Credit card gun registration
- Thread starter cdoc42
- Start date
ChimpMunk20
New member
This kind of BS is exactly what makes Bitcoin attractive. Untraceable & Completely out of their control. If the Clown Show keeps current pace Cripto will keep grabbing market share.
Recently a local gun shop has tacked on a 3.75% fee if you use your credit card for the purchase. I have not seen that anywhere else except for two small restaurants that do the same thing. My initial impression at the restaurant is the 20% tip that would have been given to the server will be dropped back to 15% rather than paying almost a fourth more for the meal and the only losers unfortunately will be the servers. Back to gun shops, the local who tacked the 3.75% used to charge less than a local Cabela's for powder, bullets, etc., but it might flip around that Cabela's will be less expensive unless they do the same thing.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
The merchants pay a fee for each credit card transaction. It used to be 3% but it may have gone up to 3.75%. So all that gun shop is doing is recouping the card processing fee so he makes as much on a credit card sale as he would on a cash sale.
At one time charging the fee to the customer was a violation of the card companies' terms of service, but that went away years ago. When that prohibition was in effect, there were a lot of merchants who priced everything to what they wanted to make, including the card fee -- and then offered a 3% discount if you paid in cash.
At one time charging the fee to the customer was a violation of the card companies' terms of service, but that went away years ago. When that prohibition was in effect, there were a lot of merchants who priced everything to what they wanted to make, including the card fee -- and then offered a 3% discount if you paid in cash.
The smartest woman in the room, Catherine Austin Fitts, former Under- Secretary of Housing under Bush 41 (and got persecuted for figuring out that HUD was nothing more than a money laundering operation), warns that CBDC (central bank digital currency) isn't currency but credit at the company store that gives the bankers total control over you (think Jason Bourne "account invalid" when he tries to use an ATM). To break the bankers, she suggested "all cash Friday" where all purchases you make on Friday are with cash. Now she's ramped it up to "cash all the time." I've been trying to do that especially with smaller mom 'n pop operations. Big stores or online of course it's credit card.
You can read more about her at Solari Reports.
You can read more about her at Solari Reports.
That's the ironic thing I had considered. Today all the scam websites require you to use Bitcoin or Zelle or other blackholes where your money just disappears. It would be funny if 5 years from now Bitcoin was the preferred way to buy guns because all the banks go overboard reporting "suspicious" activity.
For all those who think "crypto-currency" (under whatever name and scheme) is freedom, the wave of the future, and not being tracked, I hope the kool-aid at least tasted good.
If there is no person to person transfer of a physical item (paper currency, coin or precious metal/jewels) then it is being tracked. Everything done electronically is being tracked, or could be.
Ever notice that virtually every time someone says this, they never say HOW it will save lives?
I'm sorry, but I've reached the point in my life where general platitudes and nebulous speculation are no longer enough for me to accept a position as valid.
Explain to me HOW it will save lives, how the special tracking of credit card use at "gun stores" will do that, and I'll listen and evaluate your point.
Anyone on this forum almost certainly knows at least something about the legal requirements needed to purchase a firearm. The forms, the ID requirements, the background checks etc., all that applies, no matter what form of payment is used, even if you pay with actual cash.
By law, anyone "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms must have the Federal license(s) needed, as well as the various state licenses required to operate a business.
Yet another bit of "smoke and mirrors" it seems to me. Note "could" and not "would" or "will", for one. And, I'd really like an explanation of how tracking that some one spent $$$ via their credit card at Joe's Gun Shop could identify a straw purchase in any way that existing paperwork data does not.
"unlawful bulk purchases"??? is this a joke???
correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dealers required to report "lawful" bulk purchases???
and, doesn't the 5th amendment generally prevent a requirement in law to report unlawful (illegal) activity?? (or, at least prevent prosecution for failure to report such activity?)
I am constantly reminded of when I saw Biden (then VP) asked about why so few people were being prosecuted for lying on the fed 4473 form. His answer was "We don't have time for that".
Is this "wonderful" new "first step" simply be one more thing the govt doesn't "have time for"???
RIght now, I'm thinking it will be. Private companies collecting data, for their business, is their business. For any other use, isn't it a breach of trust (at a minium) and could be a breach of contract, or even a violation of law.
I don't have a dog directly in this fight, I've never used a credit card to buy a firearm and I'm never going to. For me, its about principles, and the operative principle here is that private companies can do anything that they want, if you agree to it, within the framework of existing law.
thoughts?
If there is no person to person transfer of a physical item (paper currency, coin or precious metal/jewels) then it is being tracked. Everything done electronically is being tracked, or could be.
Ever notice that virtually every time someone says this, they never say HOW it will save lives?
I'm sorry, but I've reached the point in my life where general platitudes and nebulous speculation are no longer enough for me to accept a position as valid.
Explain to me HOW it will save lives, how the special tracking of credit card use at "gun stores" will do that, and I'll listen and evaluate your point.
