Creepy moment at the range today in CA

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It is good that bells and whistles went off, as well they should have when people approach you at a range and are curious about your weapons. After all, there are some less than desirable people who show up at the range.

You know there is an alternative to the possibility of the LEO trying to get you or your gun. I doubt he would have first commented about not being able to get FALs anymore before asking if it was new if he were actually trying to figure out if what you had was illegal. Another way of looking at it would be that since you already knew he was LEO (and he knew you knew) that he was subtly making you aware you should be cautious in how you answer questions from LEOs. If he really wanted to try to catch you with an illegal weapon, he would have probably started off with comments like, "Wow! Nice FAL. Is it new?" After he cuffed you, then he would have said, "too bad you can't get those anymore."

Another alternative is that the guy was just a curious sportsman like other people at the range.
 
Well...aint this interesting.....

fwiw-I hate LEO's. Sorry to any 'decent' ones out there but I've had my fill of backstabbing and harrasment.

bout '85 was fishing under a freeway overpass in Beaumont Tx where I lived...5 miles outside the city and no one there...couple of cops drive thru and see the handle of my knife sticking out of my britches...was a 5" knife with a 2.5" blade and 2.5" handle. They decided to confiscate it because it had a dual edge.

Stopped a Sherif to ask for some help and they read me the riot act wanting to search my car and such...I said "Hi, need a little help." He says "You got insurance on that car?" insurance had nothing to do with my need of aid-there had been no accident.

got more...want more? I'd rather shoot the BG and stuff him or them in a dumpster than call a LEO for help.

and BTW...I have no criminal record and once wantedto be a LEO. Diabetes and hearing loss stopped that.

Paranoid? I don't THINK so....reality bytes!
 
Well guys from the looks of these posts (and others I've seen on TFL) the liberals are winning. The population doesn't trust LEOs or like them (regardless if they are the good guy or not). At some point the good LEOs are going to get tired of the negative crap and criticism and hate the population. The liberals will gain the control they want when this is complete (the old divide and conquer), we are alsmost there. I have pretty much made up my mind this is where we are and were we are going, it is truly sad.
 
very odd question indeed. I shoot at a public range. Often there are LEOs there practicing. They shoot the breeze just like all the other folks. They don't ask leading questions. I'm sure that if they saw some suspicious person start up with a full auto AK47 they might decide to ask him a couple of questions.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
slabsides:
You shouldn't have to look much farther than the White House for that jawbone! ;)
Although I have no idea how you'll get it out of him!)
Sorry folks, I just couldn't resist...

If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
Click to expand...
 
slabsides:
You shouldn't have to look much farther than the White House for that jawbone! ;)
Although I have no idea how you'll get it out of him!)
Sorry folks, I just couldn't resist...

If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
Click to expand...
 
mrat, please, please listen to me carefully. I and many others here on TFL greatly appreciate the LEO's who make life better for all of us. We appreciate your service.

But, won't you consider carefully the message in some of these posts? The ones where bad service from LEO's have soured people ... well, you can't do much about that. Happens in every job / industry.

However, there are at least three policies that are driving LEO's and civilians apart, and it doesn't have anything to do with liberals:

1. No-knock warrants - these generate a lot of bad press for LEO's, and many of us consider them poor policy, and dangerous for both the LEO's and their targets.

2. Asset forfeiture - some LEO's may like all the goodies, but many of us see this as essentially the kind of theft you would expect in a Bananna Republic. This policy was poorly conceived, and generates hatred and distrust towards LEO's.

3. Chicken-sh** firearms laws - everything from Waco to the question in this thread. And, the difference now in 'allowed' firearms and firearm features between LEO's and civilians. Instead of tackling the problem of real BG's, it's easier to jerk someone around because they might have purchased their gun on the wrong day.


So, please, and I mean this sincerly, quit blaming liberals, 'cop-haters', and all the other excuses we hear. Back up for a moment, put yourself in the shoes of a civilian, and then ask yourself if these policies make sense. And, recognize that these policies do indeed give LEO's a very bad image.

Yes, many would require legislative action to change. But if LEO's and their organizations supported changing these policies, I'll bet they'd change in pretty short order.

Regards from AZ
 
Jeff,
I am glad you said there are bad apples in every profession. I get tired of sticking up for LEOs because of a few idiots. We get tired of the "bad apples" too (they make the job more dangerous than it has to be for all of us).

