Creeping anti-gun bias and general paranoia...

[SPEMack618]

Emory is where I got my Masters. And where my sister did some of her doctoral work.

For a school in the heart of Atlanta, it is very conservative in some regards.

 

[SHR970]

30+ round magazines for semi-auto guns why? We do not live in a war zone at least not yet. I haven't seen large hordes of wild pigs running my neighborhood which might need that many rounds.
Large capacity magazines or belt feed clips is what I conceder paranoid or ego.

Having a couple of 30 round mag.s for my M1 Carb. was very comforting during the Rodney King riots considering we had fires 2 blocks from my apt.

Yes they are legal to own and obtain and if you feel the need to have one then by all means knock your socks off.

Legal to obtain? I'm in Cali. ... not at all legal to obtain for many years and my grandfathered mags will not be legal to posess in less than a year. You paint with too broad a brush.

 

[Rancid]

In regard to lead poisoning in birds, remember that birds have a gizzard. When they ingest a fragment of lead it is ground up much like a piece of gravel and ends up in the organs, especially the liver. Two No. 6 lead pellets ingested by a duck will kill it. That is why lead shot was banned for hunting waterfowl.

In mammals, lead is not that big of an issue, but I always discard meat in and around a bullet hole. There is always a lot of talk about retained weight in bullets. Such as X brand of bullet retained 80% of it's weight when recovered. Well, where do you think the other 20% went? There are thousands of people walking around with lead bullets in their bodies with no ill effects. That is because a chunk of lead in basically inert unless it is melted (vapor) or ground into fine particles. Like any other foreign object, the body will try to encapsulate and isolate it.

 

[Ozzieman]

I knew that the world was ending and I was getting old when our president started pushing for gun companies to build “safe” guns.
When I saw that same president shooting a shotgun.
When our vice pres who is very much anti gun said to stick your shotgun out the doorway and fire into the air if you think your home is being broken into.
When lowering magazine capacity to 10 rounds because it will save lives.
When you could only sell an assault type rifle if it had a holed stock. See attached photo notice its NOT black.
When 22’s sold for 500$ for a box of 4000 IF you could find them (6months earlier I purchased the same case for 140$).
When the NRA became an evil, pro gun group.
When being a member of the NRA make you a crazy gun toting baby killer. (I was called that in a store parking lot when a woman saw my NRA sticker on my truck),
When someone was found to have an obscene amount of ammo. Several boxes of 9mm, and 200 rounds of 5.56. It was in our local paper.

His thesis was that the whole idea of the frontier being won with guns was a myth.

I guess the millions of buffalo died off because of a meteorite like the dinosaurs.

 

[Chaz88]

When you could only sell an assault type rifle if it had a holed stock. See attached photo notice its NOT black.

Doesn't that just make it a pistol grip? I thought that was one of the evil features.

 

[kilimanjaro]

No, it's a Thumbhole stock, not a pistol grip.

The next ban will be magazine-fed semiautomatic rifles and shotguns, no allowance for cosmetic distinctions without differences.

 

[44 AMP]

The "evil" banned pistol grip was defines as a "separate" or "conspicuously protruding" pistol grip in the various laws.

The thumbhole stock pictured was COMPLIANCE with the law,from our point of view, and a loophole to avoid the law, from their point of view.

 

[TimSr]

Quote:
I don't see the concern of lead poisoning as anti-gun or as anti-hunting


Considering the state of CA withheld damning study results showing that hunting projectiles had no impact on wildlife health or lead levels until after the relevant laws were passed, this concern is most certainly subterfuge of the anti-gun folks.

The thing to understand about antis is that they will never propose their entire agenda, because it would never fly. The mantra the last 7 years was "nobody is going to take your guns away", to take the focus off the fact that they would if they could, and somehow get you to put down your vigilance. These people are committed to a lifelong, and even generational pursuit of chipping away rights one tiny piece at a time so that you don't notice it, until it directly affects you, and by then, it's so deeply embedded that it's hard to fix. One small "reasonable" infringement at a time, in the phony interest of "public health and safety". They even manipulate the English language to further their deception. We could dedicate an entire thread to words and phrases they have fabricated, from "automatic weapons" to "gun violence" to "hands up don't shoot". We should be extremely skeptical of every proposal, and never take their word for it's purpose, because these people lie, cheat, and steal to achieve their goal of putting as many road blocks, burdens, and cost barriers in front of us.

 

[rickyrick]

It's not only guns, it's any leisure pursuit that you may find yourself willing to partake in.

The problem lies in the constitution when dealing with guns. That has slowed them down considerably. So they blame the NRA and gun owners.

The road to infringement has already been paved. Public opinion and safety both outweigh the constitution these days. Enough public opinion against guns, and they will be gone.

Gun control is about controlling the honest or semi honest citizens. Criminals can never be controlled until arrested.

