Crimes Stopped By Brandishing - Does Caliber Matter?

The only time I can think of not firing is holding a thief at gun point while waiting for law enforcement to come and take them away. In some places that action can also get you removed as well for the crime of brandishing a weapon.
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This is very true, know which States have a "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" laws, and how those laws are spelled out. In most States, in the event of a burglary, the homeowner can use deadly force in self-defense to defend himself and/or his family. However, in some States (such as Massachusetts), a homeowner must retreat during a burglary. I don't understand the rationale behind such a law - if you have a wife and kids in the house, how could you possibly have time to get everyone safely out of the house without confrontation if that burglar meant business and had every intention of harming anyone inside? If someone breaks into my house, I can only assume the perpetrator, having already crossed the line of breaking in, has every intention of snuffing anyone out who gets in his way. This is one case where brandishing and firing a lethal shot should never be questioned.

I was in a tricky situation myself about 10 years ago, I was driving home late at night after work, roads were empty for the most part. I passed a couple of guys on sport bikes driving 30mph in a 55mph zone (used my signal for passing, and passed them as courteously as possible), and within seconds discovered there were 10 other guys on sport bikes (they were driving with their headlights and tail lights off) about 100 yards in front of them. These guys drew me into the situation intentionally, they had planned this out, and I found myself surrounded by a dozen maniac punk kids on sport bikes looking to cause trouble, possibly smash up my car, rough me up, and steal whatever they could; they tried to get me to veer off the road but I kept going, the chase went on for nearly 10 minutes. I was fresh out of college when this happened, no way my '93 Cutlass could make any distance with sport bikes capable of 0-100mph in 5 or 6 seconds. They ended up busting my windshield but quickly sped off when they noticed me on the cell phone talking with the 911 operator. I keep thinking back on the situation, if I had pulled out my M1911 to scare them off, or started firing, would I have actually written my own death certificate? What if 4 or 5 of the guys were carrying, I would have surely been shot and left for dead. While a firearm might be a great theft deterrent and an effective way to snuff out a burglar inside your own home, you can see how a situation could escalate and end up much worse by taking "stand your ground" measures with a firearm. The only situation that I could ever contemplate using a firearm for last-resort self-defense is in my own home to defend my family and myself from a life or death situation. In a public situation (i.e., masked bandit robbing a bank teller at gunpoint), the only real "acceptable" solution is to call and wait for law enforcement to take care of the situation, trying to play hero usually only does more harm than good, plus you may end up serving a long jail sentence as a result.
 
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are you talking "brandishing" just to do it and your not willing to take it the next step - do to whatever reason?

or whipping out your gun scarring the crap out of the BG so he leaves? and you reholster? cus that's not brandishing that's drawing

just saying
 
I've always thought of "brandishing" as an act of openly displaying a firearm outside the holster aggressively in a manner to threaten or warn someone...
 
I've always thought of "brandishing" as an act of openly displaying a firearm outside the holster aggressively in a manner to threaten or warn someone...
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Brandishing is a crime. Not all displaying of a firearm, even if aggressive, is necessarily brandishing.


A knowledgeable cop in N. Nevada (LE dept chief instructor, and civilian CCW instructor) told me that drawing a gun when an attack looked imminent would be his recommendation, since once the attack began you might not have the opportunity. Of course, drawing too soon could be brandishing.

To answer the question, a drawn gun can't be a deterrent if it isn't drawn soon enough. AND, as stated, there are risks of being accused of brandishing--and if Bubba calls 911 first, you will be.

Interesting that Nevada law states that there have to be at least two witnesses before you can be arrested for pointing a gun at another person. That could certainly work in your favor in certain situations.:cool:
 
Well, if you need a real life situation I had 5 home invaders. When I appeared in the doorway they started for me. I raised an old Colt 32ACP aiming for the head of the first perp closest to me. They had left the sliding glass door in the dining room open and the second they saw the gun they all spun around, showing me their backs and ran out the door, none of them ever said a word.
Does that make the 32ACP a good choice? Hardly. Did it save me that day? Yes, I'm pretty sure that at a 15' range I could of made easy head shots if I had to, and I was prepared to do exactly that if they got much closer. With a 32 ACP and five perps head shots are your only choice, a body shot isn't going to stop them.
I believe a 32ACP has more foot pounds of energy than the old Navy 36's Wild Bill Hickok used, as did many other early Western gunmen. If I recall shooting the other guy right between the eyes was the way they did it back then, probably because of the much less powerful handguns than what we have today.
Once again, more is MORE but any gun is better than nothing. If the Govt Model is too heavy to haul around it won't do you much good back at home in a drawer or closet. The gun that saves your life is the one you have at the moment. I think the 32 ACP was the WWII issue caliber/handgun for U.S. Army generals. I might be wrong, it might have been the 380 ACP- same model Colt.
 
