Credit card gun registration

C

cdoc42

New member
I've just read that Visa, American Express, and Mastercard plan to separate gun purchases in their records so it is easier to track those who made the purchase.

Will that cause a movement to change to a card that does not do that tracking?

Will we see current cardholders rise up and complain that the policy invades personal privacy?

Will the NRA and/or other gun owner associations complain to sue it is illegal to track these purchases on the basis that it is a gun registration scheme?

Will people just change purchase arrangements and pay cash rather than using credit cards?
 
IMHO, it will cause more of a push to move back to cash and barter. Gun owners are a pretty suspicious lot to begin with, and I think most of us know that all of our credit card transactions are logged or tracked in some manner. Moreover, a great many gun owners prefer to deal in cash/barter to begin with, for that simple reason.

With that said, while we might complain, the credit card companies are (likely) based in major urban centers, where support for gun control is strongest. Such complaints would likely fall on deaf ears.

As for a registry, the credit card company should not (again, should not) know what kind of gun I buy with a credit card, or even if it's a gun. At least not until they break it down a little further. As I understand it, they're rewriting transaction codes for gun stores, but how will the credit card company know if I've bought $500 worth of ammo or a $500 gun?
 
Spats McGee said:
As for a registry, the credit card company should not (again, should not) know what kind of gun I buy with a credit card, or even if it's a gun. At least not until they break it down a little further. As I understand it, they're rewriting transaction codes for gun stores, but how will the credit card company know if I've bought $500 worth of ammo or a $500 gun?
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I suspect the purpose of this tracking would be to establish that you probably have guns and enough probable cause should the government decide to raid you for your guns.
 
ATN082268 said:
I suspect the purpose of this tracking would be to establish enough probable cause should the government decide to raid you for your guns.
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Agreed, and LE can get a search warrant for the credit card company's records. They may or may not notify the cardholder of such a search.
 
How can a credit transaction differentiate between purchased items. I visit Bass Pro (example only): I purchase a new rod and reel, 7 candy bars, 3 dog treats and a Remington Nylon 66. How does the credit card company filter out the firearm? Well, henceforth cash IS king!
 
How can a credit transaction differentiate between purchased items. I visit Bass Pro (example only): I purchase a new rod and reel, 7 candy bars, 3 dog treats and a Remington Nylon 66. How does the credit card company filter out the firearm?
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How are they going to do it? Badly, I suspect. :rolleyes:

I don't know the inner workngs and classifications credit card companies use, only that, thanks to the news reports there is a "General Merchandise" class, and they are now going to put firearms purchases into a different group.

They I think they could / do have access to every individual item you purchase with your card, if they dig for it and I think a warrant could go that far, but what we get from our banks is "a card purchase for $$$ at XXXX" is enough for our usual needs.

They COULD go through every single item you purchase and then put the firearms (and maybe ammo??) you bought into a separate category, OR they could just take the cheaper route and put every penny you spent at Bass Pro into the firearms category, because they sell guns....

Remember that this is an internal accounting method used by the credit card companies, and may be nothing more than "virtue signaling".

I don't see this as something that will cause an uprising or backlash against credit card companies, let alone any kind of boycott to make a point. The damn things are just too useful in too big a part of our lives.

If it bothers you, use cash.
Then they'll just track you for withdrawing cash...:rolleyes::D
 
I have a few credit cards, Discover, Mastercard, Visa and have noticed that most of them are covered by Citibank. :eek: Citibank is well known for their anti-gun, anti-hunting stance so what they're planning is no surprise. The big surprise is it took them so long to get around to it.
Paul B.
 
44 AMP said:
How are they going to do it? Badly, I suspect. :rolleyes:
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44 AMP wins the internet today.

44 AMP said:
....They I think they could / do have access to every individual item you purchase with your card, if they dig for it and I think a warrant could go that far, but what we get from our banks is "a card purchase for $$$ at XXXX" is enough for our usual needs.
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I don't think this is quite correct. I've dug through a few financial fraud files and if memory serves: (a) the store has transaction information down to the individual items; but (b) the credit card company just gets a total $$ amount to approve or decline. It's up to the detectives to match the numbers. Then again, my sample size is very small, so take it FWIW.
 
According to APNews they initially plan to track purchases at “gun shops” under a new merchant code; not necessarily items purchased. In parenthesis because I’m not sure what constitutes a gun shop: Cabelas? Walmart? Academy Sports?