You stated three policies that are dividing us:
no knocks, asset forfieture and dumb firearm laws. I think these three policies support what I was saying. Who passes these policies? I, as an LEO, don't have any more control or less control over these than you do. LEO organizations? Give me a break, they are as political as the democrats or the republicans. My biggest b*tch lately is with the press, they do their best to brainwash the masses. Unfornately too many people think if something is on the evening news it must be true.

I have been getting discourged lately in what I have been seeing and reading.
I still think we have the best LEOs in the world. As a child I lived in a country that was a dictorship. The police were feared, it was the kind of place where the police came and took a relative away and you never saw them again. Are we there yet? No. Can we be there? I hope not. They only way to stop it is we all need to stick together, support each other and not blame each other.

Regarding no knocks: In eleven years as a LEO I have never been involved in a no knock or heard of one being used (I have worked in two large jurisdictions).

I am effected by dumb gunlaws just as you are. I admit as an LEO I can go down to my local gun shop buy hi caps IF I am buying them for work and I have my chiefs authorization. I have some handguns that I would like to buy hicaps but it isn't going to happen. We are not authorize to use "assault weapons" on the job, therefore, I can't get them.

I understand your frustation (and others) but we are just as frustated as you (if not more). I just get tired of the constant "cop bashing" on the pro RKBA sites.
As I said earlier we don't have anymore control over these policies than you do. We actualy have less, we are censored to an extent.

[This message has been edited by mrat (edited July 03, 2000).]
 
Instead of the good LEO's turning bad, why not choose a different profession? It would make target aquisition (sp?) so much easier... :D

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 
Mrat, I concur with Jeff. While it's PROBABLY not a conspiracy, reflect on this issue. If you really, really wanted to drive a wedge between the freedom-loving, gun-owning public and the (usually) freedom-protecting, gun-toting police, how would you do it? By assaulting the Constitution with the tactics Jeff described. Seems to be working. And while there are bad apples in every profession (lawyers leap to mind), I'm not likely to have my front door kicked in by a bad dentist, or get yanked out of my car by a seamstress with an attitude.

Please, Mrat, draw a distinction between the good guys, such as yourself, and the bad guys like the Maine ranger described above. A candid observation regarding a bad cop is no reflection on you, just as a criminal with a gun is no reflection on us here at TFL.
 
mrat,
I agree with Jeff...those three policies are trashing the public's image of law enforcement. One of my good friends is a policeman. I don't believe I know a more honorable and decent man than Tommy Hutto of the Faifax SC PD. But on the other hand, many years ago I was hit from behind in the head and left lying in the middle of a highway...temporarily paralyzed from the blow but not unconscious. This was in the early night about 10 PM. I can still remember the gravel crunching under a car's tires as it rolled by my head. Well, the next car was some friends and they hauled me off to the hospital. No one could figure out what happened to split my head open like that. The impact from falling off the bicycle occurred on the opposite side. Well, the mystery was solved several days later when Officer W***** F****, then of the Middle Georgia College Police Department, started bragging about the hippie he had "brained" to several of his fellow officers and some other college employees. One of whom was a friend of mine. Guess what? When asked about this every single one of his fellow officers lied.


Protecting the bad apples is also a very bad policy for law enforcement.

PS Name blanked out to protect the victim from the criminal.
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Byron Quick



[This message has been edited by Spartacus (edited July 03, 2000).]
 
MRat,

It may well be that this is a Liberal ploy, just like, I think, the poor educational system is used to produce unquestioning drones to pull the lever each election (it's even better than an outright dictatorship).

OTOH, I and my family members and friends have had many more unpleasant experiences with LEOs than positive, and no one I know has a record either.

Maybe, I'll tell you about the time the cop harrassed my mother and father sitting outside of a sandwich shop eating their sandwiches on a busy Friday night while my dad was waiting for his employees to close his business down the street.

Independence, MO has an anti-cruising ordinance aimed at cutting down on the awful summer evening traffic caused by bored kids riding up and down the Noland Rd. strip.

My parents are middle-aged and drive a nice car, nothing that you would suspect for causing trouble, yet some jerk cop writes them a loitering ticket for being parked outside the sandwich shop and eating sandwiches they had, obviously, purchased inside.

