Creepy moment at the range today in CA

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Pthfndr

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Went to the range today to shoot my FAL with my son (which some of you know as mcwarrior). The guy next to us was shooting an AR. I noticed it had a flash suppressor but no bayo lug and wondered if it was a Colt so I asked. He said it was a Colt upper, but on a BM competition lower. Hmmmm. During a trip down range to change targets I find out from my son that this guy is a Sacramento County Sheriffs deputy. So a bit later during a lull, this guy steps over and looks down at my FAL. He says "nice looking gun, to bad you can't buy those here anymore". Yep I said. He then says "that's looks new, did you just get it?" I told him no, I just keep my guns clean. But in my head bells and whistles were going off. My son and I headed down range then and I guess we both had the same thought because he asked me if I didn't think that was kind of a strange question of the deputy to ask. Maybe we were both just being paranoid, but when an LEO makes a comment about the type of rifle I'm shooting not being available here in CA anymore and then asking me if I just got it, well I felt just a wee bit uncomfortable with that. As mcwarrior said to me, it seemed to be some what of a leading question. I've often discussed the intricacies of pre vs post with other shooters, but never would I ask anyone if they just aquired a rifle that was no longer legal.

What do you think? Am I being overly suspicious and paranoid?
 
Paranoid?

In this political climate and considering the state that you live in?

I don't think so.

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 
Aww, not to worry. He was just doin' his job.

Everyone is suspect, and has to prove innocence beyond a preponderence of guilt. I'm surprised he didn't request bill of sale, something about probable cause. Gun looked new, gunholder was acting somewhat evasive, and suspicious...
After all, you were in the PRiK(Peoples Republik in Kalifornia) ;)

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
-----------------
"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, and destroy their rugged- ness.
Get control of all means of publicity, and thereby get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities.
Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance."

Vladimir Ilich Lenin, former leader of USSR

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited July 01, 2000).]
 
I agree, he was fishing. But they'd have to prove you got it recently, not the other way around, right?

On the other hand, we may not be the best group to ask about paranoia......

;)
 
You did leave shortly thereafter, right?

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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
OR he might have been loking for a gun to confiscate for his private collection?

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beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
It's quite simple.

An LEO, contrary to what some might believe is no different than anyone else. Some are pro-firearm, some are anti-firearm. I don't want to offend anyone, but they are not necessarily well educated. Furthermore, some don't even know the laws thoroughly or the technical nature of things. I once had one tell me that nothing interferes with radar (no, I wasn't trying to get out of a ticket, I just happen to be discussing the subject). Sure is strange, the million dollar set ups the military uses face weather related problems, but a cheap unit in a police car isn't according to the LEO I talked to. Just because someone is an LEO, doesn't mean he is better trained, more proficient, or any safer than anyone else with a firearm. Of course, the ignorant anti's feel good about LEO's being armed and no one else. Until they have to shoot someone defensively, and then they are hated too. They tell me I don't "need" more than 10 rounds, but "high capacity" magazines are available to law enforcement and other government agencies.

Sure, carrying receipts for firearms could show "when" they were purchased, but there is no federal law requiring that, and while I don't know about every place, my state and most other states don't require a dated receipt to accompany a firearm whereever it goes. Sure, it might be "convenient", but why should I be required to prove my innocence. Seems to me, if they think something might not be right, it should be their problem to prove otherwise.

A few weeks ago, I went to a range run by the state consevation department. It was one of those very supervised types. There were several guys shooting AR-15's there. I noticed while everyone was examining and changing targets, the consevation agent was walking to each lane with an AR-15 and examining them. At first I thought he just might be interested, but he walked down the line and looked at all of them. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but it seems he was looking for something. Perhaps a selector with an
automatic or burst postion, or something else "illegal". I guess it's getting to the point where some think having certain kinds of rifles is basis for probable cause to search.
 
You're not paranoid if 'they're' really after you. And, in CA? They're really after you.

Your 'bells and whistles' were set off by your good judgement and intuition.

If I keep reading threads like this, I may be a little more circumspect about my choice of ranges ...

Regards from AZ
 
Paranoid? Why should you be? This is a free country with a constitution to protect our rights isn't it?

When you left you did cover your liscense plates with mud didn't you?

RKBA!
 
You should have just invoked your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination and asked for your attorney.

I wonder what he would have done then? :)

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Guys, I think you are overreacting a bit. I think the guy was just interested in guns, he was at a range. When I go and shoot I compare guns with people and ask questions because I am interesting in guns not because I want to confiscate someone's gun. Most line LEOs (especially us "gun nuts") are not interested in confiscating guns from law abiding citizens.

beemerb,
I don't know if it was meant that way but I think your comment is just insulting.

Rharris,
You are right about LEOs and gun laws. I have read the Cali gun laws to see if my guns are now evil and you can't make heads or tails of some of these laws. I think this is done on purpose by the way, I think the politicos like to keep it vague.
 
Pthfndr,

I think my signature says it all....

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Remember, just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you!
 
What is insulting about the officer looking to confiscate the gun for himself?