Disclaimer: the anti-2nd amendment verbiage in the linked article is hard to stomach.
 
they initially plan to track purchases at “gun shops” under a new merchant code
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Yes, and this plan is less about tracking guns to the end-user as it is harassing gun shops. Credit card processing is difficult and expensive for smaller businesses, and my guess is the fees will skyrocket for that particular merchant code.
 
Once they put something in its own special group, and removing it from general merchandise, all kinds of special requirements and fees can be added, without affecting general business. No doubt special, additional fees will be justified as needed to pay for the extra expense of maintaining the special group.

IT is like this with all things, permit fees, license fees, only get charged to those who get them. No one else cares what they cost, since they don't use whatever the license is for.

I don't have a boat, so I don't care what it costs you to license your boat. Raise the boat fee all you want, I don't care.

BUT raise my car tabs? THAT I care about!!.
(can't seem to DO much about them, but I DO care! :rolleyes:)
 
I don't think the Constitution guarantees any right to keep and bear boats.

Yes, I know -- the Constitution constrains (allegedly) the government, and banks aren't the government.
 
Does anybody know what the 'trigger' (pun intended) point is for the credit card companies to notify the 'authorities'...and which authorities would they notify, local cops, ATF...inquiring minds.
 
Just knowing that you purchased some unknown items at a sporting goods or gun shop doesn't do anyone much good. I believe they created the new code under pressure from woke organizations who will now pressure banks who, in turn, will likely soon begin declining such charges. After all, "If we just save one child".
 
Heard on the news that the new codes will not apply to big box stores, only dedicated gun stores. Likely a way to harass mom and pop gun stores with new scrutiny and higher fees as noted above.
 
Well, that didn't take long. Letter from Senate Democrats (Lead by Warren):
The creation of a new MCC for gun and ammunition retail stores would be the first step towards facilitating the collection of valuable financial data that could help law enforcement in countering the financing of terrorism efforts. A new MCC code could make it easier for financial institutions to monitor certain types of suspicious activities including straw purchases and unlawful bulk purchases that could be used in the commission of domestic terrorist acts or gun trafficking schemes.18 Such coordination between financial institutions and law enforcement has been instrumental in efforts across the federal government to identify and prevent illicit activity.
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https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/combinepdf (2).pdf
 
I think this is virtue signaling, "look, we're doing something", with zero end effect. So, Ibin Fahrten orders a case of ARs from Joe's Gun Shop using his American Express. Ah Ha! We gotcha! C'mon. As has been noted here and on other forums, everything electronic is tracked. Who hasn't walked out of a little shop and received a, "How was Josie's Knickknacks" message? For all the hand waving, we are still a nation of laws. Those media folk are selling soap, literally, and it's so competitive they have to "out-outrage" the other guy. Relax, load a few rounds, and go to the range.
 
Interview with the instigator

Well here is an interview with:
Priscilla Sims Brown-Amalgamated Bank CEO
and she is apparently the corporate bigwig that pushed for and got this procedure implemented.

Here interview is with CNBC and her interviewer makes no bones about it...he is TOTALLY in favor of keeping track of who buys guns and a cheerleader for the new procedure.

That said, he asks some valid questions, (something I did NOT think he would do) so let's give him credit for that!

What do the financial institutions do with the data?
They report it to FinCEN which is a department of the Treasury.

What does FinCEN do with the data?
They will contact FBI or local police if they think there is a problem.

Won't people just buy guns with cash?
Well, we (the Priscilla Sims Brown) can only do so much. She says that hopefully if someone shows up with say, $10,000 and buys a lot of guns the gun store own would report them to the local authorities.

Oh, Priscilla Sims Brown says 'I think this will save lives' and claims 'we do not track, tracking is illegal'.

I refuse to try to make sense out of this pile of illogical thinking. I'm just providing this information.

The interview is here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...57f9710844c01b109c4c5fc6968ab&category=foryou
 
Tom Servo wrote: Yes, and this plan is less about tracking guns to the end-user as it is harassing gun shops. Credit card processing is difficult and expensive for smaller businesses, and my guess is the fees will skyrocket for that particular merchant code.
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Yes, as Spats mentioned, an upward trend of cash purchases is likely - maybe the small shops will further increase the price difference between cash and credit purchases. I still wonder how they'll determine which shops are "gun shops" if there isn't a "gun" in the business name. Business licenses, maybe? I suspect we'll see fewer new businesses open as "Joe's Gun Shop" and more open as "Joe's General Goods" that also stocks some MREs or some such.
 
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