 

[DaleA]

The thumbhole stock pictured was COMPLIANCE with the law, from our point of view, and a loophole to avoid the law, from their point of view.

Makes me think the whole debate just cries out for some adult supervision.

Note: adult supervision or "common sense" gun laws would result in the whole issue being discarded.

 

[Skans]

semi honest citizens.

I have to ask, what is a "semi-honest citizen"? Examples?

 

[44 AMP]

I have to ask, what is a "semi-honest citizen"? Examples?

I'd say that a "semi-honest" citizen is most of us. We obey all IMPORTANT moral laws, and most of the lesser government regulations, but do violate the ones we consider minor and inconvenient.

Like, say, speeding...

or having a drink with your son, home on leave, who, despite a full combat tour is still technically underage...

or handing a gun to a friend of 20+ years, and having him hand it back after checking it out, without going to an FFL dealer and having TWO background checks run....

 

[rickyrick]

Pretty much as 44amp says.

Lots of people fudge the rules, pencil whip an unimportant part of a report. Run a red light when no one is around or you think you can pull it off.
Drive 70mph when it's clearly posted as being 55mph. Right turn on red where its prohibited. Home improvements without permits. Tax fudging. could go on and on.

The above type people probably wouldn't commit murder, or rob a bank and probably wouldn't knowingly commit fraud or forgery to purchase a gun.

 

[buck460XVR]

I do wonder how generations of pioneers and frontiersmen survived when the majority of the meat they ate was harvested with lead bullets.

Could be one reason the expected life span of those folks was 20-30 years less than it is now. Since those folks all died from "natural causes" unless they were shot by Indians or run over by a stagecoach, how is it you know they did not suffer any effects from lead poisoning? Could be that those folks used cast lead that was less likely to fragment at the low velocities of the firearms used at that time than the soft expanding lead tips used in high velocity rifles today? Could it also have to do with the use of modern meat grinding equipment used today to make hamburger as opposed to the traditional butchering methods used by those pioneers and frontiersmen? Funny, back in those days, because of the lack of refrigeration, the use of Arsenic was a common way to preserve meat, I wonder why that is so frowned upon today? Maybe because we know better? Kinda like the historical use of lead arsenate insecticides. Such a shame we no longer use them too I suppose?

Its a simple set up, really, pick an arbitrary, extremely low level for the "allowable" contaminant, (in this case lead) then, when higher levels are found, create a panic about the danger, and get laws passed banning the offensive substance.

The thing is, with lead, the level was set many years ago and set fairly high. It's been found that much lower levels than those set can highly impact the development and mental capabilities of unborn children in the womb and young children. The reason lead based paint was banned is because of the fondness of children to chew on painted objects and how when scraped from surfaces it not only could be inhaled by those scraping it, but contaminate the soil it fell upon for centuries. Something those old Pioneers and Frontiersmen knew nuttin' about.

This is not paranoia, but being informed. Paranoia is wanting to ban all lead from projectiles. Being informed is knowing what risks are involved and how to avoid those risks. Too many folks have find it impossible to separate the two, and insist upon extreme measures. Then there's that reverse paranoia where folks find all kinds of far fetched reasons to not become informed about the obvious, and to leave things the way they are, even when there is plenty of proof. Like citing how uninformed folks 200 years ago did things. Kinda like smokers claiming their grandparents smoked two packs a day and lived to the ripe old age of 70. That certainly proves it's safe for all of us to smoke.....right?

Again, there's paranoia and there's being informed and practical. One also has to accept that there will be advantages/disadvantages of everything. While raptors can and are affected by the ingestion of lead, we can do things to reduce the chances they will come in contact with it. Like not leaving dead yote's with lead shot or bullet fragments lying where they die for the scavengers. Making more dedicated searches for lost game and taking higher percentage shots to reduce the chance of losing game. While it is probably impossible to keep all raptors/scavengers from ingesting small amount of lead, knowing the risks and taking moderate precautions can avoid much of it. Just like being careful when butchering game to reduce the chance of lead contaminating ground meat. It does not mean one needs to ban all lead projectiles. It means one needs to know what the risks are and not eat right up to the hole. No different than when CWD was found in deer. Folks were quick to jump on that "can't eat any deer anymore" paranoia bandwagon. But being careful how the animal is processed takes the risk away. One more example of paranoia vs being informed.

 

[44 AMP]

Kinda like smokers claiming their grandparents smoked two packs a day and lived to the ripe old age of 70. That certainly proves it's safe for all of us to smoke.....right?

For ALL of us? no, I'd say not. But the other side of the coin should be, but isn't equally valued.

There are people who never smoked, and get cancer. There are people who smoked and never got cancer. Grandfather smoked, died at 96, from renal failure, Mother didn't smoke, died at 52, from congestive heart failure. Dad smoked, died two weeks before his 67th birthday, from "complications due to diabetes".