Anyone on this forum almost certainly knows at least something about the legal requirements needed to purchase a firearm. The forms, the ID requirements, the background checks etc., all that applies, no matter what form of payment is used, even if you pay with actual cash.
By law, anyone "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms must have the Federal license(s) needed, as well as the various state licenses required to operate a business.
Yet another bit of "smoke and mirrors" it seems to me. Note "could" and not "would" or "will", for one. And, I'd really like an explanation of how tracking that some one spent $$$ via their credit card at Joe's Gun Shop could identify a straw purchase in any way that existing paperwork data does not.
"unlawful bulk purchases"??? is this a joke???
correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dealers required to report "lawful" bulk purchases???
and, doesn't the 5th amendment generally prevent a requirement in law to report unlawful (illegal) activity?? (or, at least prevent prosecution for failure to report such activity?)
I am constantly reminded of when I saw Biden (then VP) asked about why so few people were being prosecuted for lying on the fed 4473 form. His answer was "We don't have time for that".
Is this "wonderful" new "first step" simply be one more thing the govt doesn't "have time for"???
RIght now, I'm thinking it will be. Private companies collecting data, for their business, is their business. For any other use, isn't it a breach of trust (at a minium) and could be a breach of contract, or even a violation of law.
I don't have a dog directly in this fight, I've never used a credit card to buy a firearm and I'm never going to. For me, its about principles, and the operative principle here is that private companies can do anything that they want, if you agree to it, within the framework of existing law.
thoughts?
This goes hand in hand with UPS and FedEx policies not to ship guns unless there is an FFL involved on BOTH ends. The administration can't get the anti gun legislation they want passed in Congress or supported by the Supreme Court, so they pressure businesses to discriminate against gun owners for them.
It's not new, see Operation Choke Point.
It's not new, see Operation Choke Point.
There seems to be little distinction between business and government when the government strong arms a business into doing something. The government thinks it is ok to get a business to do something that would be unconstitutional if the government did it.
Pretty much the definition of the economic system called Fascism, or at least two of them:
fascism
noun
1 A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2 A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
3 Oppressive, dictatorial control.
I have a small business that accepts credit and debit cards, and that is correct.
Another thing to consider when you use plastic at a small business. The bank is taking 3 percent of the gross, not the net, income. When small family businesses - or any really - are operating on small margins of 10% or 20%, banks are taking not 3 percent, but 16 to 33 percent of the profit. Just for processing the transaction! You are doing your favorite local gun shop a really big favor by running to the ATM for cash rather than using a card at their register.
(This is a pet peeve of mine, because card transactions have increased in the last 20 years or so from 10 percent of my dollar volume to well over 90 percent. That is money and power we are giving to the big banks with every transaction.)
One thing I've pondered as I grow older is the neglect of my offspring to carry cash and to rely on either credit card purchases or "emergency" trips to the ATM machines. Basically, in my mind, it's because they haven't been comfortable managing their money, but they don't often recognize that each trip to the ATM reduces their disposable income compared to keeping that multiple each week in an envelope in the kitchen drawer.
But maybe this is a time where cultural changes occur that we don't even appreciate, that will lead back to the days when my mother went to the clothing store and made a payment, had her participation card punched, and bought what she needed or wanted once the card was fully punched.
Truly, necessity is the mother of invention.
But maybe this is a time where cultural changes occur that we don't even appreciate, that will lead back to the days when my mother went to the clothing store and made a payment, had her participation card punched, and bought what she needed or wanted once the card was fully punched.
Truly, necessity is the mother of invention.
Been thinking on this quite a bit. Told the wife last night I reckon I would be going through my LGS for everything and using cash. Then I thought...
Hmmm, maybe this is not about a backdoor registration at all. The powers that be, knowing we are a bunch that clings to our right to privacy, is getting the exact reaction they want. Maybe this is, rather, a backdoor to shut down online businesses in the firearms industry. So, if we stop using credit cards and ordering online, those businesses will have to shut down. This has been a motive for quite a while. There has been a 500% increase in dealers losing their FFLs under this "administration" through the ATF basically taking licenses away for any small infraction. Is this just another way to shut more FFLs down?
I myself, will keep doing business with those merchants. They can have their little list and pound sand. To tell you the truth, we are all probably on a list somewhere, anyway.
Just food for thought.
Hmmm, maybe this is not about a backdoor registration at all. The powers that be, knowing we are a bunch that clings to our right to privacy, is getting the exact reaction they want. Maybe this is, rather, a backdoor to shut down online businesses in the firearms industry. So, if we stop using credit cards and ordering online, those businesses will have to shut down. This has been a motive for quite a while. There has been a 500% increase in dealers losing their FFLs under this "administration" through the ATF basically taking licenses away for any small infraction. Is this just another way to shut more FFLs down?
I myself, will keep doing business with those merchants. They can have their little list and pound sand. To tell you the truth, we are all probably on a list somewhere, anyway.
Just food for thought.