I find it amusing that so many people make the argument that the caliber and hit probability are mutually exclusive. These people need to spend more time at the range and less time behind a keyboard.

For anyone of even modest experience level, it is far easier to hit what you aim at with a 1911 (or equivalent) than it it with an LCPj-frame (or equivalent) .
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You can be amused all you want, but it just demonstrates your lack of experience. I carry a S&W .40 and a .32 Beretta 1935. Followup shots are much more rapid and more accurate with the .32 ACP. Less recoil means you are back on target faster and can pull the trigger more rapidly. It is just a fact.

Moreover...The fact is that if you miss with a .22 or a .32, you still missed. If you hit COM with a .45, it is going to be a whole lot more efffective than that .22 or .32.
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Assuming the guy is not out of his mind, in which case, only a head shot will do the trick.

In today's world some criminals think the size of your gun in directly related to your "manhood". Those people will see a small .22 or .25 and think you are weak and advance.
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No, I don't believe that at all. Most criminals are cowards. Why do you think there are so few home invasions? Most criminals want an easy score, they do not want a gun fight. Muggers pick easy targets, not 6'7" football players.
 
I think Davem's experience perfectly illustrates why "brandishing" a gun may not only be legally justifiable, but preferable than justifiably shooting someone. In some scenarios, shooting one assailant may lead to the rest of the group attacking. Aiming a gun at the leader may result in the pack retreating. But, you better be justified and willing to shoot if necessary. Every situation is different and you cannot make a blanket statement disapproving of someone's decision to aim a gun at a bad guy and force him to retreat.
 
This is one of the most opinion laden subjects possible.
In my long life, I have shown a pistol three times to ward off attacks.
Just the presence of the gun changed the minds, quickly, of the would-be attackers and they left pronto.
Same gun all three times, a Ruger Super Single-Six .22 LR.
Nobody wants to get shot with anything, regardless of caliber.
Bad guys are not very smart but they are smart enough to know they don't want to get shot.
My CCW is a pocket sized .22 SA.
My theory is a defense gun to be usable must be available and comfortable to carry. And a concealable gun must be......well.....small enough to be concealable.
 
I'm not going to go so far as to disparage anyone's choice of CCW, even small guns have their place and uses.

However, I will say that I think counting on the "intimidation value" of any gun is a very poor idea. Through their very nature, violent criminals are far more likely to be in altered states of mind, whether through mental disease or chemical stimulation, than normal people. That being the case, it isn't all that unlikely that a violent criminal would be less frightened of a gun pointed at him than a normal, rational person would be. If the criminal is scared off at the sight of your gun, great. Just be prepared for the criminal to not be as frightened of a gun as you are.

Also, I think the assertation that a BG will be more likely to be scared off by a big gun than a little gun is based on flawed logic. If the BG is irrational enough that he isn't intimidated by having a gun pointed at him in the first place, then I find it unlikely that the size of that gun would be of much consequence to him. As has been stated before, no rational person wants to get shot, but I doubt that an irrational person is going to stop and examine the size of your bore.
 
perhaps I was misunderstood... my thoughts here are not just the bore or caliber, but actually the size of the gun... & actually the guns visability to the BG... a larger ( lets say Berretta 92 F ? in polished nickel is likely going to be a bigger deterant than a flat black 1911... from the stand point that its more visible in the kind of light often chosen for these confrontations... in a dark alley, the bore ( or seeing that hollowpoint all the way down in the chamber ) is going to be way less of a deterant than a polished & easily visible "big gun"