With the War on Drugs (America), many LE agencies and a good number of their officers behave like pirates anyhow, confiscating property without due process under obscure admiralty laws fashioned in the time of Sir Francis Drake and the other Elizabethan privateers.

A large number of those so deprived have lost their property without so much as a conviction; many aren't even charged for lack of evidence (imagine that, you can lose property yet they have insufficient evidence to even CHARGE, let alone convict you). Of course, due process can be bought by spending beaucoup bucks on a lawyer and court costs to get the loot back.

One of our local prosecutors received a reprimand and investigation from the state for allowing family members to use cars seized in drug raids (no conviction, disbarment, of removal from office, of course).

Sorry, but where you live they must have higher standards for propriety among LEOs than in the rest of the world, where they resemble Mexican police, and their "tolls" and "speeding" tickets, more and more everyday.

The K.C. Star did a very good series of articles on confiscations about a month ago. I am now ashamed of our police force. Andy Taylor isn't sheriff anymore, it seems.

Don't ask my Mom about how she feels about the police. Being a five time robbery victim, she is used to the first question of the detective being "How much did you lose?" and the response of "we don't have anyone to send out, just give your statement to the officer at the scene." BFD. I think you get a detective only when you lose $10,000 or more.

Does this mean that there aren't some officers trying to do a good job and behaving with the utmost propriety? No, but they seem to be a minority nowadays.

Rant mode off.
 
Mrat,

The fact that Pathfinder felt the way he did at the question says volumes about how we feel about the "laws" and those appointed to "enforce" them, as well as the system used to determine guilt or innocence.

We don't know this LEO. We don't know if he is an Elitist fishing for a reason to bust another "Gun-nut".

The trust we once felt that REAL justice is served when REAL laws are broken has nearly bottomed out.

This is a MAJOR unintended consequence brought about by these "feel-good" laws that has been compounded by the committment of Project Exhile to enforce.

No, there was no over-reaction.


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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 
Not an over-reactiona at all. And nothing new. 15 years ago, I was at a large gravel pit testing a newly acquired surplus rifle. Since it was an FN-ABL (Model 49 Venezuelan 7mm) it had that 'mean, machine-gun look'.
As I let the barrel cool, an official looking car came roaring down the dirt track into the pit, and sprayed gravel in a sliding stop. A Maine Game Warden popped out. He wore ladder-laced jump boots, had a high SS crush on his hat, mirror shades, and a non-regulation N-frame (bet it was a .44 Mag?) in a non-regulation Border Patrol holster rig. A perfect example of your JBT.
He appoached and asked if I were '...shooting at those geese' (The pit was on a river bank.) I gestured to my target frames, targets, bench set-up and sandbags, and asked him 'What geese?' (There were no geese on the river.)
He then professed extreme interest in the FN. Is that an automatic? How many times can it fire? Show me!
I touched off a round, then worked the bolt to eject the empty. You see, I had disabled the gas mechanism in order to avoid chasing brass in the grass.
He made a face, climbed into the unit, and left in another spray of gravel.
Just one of our fine lawmen tryin' to do his job? Not hardly. I later found that this guy had ambitions, and cut corners constantly to up his body count. You can find such everywhere, and sometimes, unfortunately, in positions of trust and authority. It behooves us all to look out for them, and never give them an opening.

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
In today's climate, and most especially if I were in California, I would be paranoid about such an encounter. Had a young shooter at our range months back with a silenced Remington 700. I asked him casually if he had a Form 4 for it, but I'm not an LEO, and I was only looking to give advice if he didn't. We have more than enough reasons to be paranoid right now. It's reached the point where most of the
shooters at the range will give you their first names only. There's just a couple of guys whose last names I know.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
I shoot H&R's single shot rifles and a few M96 long-barrelled Mausers. At some ranges, these are oddities, especially the H&R's.

Lots of questions from shooters and Range Officers.

"What kinda gun is that?"
or
"Whut the Hale is that thang?" (Texas)
"What's the caliber?"
"Can I take a look?"

NEVER, in all these times, has anyone ever asked, "You just get it"?

Your suspicion is well-founded.

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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
About 8 years back, I was at the range with my son-in-law. I was shooting my Mini-14 I had at that time and he had his AR-15.
I was taking a turn with the AR-15 when some members of our local SWAT team came up, and literally ordered me off the range as they had to practice. As my son-in-law and I were the only ones at the range, and that there were 9 more benches I refused. Then one loud-mouth told tme that that "Civilian should not be allowed to own weapons like that." refering to the AR in my hands. My son-in-law was in the mens room at the time. I looked at him and said,"If civilians like me did not have weapons like this,(expletive deleted) like you would walk all over us civilians." When my son-in-law came out, and took over his rifle again, the guy climbs all over his backside as well. Well, Carlos won't take anything from anybody anyway, and he is LEO, so he put that guy in his place big time.
Let's face it, not all cops are buttholes, but this one sure was.
As they were "on duty" and in their black SWAT suits, I did get his number and I did complain. Still haven't heard a word, or an apology, and I don't figure I'll ever get one either.
Paul B.
 
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