Jim Watson
New member
Just out of consideration for local merchants' bottom lines, I often pay cash, check, or debit to spare them the credit card fees.
Internet, mail, or phone orders just about have to go on a card, although I have had a couple of places trusting enough to bill me and take a check.
It is not a question of getting on a list, I am sure they have a dossier on me at least since 1969 when I bought my first gun under GCA68, it is the restraint of trade. Repressive government and "influencers" are jawboning banks and common carriers into making things tough for gun owners and vendors.
Internet, mail, or phone orders just about have to go on a card, although I have had a couple of places trusting enough to bill me and take a check.
It is not a question of getting on a list, I am sure they have a dossier on me at least since 1969 when I bought my first gun under GCA68, it is the restraint of trade. Repressive government and "influencers" are jawboning banks and common carriers into making things tough for gun owners and vendors.
It's not just for processing the transaction. Those costs go to Visa / Mastercard, and they are only a penny or two per transaction. (They make it up in volume. A penny or two per transaction adds up when you handle a billion transactions a day).
The 3% goes to the bank that issued the card and covers all the money the banks lose through fraud and non-payment, among other things.
Just to put it in perspective, how much would it cost a business to offer credit to every customer who walked in the door?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peo...44f7ff1c04b77bbf26daf97ada519&category=foryou
"Who decides what's suspicious?"
Well, that was my question when I first heard about the credit card folk keeping track of guns and when I saw the headline of the article I thought the article would answer that question.
I was disappointed.
The article tried to find out but that piece of information has not been worked out yet.
Yeah, who would have thought it.
I suspect had they told us what they were going to consider 'suspicious' there would have been A LOT MORE RESISTANCE to this scheme.
Once again, right now, there is no standard for 'suspicious' activity.
99% of my firearms/related items bought at stores are with cash. However, there is only one legitimate FFL in our city (small), with a very small section in a local storefront. Not realistic to expect him to carry alot of differing items, and am willing to bet he makes more off of transfer fees than bought in store firearms.
The next closest stores with large selection and decent reloading supplies are 1.5 hrs drive. Without website ordering with credit card, would be extremely limited in kinds/types of firearms purchased. Over 95 % of personal reloading supplies is ordered off website.
The next closest stores with large selection and decent reloading supplies are 1.5 hrs drive. Without website ordering with credit card, would be extremely limited in kinds/types of firearms purchased. Over 95 % of personal reloading supplies is ordered off website.
The credit card companies are just middlemen between the banks (the lender) and the consumer (the borrower). Once they have accepted the new category for gun store sales they are done - they are just categorizing sales for the banks.
I seriously doubt anyone is or will be using the sales in this new category for tracking your gun ownership as that information is not contained in the sales information. Too many stores, too many products, too many guns. That wasn't the purpose - I believe the real purpose is more clever.
The next step in this scheme is for the woke politicians, companies, and organizations to pressure the banks to deny credit for purchases at the small local gun shops and internet companies who pretty much sell only guns and gun related products. The can't deny credit sales to the large department and sporting goods stores as they have too many products, sales, and power, but the little guys are helpless and easy targets. They can't stop all gun sales, but they can seriously hurt the small independent LGS and internet trade enough to drive many of them out of business. Not a total victory, but another meaningful step toward their goal.
Once they have driven a good chunk of gun sales into a fewer number of large public chain stores they can turn their pressure on them as well, forcing them to use the new category for all sales from their gun department. Since SCOTUS has turned against them they must use the power of large companies, the press, and public opinion in their battle.
Okay I admit this all sounds a bit conspiracy theory-ist, but it is worth watching.
I seriously doubt anyone is or will be using the sales in this new category for tracking your gun ownership as that information is not contained in the sales information. Too many stores, too many products, too many guns. That wasn't the purpose - I believe the real purpose is more clever.
The next step in this scheme is for the woke politicians, companies, and organizations to pressure the banks to deny credit for purchases at the small local gun shops and internet companies who pretty much sell only guns and gun related products. The can't deny credit sales to the large department and sporting goods stores as they have too many products, sales, and power, but the little guys are helpless and easy targets. They can't stop all gun sales, but they can seriously hurt the small independent LGS and internet trade enough to drive many of them out of business. Not a total victory, but another meaningful step toward their goal.
Once they have driven a good chunk of gun sales into a fewer number of large public chain stores they can turn their pressure on them as well, forcing them to use the new category for all sales from their gun department. Since SCOTUS has turned against them they must use the power of large companies, the press, and public opinion in their battle.
Okay I admit this all sounds a bit conspiracy theory-ist, but it is worth watching.
Last edited:
Tom, the only difference between a conspiracy and truth right now is a little bit of time.
Makes sense to me. It is hard to get into the mind of evil manipulators. Rational and decent folks could not even fathom the big picture, because we don't think like that.
"World ain't what it seems is it, Gunny? You keep that in mind. The moment you think you got it figured, you're wrong" Levon Helms, Shooter