Sorry, but this was an obvious case of someone who feels that a badge and gun make up for a small ----. I have some LEOs in the family, but they fall into this category and, even better, they worked for the BATF.

I don't pay taxes to put up with sh_t like that.

I doubt that Liberals mind the loss of respect to the badge that much, as FEAR is an even better substitute.

Furthermore, I think the liberals are doing a great job of destroying public confidence in LEOs by hiring a large percentage of jerks, including those willing to point an MP-5 at a six year old.
 
Regarding Pthfndr's experience, I don't think he's being paranoid. You can't know what an officer intends until it's too late. One thing though, you don't have to answer any questions, even conversational ones:

"Nice gun. Is it new?"

"It was once. That's an interesting question. Why do you ask? Where do you stand on the RKBA?"

Regards,

Ledbetter

[This message has been edited by Ledbetter (edited July 03, 2000).]
 
As a former Police Officer, with a lot of friends that are still Police Officers let me say this;
1. Police Officers in general think that if you are not a police officer you are an a$$ hole. I said generaly speaking.
2. Off duty Police Officers generally don't want the hassle of initiating an investigation. On duty they usually want something handed to them, easy, little investigation, sure thing, easy in court.
No offense to any of the cops on this forum, but you all know what I'm talking about. One should always carry a "throw down" jelly donut. This way, when approched by an LEO, one can throw it one way and run the other.
 
Well, I am relatively young and I have a few friends that have become LEOs. Every one of them has the same characteristics. They were trouble making thugs in their high school and/or college years. They grew up watching movies like Die Hard and picture themselves as Bruce Willis' character, not Sheriff Andy Taylor. They became LEOs for action! I'll never trust a LEO that is my age or younger.
 
Either he was curious about where he could pick one up "new" for himself :) (probably not), or he was trying to bust your b@lls about it. Thats sad when you cant just enjoy safe, legal, shooting in the presents of a cop without him trying to mess with you about your guns. I bet 3 years ago he wouldnt have cared, you two, or three, counting your son would have a good time shooting. Its like how the cops used to sell guns to people, now they try to buy them back.
 
B. Shipley,
Wasn't Nolan Road the location where a little boy was initially carjacked from and dragged to death about 6 or 8 months ago?
I have relatives in Independence, and an aunt and uncle with three kids ranging from one year to six years. It's a very disturbing thought to consider that tragedy could just have easily happened to them as the unfortunate woman who watched her son getting dragged on the pavement as the carjacker escaped. If I remember, when the carjacker was caught (by citizens), he was in danger of being killed by a mob, but someone intervened by covering his head with their body.
 
Paranoid?? Probably not. You dont know the guy from Adam, so why trust him?? Cause he has a badge?? Cause he's a shooter?? None of the above reasons are good enough to earn trust. As with all people I met and greet I am civil, but I dont trust them as far as I can throw them. My trust is earned. Given the LEO tactics that we have heard of and sometimes seen, trusting someone with a badge, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, is a bad idea. Even the ACLU backs this notion. LEOs in general are not your friends. They are on the job 24/7. Heck some depts even demand that they act in given situations, felonies in progress... In Kalifornia, your situation is a felony is it not. So he may not have had a choice, but to ask the questions he asked if he wanted to keep his oath/job. Go with your instincts every time. If you get the heebie-jeebies, it is a lot better to err on the side of caution rather than regret it later. Who cares if you hurt the feelings of some stranger asking leading questions??

as for the conspiracy thing. The same thing applies to the civilian LEO relationship as does to the pro-gun anti-gun relationship. We all know that Columbine and such events are anomalies, yet our wonderful media friends make it seem as if it were regular events the gun crowd cheer about. I feel the same thing happens with the LEO prespective. The dramatic events are singled out and repeated over and over and over ad naseum.. Weather it is a conspiracy against a free society or just a happenstance of the ratings game is left to be determined. But as I said, it is better to err on the side of caution than be made a fool later.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
It seems to me that this particular LEO felt he was above the law.

He had a preban upper on a post ban lower. Gee, I wonder what he was doing? Could he have been commiting a felony?, damn right. But I guess since he was a LEO, the law didnt apply to him and he needed to give an honest citizen some s***.
 
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