat in the car (yet not technically concealed either!) I rarely use it but for those times it suits me pefectly for my needs.

My everyday is a Ted Blocker (LFI Rig) It's a form fitted IWB with velcro sewed to a leather tab which mates anywhere on my velcro lined belt, and no clip to show if I have to raise my arms for some reason. It does have a thumbsnap and good, I've found that my condition 1 carry has went to condition 0(!) twice on it's own (during high activity) so yay thumbstrap for peace of mind. All in all it's a sweet setup and sucks up real tight to virtually disappear under even the lightest of covershirts.
 
I often carry cross draw. I find its easier to conceal a large frame 6 inch Smith that way.
Most of the reasons listed here for not carrying that way, I find bogus.
 
I carry strong-side appendix. It's every bit as fast as hip or behind-hip carry and has all the advantages of cross-draw.

Pax
But, is it comfortable when bending and seated?
It's not comfortable for me. It digs into my leg and ribs and is covered by the seatbelt.

Seems like a lot of women prefer a purse/bag type carry method.
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Skyguy ~

I've never had a problem with it. When I wear it on my hip, I look like an overweight hippo with a tumor, and I constantly bump into things. When I put it behind my hip, I can't draw easily because it hurts my shoulder. And in both cases, the grip digs into my ribs while the muzzle end digs into my leg. Probably a side effect of being short-waisted, with curves. :)

In front of the hip is very comfortable and I've never had a problem with it digging into me at all.

Oh, re purse carry. I've done it, once in a blue moon. More often, if I need to put the gun in a bag, I'll wear a fanny pack. I'm NOT a fan of off-body carry, though I understand that some people are willing to put up with the weight, the hassle, the slowness, and the danger of carrying that way.

pax
 
I often carry in a cross draw. During the winter when sweaters and bulky parkas are a neccesity a good cross draw is right there at my jackets opening instead of behind my hip and under a sweater.

Just my .02.

EricN
 
Skyguy,


Just couldn't resist this one! Good post.

To all you armchair experts who would denounce a carry method without having spent time in research, actual carry, draw practice, and experimentation with multiple holsters...

First, to each his own, it doesn't matter to me if your personal carry method is via rectal supository. If it works for you, so be it. And if you haven't personally spent the time, then be a little more respectful of those who have.

Let me correct a few misconceptions.

Crossdraw carry was often the preferred carry method by those who did carry and much of law enforcement up to the early to mid 60s.

Two major reasons for the CD method fading from acceptance.
A) Advancement of "retention" holsters in the law enforcement arena.
B) The decision by "safety" officials in the (then) relatively new sport of Practical shooting to ban or limit CD because when drawing, the muzzle could sweep other people before being aligned with the target, whereas mandatory strongside meant the muzzle came out perpandicular to the "FiringLine". Prior to this the Vast MAjority of competition rigs were Crossdraw.

As to the gungrab issue...

Shield and others have mentioned the "interview position" and rightly so. Yet they fail to apply it's use as appropriate in their thoughts concerning Cross draw.

First when we use the termCross Draw are not talking about "Weak side" Carry where the gun is carried at the 9 o'clock (Righties) position with grip reversed. Most of the argument expressed against CD result from this form of carry.

[/B]Cross Draw carries the gun in the 10-11 o'clock position.

This places the gun flatter against the body with the butt closer to the centerline of the body.

From typical defensive stances such as the "Secret Service", "Interview",
and "Jack Benny" ,CD is as fast, on the average, or faster than "strong side" carry from concealment. In all the defensive stances your hands are kept close to the centerline of the body.
In some cases such as the popular "Secret Service" stance the hand is within a couple of inches of touching the butt of a CD carried pistol.
If you are an advocate of a "bladed" stance like "Shield" (and myself for that matter) with your weak side lforward then the CD shows another of its strengths.
When the weak side is forward, a properly carried CD pistol will be positioned in such a way that as you simply clear leather the muzzle will be in alignment with the threat. Less motion, hence faster than strongside.

Conversely if you stand square to the target as so many have been used to doing by range constraints then the strong side is in alignment. But as soon as you blade your body as in a weaver then the CD gains an advantage.

As far as a Gun grab, this too has ben misrepresented by those carrying like a Cavalryman!! With true Cross Draw carry the butt does NOTface your advasary. Standing square (not suggested) at worst, the gun must be grabbed sideways. When you stand bladed the butt is pointed away from the BG and the slant of the holster further makes the grab more difficult.
In a multiple opponent scenario with adversaries front and rear the CD has actually shown itself to be Very defendable. In fact in testing, a Bianchi 111
frequently beat out level 2 strongside retention holsters in this scenario.

After all that, I have to say that I do not currently carry CD. Why?
Well my duty rig is strong side and therefore I carry strongside.
Otherwise I would have no reservation about carrying crossdraw and have done so in the past as an everyday method.

Try it, experiment with various holsters, then form an opinion!!

Mick
 
Mick/Sky Guy - what is your perferred method of concealing a CD piece? Will an unzippered vest/jacket cover the piece OK? I was giving this even more thought this AM while putting on my HK - and I do see some (more) of the good points you guys have mentioned, and some of my bad 'points' not being so...bad. My biggest "problem" has been the butt of a strong side pistol printing; while my new Kramer/P2000 combo takes care of this nicely (w/o having to go to some too-small subcompact), I was wondering just how a CD would work out. I no longer have the concerns of plainclothes matching my duty position, so it is CCW carry only. Also, what are some of the better CD holsters worth trying?
 