I still stand by my post, that I'm 100% sure that using a smaller gun ( I used the NAA mini as an example before, but I feel a tiny 45 acp will suffer the same fate ), will have a higher percentage of actually having to be used, than a larger more visible gun
 
perhaps I was misunderstood... my thoughts here are not just the bore or caliber, but actually the size of the gun... & actually the guns visability to the BG... a larger ( lets say Berretta 92 F ? in polished nickel is likely going to be a bigger deterant than a flat black 1911... from the stand point that its more visible in the kind of light often chosen for these confrontations... in a dark alley, the bore ( or seeing that hollowpoint all the way down in the chamber ) is going to be way less of a deterant than a polished & easily visible "big gun"
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I can kind of see your point I suppose, a big gun is more likely to be instantly recognized as a gun than a small one. Actually, my comments weren't really directed at you so much as they were at those about seeing bigh HP bullets through the end of the barrel. My point is that I very much doubt that the size of the gun is going to make much difference to the BG so long as it is easily recognized as a gun.

It's really kind of a moot point though. I'm not going to count on any gun intimidating an attacker, regardless of whether the gun is a NAA mini or a Desert Eagle. Intimidation value is pretty near the bottom of my list of concerns for a CCW.
 
I live in a state where once someone breaks into your home you can pretty much shoot and no questions asked but I realize other states are different. Years ago I was up North and same thing except that time there were just two perps. That time I had a long barrel revolver and once again they turned and ran without saying a word.
But, there was yet another time, when I was in sort of a low rent district where I thought I heard a gun fight going on outside the building I was living in. Small caliber stuff and a Ka-pow, Ka-pow. Sure sounded like gunfire. Then some guy gasping for air and gurgling, and then tires screeching. I called the cops but they found zippo. In any event that was one experience I don't want to relive, pretty bad and I didn't want to poke my head out the window to see if I could see anything.
As a general rule, if you can get away, do so- you can always buy more "stuff". If you have to shoot to save your life, well then so be it, start shooting and don't stop. Pretty grim business.
 
I think that alot of potential crimes are defeated or prevented by merely the sight of an armed target.

Criminals that prey on innocent people are bullies, and in my experience a bully will back down when challenged.
That being said, I hate for my last thoughts to be "gee, I wish I had a bigger gun."
 
I raised an old Colt 32ACP aiming for the head of the first perp closest to me. They had left the sliding glass door in the dining room open and the second they saw the gun they all spun around, showing me their backs and ran out the door, none of them ever said a word.
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Good report.

If it happens again, could you try pointing a little lower, near the region more commonly associated with procreational activities and see if they leave slower, the same, or faster ---while paying attention to any verbal exclamations (should they be in a commonly spoken language). Those kind of stats always interst folks. And please report back. Thanks. :D

PS: The test is only valid if you use the same .32ACP.
 
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There is a big difference if you pull out say a KelTec 32 gun that is black and small looking or a stainless 357 magnum revolver( or a large caliber semi auto for that matter).

He can see the bullets in the revolver,

He can see the hollowpoints that are his ticket to a world of hurt he never knew he was walking towards until you just showed him the ticket window is open and ready to recieve him.

It really depends on how committed the bad guy is to the crime he wants to commit.

I would never expect just showing a gun would stop a crime.

It's nice when that happens but you better use the most powerful caliber that you can shoot and carry well.

Downsizing calibers because you just want to scare a bad guy can get you killed.
 
You don't draw a weapon to show it, you draw it to use it. If they happen to calculate the odds and move on that's good, you win. If they decide to continue the offense you use the weapon of choice to end the threat. Larger calibers are prefered. I have drawn twice....both times at my home.....pants were filled.......threat was eliminated........police took care of the matter. By the grace of God no lives were lost. I prepare every day and hope for the same outcome.
 
If you pull that thing out, you'd better be ready to go to war. .454 or .17 derringer...don't count on "showing it" to end the event.
 
The caliber or size of the gun used to persuade the offender to leave may or may not matter... it just depends on the one needing persuading.

Stats won't help cause I doubt there are stats on this subject.

But, consider this, while many or most people would just run, regardless of the size of the weapon or cartridge used, SOME MAY NOT. And it’s better to have a serious weapon so those few that only respect large guns and ammo, do get to see that you do have such.

You see, most may be intimidated by a .25 auto, but a 12 gauge will cover a wider audience and convince them to participate in the fleeing.

And if they decide to still not flee, we the 12 will decide it for them.

Deaf
 
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