Does this prove anything? I think so, #1) everybody dies of something, and #2) different people are different, and different things happen to them, even in the exact same environmental conditions.

And I do agree that many, many things are taken to foolish extremes.

Could be one reason the expected life span of those folks was 20-30 years less than it is now

Could be, but I tend to think that lead poisoning from eating game they shot is far from the top of the list of reasons. Living under generally much harsher environmental conditions, living a more physically demanding life, not having modern nutrition, vitamins, and particularly modern medical care I think had a greater impact on longevity than lead from bullets in their diet.

 

[buck460XVR]

And I do agree that many, many things are taken to foolish extremes.

...and that is generally what one considers paranoia. Which brings us back to the topic of Lead poisoning in the OP. One needs to be informed. One does not need to be paranoid, unless you are exposed to it under circumstances you cannot control. Just cause one is informed and takes the necessary precautions, does not make them paranoid. We touched on smoking and lung disease. Second hand smoke is something one needs to be informed about. As a lifetime non-smoker it is something that has always concerned me and I took precautions whenever I could to limit my exposure. Nowadays because of paranoia, I see my smoking friends having to feel like criminals by having to smoke outside, and a mile from everyone else. If ten years ago, had they been considerate to others and taken a few minor precautions to limit exposure to others, they may very well only have to smoke outside a 1/4 mile from everyone else. This is where I see lead projectiles..........

Could be, but I tend to think that lead poisoning from eating game they shot is far from the top of the list of reasons. Living under generally much harsher environmental conditions, living a more physically demanding life, not having modern nutrition, vitamins, and particularly modern medical care I think had a greater impact on longevity than lead from bullets in their diet.

Well, me too. Still we'll never know since there was no way for us to know. Does not mean we need to get paranoid about it, only that we understand there may have been an impact, even if it was very small. Seems anymore there is no middle ground, only one extreme or the other, driven because folks take no small precautions when they have a choice and then whine because there are no options, only regulations.

 

[Salmoneye]

Funny, back in those days, because of the lack of refrigeration, the use of Arsenic was a common way to preserve meat, I wonder why that is so frowned upon today?

I don't wish to take this too far off topic, but maybe you could give us a link to further information about the use of arsenic in preserving meat...

I am aware of the use of arsenic in embalming, and taxidermy in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but I have never heard of anyone using arsenic to preserve meat...

 

[44 AMP]

Second hand smoke is something one needs to be informed about.

Oh absolutely, however, the question is, is the information they give us actually the factual truth???

One night, back in the mid or late 80s, I was driving home after working swing shift, and listening to the radio, and on the all inclusive on the hour 5 minute newscast, I heard something rather interesting...

It was an "apology" from the govt printing office for a mistake they made in a recent publication. They said they had accidently swapped two different graphs in the report, so that it looked like you were at greater risk from second hand smoke aboard a transcontinental flight than you were from cosmic radiation. You were actually at greater risk from cosmic radiation, and they apologized for their error.

I listened to the newscasts for the next three hours, and that message was never repeated....

I'm not defending smoking, just saying that when agendas are involved, the information we get, what "everybody" knows (because its what we get told, over and over) might just be somewhat ...shaded...

Gun Control people do it all the time. I think it likely that other "Control" people do too....

 

[Ozzieman]

Note: adult supervision or "common sense" gun laws would result in the whole issue being discarded.

One good thing about a common sense law,, it would empty out Congress the senate and the white house.

and particularly modern medical care I think had a greater impact on longevity than lead from bullets in their diet.

Like the fact if you had an infected ingrown toe nail they amputated the leg with tools they butchered a hog with and if you were lucky they washed their hands first.

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm not defending smoking, just saying that when agendas are involved, the information we get, what "everybody" knows (because its what we get told, over and over) might just be somewhat ...shaded...

Gun Control people do it all the time. I think it likely that other "Control" people do too....

IMHO, everybody does it, not just the control people. Most of all the last ammo/gun shortages have been caused by paranoia and not fact. Paranoia driven by "shaded" info from gun owners and advocates. We scream that the other side does it all the time, while doing it ourselves.

Not only do we hear shaded info, we shade what we hear. It may be conscious or sub-conscious, but it is a fact. Ask any wife about her husbands selective hearing. Ask any turkey hunter who goes out in the dark on a spring morning. Over the sound of all the other animals in the woods waking up, the sounds he hears are the soft tree yelps of hens in the tree, or the faint gobbles of Toms in the distance. When we get home after the hunt, we hear turkey sounds form everything non-turkey. We scratch our plate with a fork eating dinner and it sounds lie a hen yelp. The neighbors dog barks and we jump cause it sounds like a gobble we swear we hear a spit drum, but it's only the kid next door with the loud bass speaker in his car again. We turn on the T.V. news and we turn the station that tells us what we want to hear.