Mick/Sky Guy - what is your perferred method of concealing a CD piece?

My method is in front of the point of my hip so that the butt lies canted forward and it's flat against my stomach. Purposely, the barrel doesn't cover my 'stuff'. Easy to see that in post #1.
Holster, height, cant is a personal preference. I use a tensioned slide or a thumb break slide. Depends.
I like as little holster as possible.

My cross-draw carry opinion comes from bad experiences. I did the streets in plain clothes for ten years and I soon realized that duty/strong-side was easily detectable, hard to retain without both hands....and certainly not fast.
Didn't take long to realize that cheating and stealth works out there. The easiest and quickest way to my weapon was cross-draw....standing or seated.

Will an unzippered vest/jacket cover the piece OK?

Cover is easy. But just waist length won't work on owb. Given the seasons; a jacket or shirt with bottom buttoned, loose t-shirt, shirt, sweater, sweat shirt.
Whatever.......because cross-draw conceals pretty easily.
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Here now :D Lets talk about the picture of the guy who is carrying cross draw and the tactics we would use to defeat an advisary like him.:cool:

First off it is obvious he is a strong advisary and most of us wouldn't be able to physicaly win against him face to face. So a gun is the only protection legaly that you would have. Just the look of this person when it goes to court will help you prove you were in fear of your life.

Any act of aggression that threatens your life would probably be looked at by your fellow citizens as reasonable just by looking at the aggresive look of this picture.

So how do you win a gun fight against this guy?:)

25
 
Your best bet is an ambush.
How do I know? Because it's me.


I love the response.

Im new to all this and not just this web site so im really talking out my back side (i can say that right?). But it would seem for someone of my build (the bog ol gut and butt) if drawing from my waist i would want im peice on the same side as my drawing hand. i just have to much surface to go around. But it seems a shoulder carry of cd would be very fast and benificial for me as well. Im a big guy and therfore anywhere besides just behind my right hip or under my left arm (carring right handed) would be my best choice, would you agree?
 
Your best bet is an ambush.
How do I know? Because it's me.

I came to the same conclusion:D If I ever get into a fight it will be the same, ambush.:D :)

Ever think that looking to strong might work against you? Some people say look like a hard target and people will leave you alone but looking hard means the attack will be an ambush rather than a confrontation.

I choose to look like I don't own anything and wear clothes that yell that out to the casual man.

25
 
If it makes it harder for a BG to get it from me I'm all for it! As stated it makes snatching from behind much harder. Great with a sport coat.
 
Mick,

Obviously, you know what's up.

Your post #26 is outstanding and informative. Lots of info there and it's well deserving of a re-read.

Right on!
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So whadda ya do when the boogy man shows up in the middle of the night?

You don't need a cross-draw or a strong side draw now, your piece is already in your hand.
But it's dark, really dark. You can barely see your gun let alone your sights.

Then, there he is.....the boogy man, gun and all.
You can't just start shooting in the boogy man's general direction. You need to know where the shots will go. You need good hits.
You need accuracy; center of mass accuracy.....in the dark.

Then you realize that you've got Lasergrips. You can look over the gun and focus on the boogy man. You can see the dot.
And it all comes back to you......'just place the dot and you'll hit that spot'.

And it works. See the boogy man? See the dot?

:)




DSC03189.JPG

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Zero distance

Start from zero distance (grappling etc) and try a speed-rock with cross draw...mhm.
In a car however I see the benefits of cd.
 
Where can one take these do or die self defense classes of yours? What do your charge for a few hours? A day?

I'm interested

Willing to travel :D
 
In my experience, after a week or so of trying, I couldn't get the gun to stay sufficiently concealed while positioned on the front half of my body when wearing an unzipped or buttoned jacket.

As was stated, a gust of wind flipping the coat open exposes the entire front of your body to view but the gun behind the point of the hip is still shielded from view and has all the inherent weight of the garment fighting any further exposure.

Even in still or indoor conditions, just leaning forward or turning sharply to the right opens the coat and allows the gun butt to be open to view. Much less getting into your front left pants pocket (which I do with my left hand so as to leave my right (shooting) hand free to draw while thus momentarily encumbered. Were I a cop or someone who was unconcerned about casual exposure I suppose I wouldn't care, but there's no "up side" I could find in my trial of cd years ago for day-to-day carry that outweighed all the negatives I experienced. I do other things in the car to cope with the minor added complexity of drawing while belted in.

Thus I dismissed, for me, cd as a practical or useful option.

Obviously YMV'd. :)
 
You need accuracy; center of mass accuracy.....in the dark.

That boogey man of yours isn't in the dark. Unsighted or sighted fire would be no problem in that room.

Then you realize that you've got Lasergrips. You can look over the gun and focus on the boogy man. You can see the dot.

Ya, I can see the dot, I can also see your boogeyman quite nicely, thats not anywhere near dark nor would I need to use the sights. Were you trying to inference that without the laser we couldn't hit that boogeyman of yours?

Looks like another advertisement for the laser where it isn't needed.
 
I am still not sold on the concealment aspect of C-D either. HOW do you keep the gun covered yet still have fast access? You need the shirt/jacket buttoned, so do you use the weak hand to pull up the covering garment? Do you use IWB or OWB holster? Is getting the reload mag easy enough when it is hidden by a zippered jacket? (that is still located behind weak side hip correct?)
 
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